Generic Virus Thread

[villakram]

16 hours ago, bickster said:

Thanks, didn't see it, was reacting to the post. Did they realise that the population is 66 mil and there are only 52 weeks in a year and everyone needs two doses and they don't know how long the vaccination lasts?

Thought not

The over 60-65s + the immuno-suppressed + healthcare workers + police are the only people who *need* to take the vaccine. This number is much less than 66m and consistent with the annual flu program numbers. Stop with the alarmism.

[bickster]

18 minutes ago, villakram said:

The over 60-65s + the immuno-suppressed + healthcare workers + police are the only people who *need* to take the vaccine. This number is much less than 66m and consistent with the annual flu program numbers. Stop with the alarmism.

Well your going to have an awful lot of extra dead people and lots lots more who will not go out until they get a vaccine. Just because you think it isn't needed the silent vast majority in the UK who are obeying the current rules and want restrictions to be kept in place (most polls on the subject confirm this) still won't be going out to do those "normal" things we all miss until they get a vaccine.

If your scenario were true, which I don't accept for one minute then I suspect there will be an awful lot of companies who will pay for their workforce to have the vaccine because it will pay for itself rather quickly. How many staff will pull an extra two weeks holiday once a year! In the UK the top ten in priority already goes down to 50 years of age, so even this useless government recognises you're talking nonsense

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, villakram said:

The over 60-65s + the immuno-suppressed + healthcare workers + police are the only people who *need* to take the vaccine. This number is much less than 66m and consistent with the annual flu program numbers. Stop with the alarmism.

Thanks. If you don't mind I'll listen to what the scientists say about who needs to take a vaccine if that's OK. 

[villakram]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

Well your going to have an awful lot of extra dead people and lots lots more who will not go out until they get a vaccine. Just because you think it isn't needed the silent vast majority in the UK who are obeying the current rules and want restrictions to be kept in place (most polls on the subject confirm this) still won't be going out to do those "normal" things we all miss until they get a vaccine.

If your scenario were true, which I don't accept for one minute then I suspect there will be an awful lot of companies who will pay for their workforce to have the vaccine because it will pay for itself rather quickly. How many staff will pull an extra two weeks holiday once a year! In the UK the top ten in priority already goes down to 50 years of age, so even this useless government recognises you're talking nonsense

Who is dying, who is ending up the most sick. We know this and hence should prioritize accordingly, e.g., children do not need the vaccine.

Prioritization matters. You are being unnecessarily alarmist.

[bickster]

It's. Not. Just. About. Death

[chrisp65]

1 hour ago, villakram said:

The over 60-65s + the immuno-suppressed + healthcare workers + police are the only people who *need* to take the vaccine. This number is much less than 66m and consistent with the annual flu program numbers. Stop with the alarmism.

Off the top of my head:

What about people on jury service?

What about the guy that fixes taps in prisons?

What about the guy at the door of the nightclub or the races or the gig?

There will be a thousand jobs that put people in direct contact with a thousand people.

Then all those people go home and do the shopping for their arthritic mum.

 

[HanoiVillan]

The government's current plan is 10 tiers of people, including everyone over 50, everyone in a medical job, and everyone in a high-risk category. We will see after they have finished all of those people whether the virus is still a threat, and if there is an appetite for doing more, but I suspect the impetus and momentum will be flagging by the time we get to people who almost certainly won't get very sick anyway.

EDIT: I guess what I'm trying to get at is, if I had to bet, it will eventually be available to nearly everyone, but that take up might be quite slow/not very comprehensive in less at-risk groups.

Edited November 24, 2020 by HanoiVillan

[chrisp65]

It will be interesting to see what punishments are contrived by the people that felt students were the root cause.

if students should be kicked off their courses for spreading virus, sack anyone in a job that refuses a vaccine, stop the benefits of anyone that refuses a vaccine.

Make them travel at set times on public transport.

They should also wear a bell around their neck and be made to chant ‘small heath health standards, small heath health standards’.

 

[Genie]

I might be wrong @chrisp65 but I’m detecting you might still upset about the suggestion some weeks ago that students who acted incredibly irresponsibly causing a huge rampage of the virus in their University should be removed from the course... 

[bickster]

9 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

It will be interesting to see what punishments are contrived by the people that felt students were the root cause.

if students should be kicked off their courses for spreading virus, sack anyone in a job that refuses a vaccine, stop the benefits of anyone that refuses a vaccine.

Make them travel at set times on public transport.

They should also wear a bell around their neck and be made to chant ‘small heath health standards, small heath health standards’.

 

My only objection about students was that the academic year was allowed to start, it's not their fault what happened, it was inevitable as anyone who has been through Uni or worked close to that environment would understand instantly

[chrisp65]

2 minutes ago, Genie said:

I might be wrong @chrisp65 but I’m detecting you might still upset about the suggestion some weeks ago that students who acted incredibly irresponsibly causing a huge rampage of the virus in their University should be removed from the course... 

 

Upset would be the wrong word.

Still curious about the ‘need’ to punish specific groups perceived to be the cause of a problem.

The logic would surely suggest that if students were the problem, potentially allowing groups to remain contagious would make those people the new problem, so a similar punishment regime would be called for.

Double standards interest me. If my friends set me up as a PPE company, handed me a million pound contract and I didn’t deliver, the police would be around my house before the weekend. Unless I know the right people.

[chrisp65]

13 minutes ago, bickster said:

My only objection about students was that the academic year was allowed to start, it's not their fault what happened, it was inevitable as anyone who has been through Uni or worked close to that environment would understand instantly

But again ‘students’ is a big ol’ body of people. No new nurses or dentists for a year or two? Are we sure we want to do that?

Plenty of outbreaks in food processing plants, should we close down food factories?

There are Uni’s that have proven it’s perfectly possible to function without being the local Cholera Well.

 

So, for instance on a quick random google:

University of Bedfordshire: 15,000 students

Current covid status: 1 member of staff, 8 students

Should they be closed down and sent home?

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by chrisp65

[bickster]

2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

There are Uni’s that have proven it’s perfectly possible to function without being the local Cholera Well.

I very much doubt these are large Metropolitan Universities, hell round here even Edge Hill Teacher Traing College sorry University couldn't manage it in Ormskirk.

Nursing / Medicine is possibly an exception but an awful lot of courses could have been studied at home to be perfectly honest (especially in the Arts).

On the one hand we don't want anyone's grannie getting it but on the other we want to throw first years students into Halls of Residence where what happened was inevitable

[Genie]

1 minute ago, chrisp65 said:

The logic would surely suggest that if students were the problem, potentially allowing groups to remain contagious would make those people the new problem, so a similar punishment regime would be called for.

I don’t think students were THE problem, but they were A problem.

On one end of the problem scale you’ve got the Stanley Johnson’s who apparently didn’t realise they should be wearing a mask. Then at the other end of the scale large group last of people jumping around, arms in arms, singing and shouting in the street of a major city which is already on its knees with a critical number of cases causing a huge spread within the university.

If a percentage of people decide not to have the vaccine, depending on the amount then it possibly won’t make much difference and certainly not on the scale of the behaviour that infected thousands across universities/cities.
If people want to take the chance with their own health then I expect you can’t force them to have the vaccine but it’s not the same as what we saw in the summer.

 

 

[chrisp65]

Just now, Genie said:

I don’t think students were THE problem, but they were A problem.

On one end of the problem scale you’ve got the Stanley Johnson’s 

But that’s exactly my point, plenty of people suggested punishments for students.

I didn’t see anyone suggest punishments for pensioners or the rich or landlords or factory workers.

[chrisp65]

3 minutes ago, bickster said:

I very much doubt these are large Metropolitan Universities, hell round here even Edge Hill Teacher Traing College sorry University couldn't manage it in Ormskirk.

Nursing / Medicine is possibly an exception but an awful lot of courses could have been studied at home to be perfectly honest (especially in the Arts).

On the one hand we don't want anyone's grannie getting it but on the other we want to throw first years students into Halls of Residence where what happened was inevitable

... and that’s my point, why suggest universally stopping the academic year as a knee jerk, then go on to say there could be geographical or subject matter exceptions.

I’m just fascinated how this one group has been labelled. One size fits all, job done, next problem...

131 universities in the UK

119 have reported some sort of case or cases, and that includes places that have literally had half a dozen cases in 10,000 students.

12 have had no covid.

Close them all down for a year or two?

Fine, but close every single business, shop, transport network, sports club and farm that have also reported a case.

 

 

[sharkyvilla]

46 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

The government's current plan is 10 tiers of people, including everyone over 50, everyone in a medical job, and everyone in a high-risk category. We will see after they have finished all of those people whether the virus is still a threat, and if there is an appetite for doing more, but I suspect the impetus and momentum will be flagging by the time we get to people who almost certainly won't get very sick anyway.

EDIT: I guess what I'm trying to get at is, if I had to bet, it will eventually be available to nearly everyone, but that take up might be quite slow/not very comprehensive in less at-risk groups.

Have they said anything about other key workers?  I'm no hero as I've only been making bread but I've been working throughout and just reckon people like us deserve to be bumped up the list a bit.  

[Davkaus]

58 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Off the top of my head:

 

What about the guy at the door of the nightclub or the races or the gig?

 

 

That guy's a prick, no vaccine for him.

[bickster]

5 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

... and that’s my point, why suggest universally stopping the academic year as a knee jerk, then go on to say there could be geographical or subject matter exceptions.

I’m just fascinated how this one group has been labelled. One size fits all, job done, next problem...

131 universities in the UK

119 have reported some sort of case or cases, and that includes places that have literally had half a dozen cases in 10,000 students.

12 have had no covid.

Close them all down for a year or two?

Fine, but close every single business, shop, transport network, sports club and farm that have also reported a case.

 

 

Businesses just aren't comparable to academic cohorts in the thousands per university that live, work and play with each other (Kenneth required) 24/7

[Follyfoot]

59 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

It will be interesting to see what punishments are contrived by the people that felt students were the root cause.

if students should be kicked off their courses for spreading virus, sack anyone in a job that refuses a vaccine, stop the benefits of anyone that refuses a vaccine.

Make them travel at set times on public transport.

They should also wear a bell around their neck and be made to chant ‘small heath health standards, small heath health standards’.

 

one hand for wiping and picking and  one hand for food preparation based on the number of fingers on each