Generic Virus Thread

[NurembergVillan]

2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Or Canada I imagine

Vancouver was incredible, but SO far away and SO expensive.  Once I quit my job there was no way I could afford to stay there with another role, or doing what I'm doing now.

Germany had everything, really.  I was eroding the language barrier too, so once I'd got fluent it'd been fine.  Think I went there too young and in the wrong relationship.

[Demitri_C]

1 minute ago, NurembergVillan said:

He was good. He was a really good PM.  The Iraq War was a mess, but people have discarded everything else he achieved.

While we're on it, though, more NHS workers have died in the last 6 weeks than British service personnel during 8 years of war in Iraq.

Sorry mate but your comparing a global pandemic to a lying tyrant who took our troops to a war that wasnt needed?

 

[HanoiVillan]

1 minute ago, NurembergVillan said:

He was good. He was a really good PM.  The Iraq War was a mess, but people have discarded everything else he achieved.

While we're on it, though, more NHS workers have died in the last 6 weeks than British service personnel during 8 years of war in Iraq.

I mean, the best estimates are that roughly a million Iraqis died as a result of the invasion. The deaths of British service personnel are not a particularly large part of the story.

Probably best not to go into an endless 'was Blair good' debate here, but his scorecard on 'not causing a lot of premature mortality' is pretty damn checkered.

[Sam-AVFC]

1 minute ago, Demitri_C said:

Tony blair was really good wasnt he? A brilliant liar that took us in a war that wasnt needed. The only honest guy out of the lot seemed to be brown. 

Presumably you voted for Corbyn as the only anti-war candidate in the previous election?

Tony Blair was a bit of a sleezeball and I'm not conflating him with some saintly figure. I specifically pointed out May and Cameron as they aren't particularly honest either, but there are clearly le vels.

1 minute ago, Demitri_C said:

Point im trying to make mate is that both main parties are absolute garbage

I know the point you're trying to make. I'm trying to explain why I think they're  extremely different in severity and frequency.

To me saying both are garbage while the party in power is doing all sorts of shady shit is just lazy. It's also a bit like Trumps "both sides had good people" Charlottesville bs.

[Demitri_C]

1 minute ago, NurembergVillan said:

Vancouver was incredible, but SO far away and SO expensive.  Once I quit my job there was no way I could afford to stay there with another role, or doing what I'm doing now.

Germany had everything, really.  I was eroding the language barrier too, so once I'd got fluent it'd been fine.  Think I went there too young and in the wrong relationship.

Canada looks like a amazing place i really want to go visit there. I knkw we going off subject but what madd you quit? I heard vancouver is a amazing city

[Sam-AVFC]

6 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said:

I'd say more, but his daughter is a good friend and no one deserves to be outed publicly as having a dickhead dad! 

[NurembergVillan]

Just now, Demitri_C said:

Sorry mate but your comparing a global pandemic to a lying tyrant who took our troops to a war that wasnt needed?

Umm... Dunno about that bit, like.

But yeah, the comparison stands.  Act sooner, stop things like Cheltenham, kit out the NHS staff properly, fewer deaths.  It's that simple.

FTR - most wars we've ever been involved in "weren't needed".

[StefanAVFC]

It's quite the stretch to  'Ah but Labour' this current situation, I have to say. 

[Demitri_C]

1 minute ago, Sam-AVFC said:

Presumably you voted for Corbyn as the only anti-war candidate in the previous election?

Tony Blair was a bit of a sleezeball and I'm not conflating him with some saintly figure. I specifically pointed out May and Cameron as they aren't particularly honest either, but there are clearly le vels.

I know the point you're trying to make. I'm trying to explain why I think they're  extremely different in severity and frequency.

To me saying both are garbage while the party in power is doing all sorts of shady shit is just lazy. It's also a bit like Trumps "both sides had good people" Charlottesville bs.

I actually voted lib dems. 

I thought cameron was better than may and boris but he cocked up a lot of things id agree on that.

I agree boris is has doen a lot of dodgey things this one being bad. Im not excusing that. But i think corbyn would have destroyed this country as bad as boris is.

Starmer so far looks like a solid oppposition leader to begin with.  Its early days but he has potential to challenge boris.  If boris goes ahead with this allegedfreezing public sector pay for me that gives the keys to starmer at next election as the uk public wont forgive him for that after ll the public service have done for us protecting us

 

 

[NurembergVillan]

3 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

I mean, the best estimates are that roughly a million Iraqis died as a result of the invasion. The deaths of British service personnel are not a particularly large part of the story.

Probably best not to go into an endless 'was Blair good' debate here, but his scorecard on 'not causing a lot of premature mortality' is pretty damn checkered.

It's a huge, huge black mark against his name.  We could easily disappear down a rabbit hole about Afghanistan and the colonisation of so many countries too, so I'll draw the line.

Ultimately - the Iraq War overshadows Blair's other achievements, but shouldn't erase them from history IMO.

[NurembergVillan]

6 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Canada looks like a amazing place i really want to go visit there. I knkw we going off subject but what madd you quit? I heard vancouver is a amazing city

Cost of living, distance home to see the family, my job was killing me.

5 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

I'd say more, but his daughter is a good friend and no one deserves to be outed publicly as having a dickhead dad! 

We had a Tory council leader on here for a few years so the emoji was a bit of an in-joke.

[Demitri_C]

3 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said:

Umm... Dunno about that bit, like.

But yeah, the comparison stands.  Act sooner, stop things like Cheltenham, kit out the NHS staff properly, fewer deaths.  It's that simple.

FTR - most wars we've ever been involved in "weren't needed".

I agree with what your sayjng and you aay your plan is "easy" but its not. I agree the Cheltenham should ahve been cancelled but the nhs part of your post is not easy to do.  Many cohntries have strughled with this since the virus became serious.

Whether we like it or not most countries were completely unprepared for this. You woild like to hope moving forward thag we have learned from this to be prepared next time. But i doubt it

[StefanAVFC]

Just now, Demitri_C said:

Many cohntries have strughled with this since the virus became serious.

 

Yet have done far better than us (2nd most deaths globally)

1 minute ago, Demitri_C said:

Whether we like it or not most countries were completely unprepared for this

Yet have done far better than us (2nd most deaths globally)

[wazzap24]

25 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said:

He was good. He was a really good PM.  The Iraq War was a mess, but people have discarded everything else he achieved.

While we're on it, though, more NHS workers have died in the last 6 weeks than British service personnel during 8 years of war in Iraq.

Yep, take out the war mongering (difficult to do, I know) and he was an excellent PM and Labour from 97-08 were an excellent government IMO. 
 

I can only speak from personal experience,  but prior to Labour coming to power in ‘97, I remember my Dad having a really tough few years at work. Redundancies and lack of opportunity mainly. 
 

A year after Labour came to power, I was just entering the working world and from there both me and my dad had a decade of consistent work and opportunities to advance. I personally went from a salary of £11k in ‘98 to earning over £80k in ‘08 
 

When the blue team managed to convince the country that Labour had somehow managed to crash the housing market in the US and cause a global recession, I knew things were gong to go Pete Tong. Dad was out of work again by 2012, never got back to where he was and ended up being pensioned off with a crappy private payout and he’s struggled ever since. I myself earn less now than I did over a decade ago, despite being promoted during that time.

As time has gone by that decade has been completely re-written and all you ever hear about is Iraq and Brown selling the gold off. 
 

My personal opinions is, the time people started believing Cameron and his laminated ‘there’s no money left’ note, was the start of people ignoring facts/evidence and believing more in slogans and bullshit 

Edited May 26, 2020 by wazzap24

[Sam-AVFC]

4 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said:

We had a Tory council leader on here for a few years so the emoji was a bit of an in-joke.

I hope he was driven out with pitchforks and fire.

All jokes aside, the guy I'm talking about is incredibly kind and it will be fascinating to see what happens over the next few years to party figures unwilling to discard their principles. 

[meregreen]

28 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Tony blair was really good wasnt he? A brilliant liar that took us in a war that wasnt needed. The only honest guy out of the lot seemed to be brown. 

 

Point im trying to make mate is that both main parties are absolute garbage

The Tories are, and always have been, way out in front in the garbage stakes. No other Party even comes close to them.

Edited May 26, 2020 by meregreen

[Sam-AVFC]

16 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Whether we like it or not most countries were completely unprepared for this. You woild like to hope moving forward thag we have learned from this to be prepared next time. But i doubt it

I can't speak for other countries, but in America for example they did actually have a lot of recent pandemic preparations in place through the CDC...but Trump decided to dismantle it all as his ego couldn't handle it being done on Obama's watch.

In this instance they were unprepared, but through their own doing. I ripped up the protections is not a defence.

In this country I keep reading about how we were ranked one of the top countries for pandemic preparation before this kicked off. Yet we've still **** it. This suggests an issue with management moreso than preparation. This is also not a defence.

Bear in mind, Dominic Cummings (falsely) claimed on national television to have warned about the threat of a coronavirus early last year. If we was so prescient, then how on earth can he be excused for policies ignoring it? It would also be concerning (if true) that a man with longer to think about this than any other government figure in the world had **** up the response so badly.

I don't know how much of this type of stuff you've read (VT certainly helps me with this), but there have been enormous amounts written about the risks of global pandemics in the last few years so it really isn't a surprise.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Sam-AVFC

[blandy]

4 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

I mean, the best estimates are that roughly a million Iraqis died as a result of the invasion. The deaths of British service personnel are not a particularly large part of the story.

Probably best not to go into an endless 'was Blair good' debate here, but his scorecard on 'not causing a lot of premature mortality' is pretty damn checkered.

Yeah, it's like saying my neighbour was a nice guy, lent me tools and lawnmower and helped when....and apart from the murdering his wife bit, he was a good guy.

That said, the war was happening with or without him, the USA was invading regardless and he was one of the fig leaves. The major major part of the responsibility for the deaths lies with the likes of Bush and the new American project people. And Blair was urged on by the tories, criticised for not being more warmongery.

But he still utterly wrecked lives and ruined what would have been a decent reputation. Which is something of a shame. He's probably the most capable PM we've had for a long time. Maybe Starmer will get the chance to reverse the trend of ever worsening PMs since Blair. Cameron was bad, May terrible and Johnson is the utter pits.

Back to the virus, I was nearly certain Cummins was going to resign, because it was completely against the SPAD code of conduct for him to hold a press conference, so I assumed he'd have handed in his resignation just before it. But even though I know they care not a toss for the rules, and there's been evidence aplenty, I still didn't want to believe they'd so brazenly break them again and in full view of the press and public. They have to be got rid of as soon as possible, and Labour has got to get its act together sharpish. It's one thing having a good leader and some better front bench people, but there's still la long way to go.

I'd love to emigrate, too.

Edited May 26, 2020 by blandy
Typo

[Rolta]

It's lucky he got sick at the beauty spot and not somewhere else along the route. That would have at least been nice for his child and wife along for the test drive, although I'm sure he was too sick to enjoy it himself. It would have been a bit of an unexpected birthday stroke of luck for his wife too. Shame that after Cummings was so sick she didn't offer to drive back from the castle though the selfish so and so. I guess going 30 minutes and having to stop at a beauty spot because you felt so sick might have been a failed test of their driving suitability for most people, particularly when he said he'd also had problems with his vision, but Cummings is different to most, so it's good he was so resilient that he then concluded he was right to drive 200 miles to London. It's good people do tests like this the day before they're due to drive back too, on a sunny day, on his wife's birthday. It would be stupid to do it on the day he was planning to leave.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Rolta

[Vive_La_Villa]

It’s sad to read how many people want to leave the country because of the government.  A real shame.

Personally I love this country and the opportunities it’s given me and my family since they migrated here.   I’m not going to let the current government ruin that. 

Have things really gotten that bad in the UK?