chrisp65 Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Part of the problem will be cash flow for many companies, especially smaller ones. We are busy, but we aren’t getting paid on time by a number of much larger beasts in the supply chain. The money that comes in this month is the money that pays wages next month. So we have a choice, we can run out of money and close the business, or we can play the furlough game. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: 100% it's being taken advantage of. Probably by a massive amount of companies up and down the country. Our company are openly saying they're furloughing as many staff as possible. It's not a case of what job doesn't need doing anymore, it's a case of how long can we survive with an absolute skeleton staff in. My team's work hasn't really slowed down, yet two of us have been furloughed. If it keeps the company afloat and stops job losses I'm ok with it. But it's definitely not being used as it's intended, which is to pay staff who literally don't have a job to do during this time Yeah same with our place. They are getting busier every day even working Saturdays, but they are holding off bringing staff back in to save money. Yes its helping the company financially I guess, but it has been done the wrong way, bringing staff in to do other people's jobs, while other staff sit at home on 80%, quite a few part time staff have handed there notice in. I dont think they will have 100% back staff untill when the furlough ends, I mean why not take advantage, it's free money, but that's not actually fair for the staff. I actually think it's coming from individual managers rather than the directors as to look after there personal budgets. Ofcourse all the managers are back full time too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Quite a big trial this one. Finger crossed. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52737169 Quote Coronavirus: Hydroxychloroquine trial begins in the UK A trial to see whether two anti-malarial drugs could prevent Covid-19 has begun in Brighton and Oxford. Chloroquine, hydroxychloroquine or a placebo will be given to more than 40,000 healthcare workers from Europe, Africa, Asia and South America. All the participants are staff who are in contact with Covid-19 patients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 I am not in any position to judge this claim from a scientific point of view, so this post is not to endorse or not endorse the claim, just to note that it's being made: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Villarocker Posted May 21, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 21, 2020 So, last night my 6 year old son shouted out for his Mom at around 10:30. I went up to check on him and he was standing in his room and absolutely shaking all over. He said he was cold yet he was soaked in sweat and his pillow was soaked too. My son was also disorientated and complaining about his throat being sore and was also coughing. His Mom came upstairs to check what was going on. We asked him various questions and found that he was also feeling sick. We persuaded him to go the loo to ease pressure on his tummy. The sweat was pouring off him so we stripped him into a pair of boxers and washed him over with a cold flannel to cool him down and bring his temperature down. He calmed down after about 20 minutes. He downed a bottle and half of water. My son slept with us last night so we could keep check on him. We all had a very disrupted night where he kept coughing and sweating and needing a drink etc. I've called the doctor this morning and he said to book a Covid test as it could be that although, my son seems much better this morning and more like his normal self apart from a dry throat and slight cough. But, his Mom and I now have to self isolate from work which, for me, will be unpaid leave. I've managed to book today and tomorrow as holiday and the test kit will be delivered within 48 hours so hopefully it will be a negative result and my little fella is fine. I actually went to work this morning just to prove to my moaning bosses that I am OK and willing to work but explained the situation on arrival (no contact made with anyone) and was ordered to go straight home. I got a taxi to work with a regular local driver who has put a thick plastic sheet up in his cab to separate him from the passengers in the back, so I knew he would be safe. However, I couldnt book him for the return journey so, to protect others from me, I walked all the way home from work - 5 miles in the hot sun which has burnt my fat bald head. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, Villarocker said: So, last night my 6 year old son shouted out for his Mom at around 10:30. I went up to check on him and he was standing in his room and absolutely shaking all over. He said he was cold yet he was soaked in sweat and his pillow was soaked too. My son was also disorientated and complaining about his throat being sore and was also coughing. His Mom came upstairs to check what was going on. We asked him various questions and found that he was also feeling sick. We persuaded him to go the loo to ease pressure on his tummy. The sweat was pouring off him so we stripped him into a pair of boxers and washed him over with a cold flannel to cool him down and bring his temperature down. He calmed down after about 20 minutes. He downed a bottle and half of water. My son slept with us last night so we could keep check on him. We all had a very disrupted night where he kept coughing and sweating and needing a drink etc. I've called the doctor this morning and he said to book a Covid test as it could be that although, my son seems much better this morning and more like his normal self apart from a dry throat and slight cough. But, his Mom and I now have to self isolate from work which, for me, will be unpaid leave. I've managed to book today and tomorrow as holiday and the test kit will be delivered within 48 hours so hopefully it will be a negative result and my little fella is fine. I actually went to work this morning just to prove to my moaning bosses that I am OK and willing to work but explained the situation on arrival (no contact made with anyone) and was ordered to go straight home. I got a taxi to work with a regular local driver who has put a thick plastic sheet up in his cab to separate him from the passengers in the back, so I knew he would be safe. However, I couldnt book him for the return journey so, to protect others from me, I walked all the way home from work - 5 miles in the hot sun which has burnt my fat bald head. Hope he's all ok chap. Listening to all the adults getting ill is one thing, but when it's your child it's a whole different ball game. We have both had it and over it now, but our 5 year old being a little high risk, we have been watching him like a hawk every day, not nice, but hopefully all over for us now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 21, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted May 21, 2020 26 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Yeah same with our place. They are getting busier every day even working Saturdays, but they are holding off bringing staff back in to save money. Yes its helping the company financially I guess, but it has been done the wrong way, bringing staff in to do other people's jobs, while other staff sit at home on 80%, quite a few part time staff have handed there notice in. I dont think they will have 100% back staff untill when the furlough ends, I mean why not take advantage, it's free money, but that's not actually fair for the staff. I actually think it's coming from individual managers rather than the directors as to look after there personal budgets. Ofcourse all the managers are back full time too! The negative I’m fearing is that they think “well we managed without Stevo985 while he was furloughed so do we really need him?” in the event of redundancies. The reality is different. Stuff piled up and it’s manic now trying to get on top of everything again. But you know what senior management are like. They’ll just see we were a team member down and survived so why can’t we do that all the time 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 14 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: The negative I’m fearing is that they think “well we managed without Stevo985 while he was furloughed so do we really need him?” in the event of redundancies. The reality is different. Stuff piled up and it’s manic now trying to get on top of everything again. But you know what senior management are like. They’ll just see we were a team member down and survived so why can’t we do that all the time Very true, an they will see the ones who are in as the heros. I've got staff gagging to go back, an not just for money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 44 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Part of the problem will be cash flow for many companies, especially smaller ones. We are busy, but we aren’t getting paid on time by a number of much larger beasts in the supply chain. The money that comes in this month is the money that pays wages next month. So we have a choice, we can run out of money and close the business, or we can play the furlough game. There was a Q&A at my place about it as a number of people had asked why they were opening factories rather than leave the staff on furlough. As you say, the answer is because despite furlough offering a reduction in outgoings there are other bills that need to be paid by making and selling stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 17 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: The negative I’m fearing is that they think “well we managed without Stevo985 while he was furloughed so do we really need him?” in the event of redundancies. My boss has said something similar to our team when people have semi-seriously said they wish they were furloughed. He said the risk is what it turns into later on down the line if you’re off, and the business has found a way to work without you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Genie said: There was a Q&A at my place about it as a number of people had asked why they were opening factories rather than leave the staff on furlough. As you say, the answer is because despite furlough offering a reduction in outgoings there are other bills that need to be paid by making and selling stuff. Two typical examples, we have our rent review coming up and we have just had to renew our various insurances at the end of April. You can’t put £10 Million indemnity cover on furlough and you can’t miss a payment. So when somebody offers a project that involves an element of covid risk, but with payment in 4 weeks time, that’s a lot of pressure to get someone in to do it that isn’t necessarily the person that would ordinarily do it. Made up scenario, if our usual care home guy is 58 and asthmatic, and we get a care home job, we’ll be sending the 25 year old apprentice. Doesn’t mean anything more than that, it isn’t a marker for the long term future. 58 year old guy could have 10 years in post and a high salary, frankly some companies wouldn’t be able to afford to make him redundant. 25 year old, less than 24 months in post, might be less difficult to let go. I don’t know, there are lot n lots of variables. So someone could be a candidate for furlough short term as maximum saving, but not a long term redundancy prospect. It’s going to get ugly though, that much is guaranteed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straggler Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Businesses are so dumb. They hardly ever look past what is looking at them in the face. During a time of emergency it is possible to get less people to do more as they bust a gut for the greater good. These same people will be looking down the road to the point that they get some relief, it won't be a sustainable workload over the long term in most cases. If the reward for busting a gut during an emergency is that the business decides to make that the new normal then all you get is a massive amount of resentment. I bet you a pound to a penny that the new normal will not come with a pay rise either. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Defo no pay rises, but this is just a good excuse yet again. Our company seem to have not many of the veterans back. Thinking though they should be ok still once we get back. Companies small or big dont wanna make 10 plus year employees redundant. It'll be all the cheap heros who restarted the business out on there arse, if it happens, doubt there will be any loyalty. Definately agree with this being a bit of a example for companies, they will now know how many staff they can run the business without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 10 minutes ago, Straggler said: Businesses are so dumb. They hardly ever look past what is looking at them in the face. During a time of emergency it is possible to get less people to do more as they bust a gut for the greater good. These same people will be looking down the road to the point that they get some relief, it won't be a sustainable workload over the long term in most cases. If the reward for busting a gut during an emergency is that the business decides to make that the new normal then all you get is a massive amount of resentment. I bet you a pound to a penny that the new normal will not come with a pay rise either. My firm has been pretty good so far, they haven’t furloughed anybody or announced any redundancies as yet. It’s pretty unusual as they are normally absolutely hopeless in difficult times and are basically the corporate version of the Tories - their only answer is austerity. The story goes that the only reason we’ve all been kept on, is because we are owned by a massive bank and the bank are worried about the fallout if they get rid. We’ve already been told there is no pay rise and commission schemes are being looked at, so it won’t be long before they start trying to clawback the ‘goodwill’ they have shown us by turning the screw. I am grateful to have remained in post and on full pay, but I’m not naive enough to know it’s going to come at a price. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted May 21, 2020 Moderator Share Posted May 21, 2020 I think there will be a social gap in workplaces once everyone is back, between those that were kept on to keep things ticking and those that were furloughed. From the perspective of those that did the important work so that people had jobs to come back to, they were the ones taking the risk, working their socks off and making sure life went on while the furloughed people sat in their pants in the garden all day drinking wine. From the perspective of those that were furloughed, they were the ones separated from life, left in a sort of purgatory and imprisoned at home for the good of society whilst those that worked got to keep a pretty normal life, travel, do stuff and interact with other adults. It'll happen when someone at a workplace jokingly says "Yeah, this is what we were doing while you were sat at home on your arse." and they'll be shocked by how angry the response is. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 56 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Hope he's all ok chap. Listening to all the adults getting ill is one thing, but when it's your child it's a whole different ball game. We have both had it and over it now, but our 5 year old being a little high risk, we have been watching him like a hawk every day, not nice, but hopefully all over for us now. Cheers mate. Ethan's fine this morning but has a sore throat and is sneezing so hopefully it's just a bit of a cold or something to do with pollen. Thing is, we just don't know so have to follow the guidelines. Thing is though, the doctor said the virus has some similar symptoms to meningitis so to be mindful of that. Hopefully it's nothing but got to be alert, as Boris says. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted May 21, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted May 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: I think there will be a social gap in workplaces once everyone is back, between those that were kept on to keep things ticking and those that were furloughed. From the perspective of those that did the important work so that people had jobs to come back to, they were the ones taking the risk, working their socks off and making sure life went on while the furloughed people sat in their pants in the garden all day drinking wine. From the perspective of those that were furloughed, they were the ones separated from life, left in a sort of purgatory and imprisoned at home for the good of society whilst those that worked got to keep a pretty normal life, travel, do stuff and interact with other adults. It'll happen when someone at a workplace jokingly says "Yeah, this is what we were doing while you were sat at home on your arse." and they'll be shocked by how angry the response is. It's already happening at my place. I have one team almost completely furloughed and one almost at full capacity. The ones still working have already been making noises that they must come first when it comes to booking annual leave post-lockdown, that they must be rewarded for their efforts in keeping the company afloat, that it's not fair they're working their nuts off when others are having a lovely long holiday. The ones that are furloughed are desperate to come back - not because they are bored (although I suspect they are) but because they want to help. Anyone moaning gets fairly curt responses from me. Both parties are doing what they are doing to ensure that as many people as possible have jobs to come back to. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 We know so little about the virus pretty any kind of symptom of illness could be a sign of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Just now, choffer said: It's already happening at my place. I have one team almost completely furloughed and one almost at full capacity. The ones still working have already been making noises that they must come first when it comes to booking annual leave post-lockdown, that they must be rewarded for their efforts in keeping the company afloat, that it's not fair they're working their nuts off when others are having a lovely long holiday. The ones that are furloughed are desperate to come back - not because they are bored (although I suspect they are) but because they want to help. Anyone moaning gets fairly curt responses from me. Both parties are doing what they are doing to ensure that as many people as possible have jobs to come back to. Could you rotate the staff on/off furlough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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