Awol Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Genie said: Be interesting to see how these early adopters get on, if they see a second spike then we’ll be locked down for months I don’t think so, that’s why they’re unlikely to end this one precipitously. Whitty et al have said from the beginning that lockdown is a one shot deal. If we had a second major spike I think we’d end up ploughing through it. Unless Sweden ends up with catastrophic increase in deaths over the next few weeks then people will point at them and say that’s the model we have to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 Quote Coronavirus: The seven types of people who start and spread viral misinformation By Marianna Spring Specialist disinformation reporter https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-52474347 What is this drivel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 8 hours ago, Awol said: I don’t think so, that’s why they’re unlikely to end this one precipitously. Whitty et al have said from the beginning that lockdown is a one shot deal. If we had a second major spike I think we’d end up ploughing through it. Unless Sweden ends up with catastrophic increase in deaths over the next few weeks then people will point at them and say that’s the model we have to follow. I agree it’s a one shot deal. The benefit of being later in the cycle of this virus is that we can see (and hopefully learn from) those at a more advanced stage. All eyes on Italy as they relax their lockdown measures... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 My eBay face masks arrived yesterday so wore one to the supermarket for the weekly shop last night. I’d say l saw less than half a dozen others with masks. I strongly suspect the government are playing down their effectiveness because of the obvious follow up question “if they are useful where can the public get access to them?” which they can’t answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 (edited) Hnacock rolling out the notion of 'doing one's duty' to push people to download their app. Edited May 5, 2020 by snowychap 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 54 minutes ago, Genie said: My eBay face masks arrived yesterday so wore one to the supermarket for the weekly shop last night. I’d say l saw less than half a dozen others with masks. I strongly suspect the government are playing down their effectiveness because of the obvious follow up question “if they are useful where can the public get access to them?” which they can’t answer. Said this from the beginning. Taiwan have attributed their massive successive in containing Covid to everyone wearing masks. It’s been normalized in East Asia since SARS for the same reason. Our ‘scientific advice’ was obviously based on a PPE shortage and the government not wanting to be in competition with the public to acquire it for the NHS, which needed it more. Now it’s very difficult to row back from that advice (despite the obvious benefits) because otherwise why should people trust the scientists if they were pulling the wool? Lack of candor and trusting the public has been the major failing of the government’s reaction to this - distinct from the systemic failure to prepare properly. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straggler Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 Sums up how I feel. Quote After polling across 14 countries, Ipsos Mori has found that Britons are more concerned than others about returning to normal activities – like moving through the crowds at Cheltenham or attending a Stereophonics gig – with 70% of respondents opposing the opening of the economy before the virus is under control, and 71% saying they’d be nervous about leaving the house even if businesses were allowed to reopen and travel restrictions were lifted. Personally I’d love to get inside the mind of the 30% of people who think we should open the economy up before coronavirus is really dealt with – please, Mr Johnson, let me catch a lethal disease from co-working in a coffee shop, I just want to experience society again – but the more important point is that alleviating this national “fear” is somehow being portrayed as a more important problem for the government to solve than, like, the pandemic virus that is still sweeping around us. I’d rather they sort a vaccine out before they drill down into the messaging of un-scaring us, but that’s just me. I think what would make me least scared of all would be a robust and workable public health policy that isn’t “herd immunity” or “making it seem like you’ve done 100,000 tests”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 I think some of the low testing numbers now can simply be put down to it being too late for many people. The majority of people do actually seem to have spent most of the last 6/7 weeks at home so are unlikely to currently have it & be in need of a test. If 100,000+ had been available a month or more back or if this was tests to see if you had actually had it rather than have it now it would be an entirely different story with queues everywhere for tests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, snowychap said: Hnacock rolling out the notion of 'doing one's duty' to push people to download their app. The guy is an absolute moron, I’m convinced he’s genuinely of low intelligence. He looks and sounds gormless, I think I’d sooner take advice from a random person off Mumsnet before listening to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 I think I fall into the category on this app of being in a demographic of people who want it to work and think it's a good idea. I can't however detach that entirely from the people who are telling me these things - I mean they've been short of the truth on literally every other occasion so far in this crisis. It will be a tragic irony if the app turned out to be brilliant but nobody trusted the salesman enough to download it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said: I think some of the low testing numbers now can simply be put down to it being too late for many people. The majority of people do actually seem to have spent most of the last 6/7 weeks at home so are unlikely to currently have it & be in need of a test. If 100,000+ had been available a month or more back or if this was tests to see if you had actually had it rather than have it now it would be an entirely different story with queues everywhere for tests Well testing is available all over the UK now so really it's down to us. Me an the Mrs are off for our second test today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 9 hours ago, Awol said: I don’t think so, that’s why they’re unlikely to end this one precipitously. Whitty et al have said from the beginning that lockdown is a one shot deal. If we had a second major spike I think we’d end up ploughing through it. Unless Sweden ends up with catastrophic increase in deaths over the next few weeks then people will point at them and say that’s the model we have to follow. I agree they're unlikely to rush to end this one, but I do't think I agree that this is a 'one shot deal'. I'm sure they *hope* it will be, but the incentive structure for the government will be the same in the autumn (or whenever) as it is now. If critical care capacity threatens to be breached, they will have to take actions to reduce the R0, whether they want to or not. I'm old enough to remember when they really, really didn't want to enter a lockdown *this* time as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 24 minutes ago, snowychap said: Hnacock rolling out the notion of 'doing one's duty' to push people to download their app. Front page of the times. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Jareth said: I think I fall into the category on this app of being in a demographic of people who want it to work and think it's a good idea. What, technically about the app, makes you think it's a good idea? If what you think is a good idea is having an app that does the job properly (whilst dealing with concerns about data and people's privacy and more) then that may well be very different from thinking this app is a good idea. I think there's a real danger of going from a good and appropriate app will help matters, and so we should look to it, to any app will do (I can't help but sing that in my head to Any Dream Will Do). Edit: I think your subsequent post has probably explained that your thinking is the former rather than the latter in the above sentence. Edited May 5, 2020 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 Just now, snowychap said: What, technically about the app, makes you think it's a good idea? If what you think is a good idea is having an app that does the job properly (whilst dealing with concerns about data and people's privacy and more) then that may well be very different from thinking this app is a good idea. I think there's a real danger of going from a good and appropriate app will help matters, and so we should look to it, to any app will do (I can't help but sing that in my head to Any Dream Will Do). Yeah I'm just into the necessity of it - if a version of an app works well and meets privacy concerns then I'm on board. I was on board with this one - but since have googled it a few times and found some very convincing reasons it might fail - not so much on privacy (although still dodgy as feck) but on the fact that it is likely not to work at all - It will work if people open the app and leave it open and the phone unlocked. But if you close it and forget to reopen it, or the phone falls asleep, the app will not broadcast its ID and no other phones around you will register that you've been close by. https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/05/05/uk_coronavirus_app/ I'm all for accusing this lot of dirty tricks but now it's clear the app will not work very well anyway - then that's it for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 I've been reading this book called Surveillance Capitalism, and whilst I've obviously already given out more than enough data into the world I assume, I'm in no rush to make matters worse. The app, in any guise can sod off. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 (edited) Quote Coronavirus: How does contact tracing work and is my data safe? By Eleanor Lawrie ................. What can the government do with my data? Not everyone is happy with the government and third parties being given access to people's data. Civil rights group Liberty said the government must take the risks seriously, and should not make installing the app a condition to leaving the lockdown or returning to work. ''Millions of us are going to need to trust the app and follow the advice it provides,'' says NHSX, the digital development arm of the health service. It says the information gathered will only ever be used for health and research purposes, and that the app can be deleted at any time. The UK app will use a centralised model, meaning the matching process will take place on a computer server. An alternative, decentralised model was put forward by Apple and Google, where the exchange happens on people's handsets. The tech giants say their version makes it harder for hackers or the authorities to use the computer server logs to track and identify specific individuals. But NHSX says its centralised system will help give it more insight into how the disease spreads and help it to make the app more efficient. I love how the beeb goes about asking questions in it's bold text and then doesn't bother to answer them in the article. Anyone thinking there's an ounce of journalistic integrity left in that organisation is fooling themselves. Misdirectional, sales driven con written all over this app. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-52442754 Edited May 5, 2020 by VILLAMARV Linky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 5, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted May 5, 2020 28 minutes ago, Jareth said: Yeah I'm just into the necessity of it - if a version of an app works well and meets privacy concerns then I'm on board. I was on board with this one - but since have googled it a few times and found some very convincing reasons it might fail - not so much on privacy (although still dodgy as feck) but on the fact that it is likely not to work at all - It will work if people open the app and leave it open and the phone unlocked. But if you close it and forget to reopen it, or the phone falls asleep, the app will not broadcast its ID and no other phones around you will register that you've been close by. https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/05/05/uk_coronavirus_app/ I'm all for accusing this lot of dirty tricks but now it's clear the app will not work very well anyway - then that's it for me. Nobody walks around with their phone unlocked. Even if you tried, most phones auto lock after a certain amount of time. I'm sure you can turn this off, but will people do that? Or know how to do it? Plus a big emphasis yesterday was on the app not draining your battery. Hancock made sure to mention it. But if you have to walk round with your screen on the whole time it definitely will drain your battery! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 (edited) Sad thing is it will make the nhsx brand toxic. They've put loads of apps out that genuinely aim to help the nhs deliver better services. Edited May 5, 2020 by VILLAMARV Added - aim to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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