Demitri_C Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 8 hours ago, sidcow said: Whoa. That's an off the scale accusation. I'm certain there are parts of the established media which would be all over that if there was even a glimmer of truth. Well i can tell you something and i dont care who doesnt believe me on this forum. I had a older relative in hospital who died of organ failure during covid times. Her death had nothing to do with covid but the doctors wanted to put her death down as covid. My aunty was furious (it was her mum) she asked them why they wanted to do this and she said this is "what they are being instructed" and wouldnt elaborate. My aunty refused and it went to a hearing that my aunty won. **** knows why. Still till this day i have no idea why 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 35 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Well i can tell you something and i dont care who doesnt believe me on this forum. I had a older relative in hospital who died of organ failure during covid times. Her death had nothing to do with covid but the doctors wanted to put her death down as covid. My aunty was furious (it was her mum) she asked them why they wanted to do this and she said this is "what they are being instructed" and wouldnt elaborate. My aunty refused and it went to a hearing that my aunty won. **** knows why. Still till this day i have no idea why My guess is that she had a positive covid test within 28 days of her death, hence why it is mentioned on the death certificate. Quote The daily COVID deaths counts reported on the government's COVID-19 dashboard (produced by PHE) shows deaths within 28 days of a first positive laboratory-confirmed test. . Quote The doctor or coroner certifying a death can record more than one health condition or event on the form. The medical certificate of cause of death has two parts, Part 1 contains the sequence of health conditions or events leading directly to death, while Part 2 can contain other health conditions that contributed to the death but were not part of the direct sequence. For statistical purposes one of the health conditions on the certificate is chosen as the 'underlying cause of death'. The underlying cause of death is defined as the health condition or event that started the train of events leading to death and is worked out according to rules from the World Health Organisation (WHO). COVID-19 is the underlying cause of death in around 92% of deaths where it was mentioned on the death certificate. ONS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 Just now, Genie said: My guess is that she had a positive covid test within 28 days of her death, hence why it is mentioned on the death certificate. ONS It's also anecdotal and you can't argue with anecdotal. Like I could say that a relative was killed in a car crash but they wanted to put COVID down as the cause of death. You can't disprove it, they went to a different school, you wouldn't know them etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Genie said: My guess is that she had a positive covid test within 28 days of her death, hence why it is mentioned on the death certificate. ONS They wanted to say the death was caused by covid not that she had it. She couldnt eat and thats what fundamentally killed her because she had vascular dementia Ill ask if she had covid within the 28 days but very unlikely the hospital would have known anyway as she was only in for 9 days before she passed Edited November 19, 2023 by Demitri_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: They wanted to say the death was caused by covid not that she had it. She couldnt eat and thats what fundamentally killed her because she had vascular dementia Ill ask if she had covid within the 28 days but very unlikely the hospital would have known anyway as she was only in for 9 days before she passed They were testing everyone in hospital regularly. I know a few people that were in hospital during the pandemic and they all caught covid whilst in hospital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sidcow Posted November 19, 2023 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted November 19, 2023 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: Absolutely and a well balanced argument not just because its one sided and you hate people that didnt get vaccine I don't hate people who don't get vaccinated. I just think they're **** idiots. And I don't mean that in a flippant way. I genuinely from the bottom of the heart think they're idiots. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 1 hour ago, sidcow said: I don't hate people who don't get vaccinated. I just think they're **** idiots. And I don't mean that in a flippant way. I genuinely from the bottom of the heart think they're idiots. Okay boomer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted November 19, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted November 19, 2023 1 minute ago, bannedfromHandV said: Okay boomer. Sorry, I'm just sheeple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mjmooney Posted November 19, 2023 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted November 19, 2023 19 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: Okay boomer. Whenever I see that, it confirms that I was right. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 2 hours ago, Demitri_C said: Well i can tell you something and i dont care who doesnt believe me on this forum. I had a older relative in hospital who died of organ failure during covid times. Her death had nothing to do with covid but the doctors wanted to put her death down as covid. My aunty was furious (it was her mum) she asked them why they wanted to do this and she said this is "what they are being instructed" and wouldnt elaborate. My aunty refused and it went to a hearing that my aunty won. **** knows why. Still till this day i have no idea why My Mrs is a nurse and on the frontline during Covid. Any death of an older person who died of natural causes or was put down as Covid related. Anyone who had covid, but possible died of organ falier or alike was put down as a covid death. The figures you read in the media are way off, anyone who was on the frontline has many stories to tell about Covid times you won't read in the media. People are so nieve to the reality, example. " This lady has just past away while we have been rushing about, someone forgot to check on her". "Just put it down as Covid". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 19, 2023 Moderator Share Posted November 19, 2023 Bacofoil don’t need the income boost this close to Xmas but they seem to be getting it anyway 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 34 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: Okay boomer. I genuinely thought only Trump lunatics used this phrase. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyeddie Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 The Government mismanaged the whole Covid situation, and tried to convince the public that dying with Covid was the same as dying from Covid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 21 minutes ago, luckyeddie said: The Government mismanaged the whole Covid situation, and tried to convince the public that dying with Covid was the same as dying from Covid. People who want to believe it will believe it. They fail to see the detail behind it, as I posted above. People who had covid within 28 days of their death have covid on their death certificate, ALONGSIDE the other cause(s). Someone who had covid a week before organ failure, has both recorded in their death certificate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyeddie Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 4 minutes ago, Genie said: People who want to believe it will believe it. They fail to see the detail behind it, as I posted above. People who had covid within 28 days of their death have covid on their death certificate, ALONGSIDE the other cause(s). Someone who had covid a week before organ failure, has both recorded in their death certificate. Yeah, this Government will stoop to any level to deceive the public, including manipulating death figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 29 minutes ago, luckyeddie said: The Government mismanaged the whole Covid situation, and tried to convince the public that dying with Covid was the same as dying from Covid. What would their motive be to do this? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 4 minutes ago, luckyeddie said: Yeah, this Government will stoop to any level to deceive the public, including manipulating death figures. I don’t see how it’s deceiving the public, it’s completely transparent, and how most other countries recorded the deaths too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 To add to @Genie's comments, I think it's worth pointing out we recorded and reported both. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsduetocovid19registeredinenglandandwales2020 Each death count update included stats of death due to covid, and deaths involving covid. Deaths involving covid are still important to capture even if it didn't appear to be a primary cause. As in the case of someone dying with organ failure, it may very well be that covid had nothing to do with it. However we were fighting a novel virus, and still learning about it as the crisis unfolded. That data has value, if in a hypothetical situation the health statisticians notice "hang on, we're seeing 10 times as many people die from organ failure as we'd normally expect, and almost all of them had or were recovering from covid..." 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 Wasn't the key stat the excess deaths compared to normal? Lots more people were dying than usually would, I suspect many of those who died 'with' covid rather than 'because of' it had their chances of surviving lessened by having a respiratory disease at the same time. The figure going back down to normal coincided with the vaccine roll out, I read in the Lancet that globally the vaccine would have saved 19m lives if you take recorded excess deaths as the best measure of covid. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 Anyway I can't believe we're still debating all this 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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