bickster Posted May 8, 2023 Moderator Share Posted May 8, 2023 6 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: I doubt they will get far. Get far with what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted May 8, 2023 Share Posted May 8, 2023 2 hours ago, Mark Albrighton said: He says he also received apologies from police officers. Another scandal for the Met pile. Lots of “mistakes were made” media appearances from Sir Mark Rowley incoming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 10 hours ago, tonyh29 said: We won’t descend into fascism …. but to answer your question , I’m not concerned about protestors being arrested , most of the protestors were left alone , we saw them on the tv with their banners … it seemed to be identified trouble makers who despite protestations of innocence on Twitter that were removed … one protestor whose Twitter handle was phileggsking and has a previous conviction for egging , is bleating away at how he did nothing wrong … yes because you were taken away before you got a chance to .. you can argue it’s like minority report but i’d rather a few activists were given a few hours in detention than allow them to run amok on the streets . I’m aware this won’t be a popular view on here though but I’m aware of the concerns of those people , maybe in some circumstances I’ll even join them on the streets , but oil or republicanism isn’t that cause for me Thanks for the reply tony. I realise reading it back that it's a rather loaded question. I'm just interested though. So thanks for the genuine response. I work with people who vocalise similar feelings to the above. But I know them personally. I understand their frustration with other sections of society but I also know in their heart of hearts they'd be at the very front of the line if what they recognise as actual fascists marched down the street towards us. So to paraphrase, what I take from your answer is it would bother you (if we descended into fascism), you understand the concerns of others and you wouldn't welcome it with open arms. I appreciate people don't like protesters and I appreciate oil and republicanism is in the news right now. But the point was about illegal detention and arrest. I believe this all started with dutch football hooligans being rounded up in pre-crime style and that decision was upheld in the end by the ECHR who said that it was ok because they were football holligans. And who's going to argue for football hooligans? Then came the terrorists, so just for them and the hooligans. And now, here we are, with other groups/individuals being targetted with the same tactics. I'm not talking about agree or disagree with a particular cause (there's plenty of other threads for that) - and hey, I'm well aware that this was always going to happen - it's the coronation. The police warned the public beforehand they would be draconian. And it's not the first time - nor will it be the last, it's just what we do now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 Quote It didn't start with the gas chambers. It didn't start with the crematoria. It didn't start with the concentration and extermination camps. It didn't start with the 6 million Jews who lost their lives. Nor did it start with the other 10 million people who died, including Poles, Ukrainians, Belarusians, Russians, Yugoslavs, Roma, disabled people, political dissidents, prisoners of war, Jehovah's Witnesses and homosexuals. It started with politicians dividing people between "us" and "them". It began with the speeches of hatred and intolerance, in the streets and through the media. It began with promises and propaganda, aimed only at increasing consensus. It began with the laws that distinguished people based on "race" and skin color. It began with children expelled from school because they were children of people of another religion. It began with people deprived of their possessions, their loved ones, their homes, their dignity. It began with the filing of intellectuals. It began with ghettoization and deportation. It started when people stopped worrying about it, when people became numb, obedient and blind, with the belief that all of this was "normal". Primo Levi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 (edited) 14 hours ago, tonyh29 said: is bleating away at how he did nothing wrong …yes because you were taken away before you got a chance to .. Yikes. Nothing to see here citizens, just the police using their powers of foresight to detain people who've done nothing wrong, just in case they do. Perfectly healthy democracy. Edited May 9, 2023 by Davkaus 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 9, 2023 Moderator Share Posted May 9, 2023 2 hours ago, Davkaus said: Yikes. Nothing to see here citizens, just the police using their powers of foresight to detain people who've done nothing wrong, just in case they do. Perfectly healthy democracy. That’s why they always let people do terrorism and never try to stop them, right? I agree with you that they were apparently ott on Saturday, but it’s not necessarily a great argument. Crime prevention is their core role, surely? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 11 minutes ago, blandy said: That’s why they always let people do terrorism and never try to stop them, right? I agree with you that they were apparently ott on Saturday, but it’s not necessarily a great argument. Crime prevention is their core role, surely? Well, no, when arresting someone the police have to tell them what crime they think they've committed, not crime they think they might be about to commit. Your example isn't quite there, you don't need to actually commit an act of terrorism to be breaking the law though, they'd be using powers to detain people with evidence that they've been organising an attack, or for the offences of possessing weapon, etc, not simply picking someone out as "we reckon you're up to no good, just a hunch because you've done stuff before". The big problem with this of course is offences which hugely rely upon the discretion and opinion of officers like "breach of the peace" which can essentially be a copper not liking your face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 9, 2023 Moderator Share Posted May 9, 2023 11 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Well, no, when arresting someone the police have to tell them what crime they think they've committed, not crime they think they might be about to commit. Your example isn't quite there, you don't need to actually commit an act of terrorism to be breaking the law though, they'd be using powers to detain people with evidence that they've been organising an attack, or for the offences of possessing weapon, etc, not simply picking someone out as "we reckon you're up to no good, just a hunch because you've done stuff before". The big problem with this of course is offences which hugely rely upon the discretion and opinion of officers like "breach of the peace" which can essentially be a copper not liking your face. I agree it's not a perfect analogy, and I agree they were OTT on Saturday as I said. They have the power to stop and search people, like on Saturday. Some of those they searched had committed an offence (drugs, for example). Others, it appears not and that's where they went ott. They (it appears) deliberately removed a number of people and detained them purely because they had anti kinging signs, and were not in breach of any law, not even the new anti protest laws, and hat was quite wrong and OTT. As regards more serious offences like terrorism, the authorities do try to prevent attacks and so on before they happen, using laws which have been evolved and powers which have been increased in recent-ish times. Clearly aimed at (they would say) averting serious casualties etc. while still allowing the miscreants to be sent to the big house. So they get them for planning to attack, rather than waiting for an attack. And that's obviously sensible. Unfortunately what we have now is for protest stuff, the police are too often acting as an agent for the thing that people protest against, rather than just ensuring order is maintained and people's rights are upheld, both in terms fo the right to protest and the right to go about your lawful business without impediment, which is a tricky balance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 49 minutes ago, blandy said: hat was quite wrong and OTT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, VILLAMARV said: F*** me, do you live in worry that because the police over reacted with a few protestors it's gonna end up with us all being gased. Bit over the top to post something like that, also a worry it actually got liked Edited May 9, 2023 by foreveryoung Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 26 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: F*** me, do you live in worry that because the police over reacted with a few protestors it's gonna end up with us all being gased. Bit over the top to post something like that, also a worry it actually got liked No thank you and no. Did you even read past the first line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 You shouldn't mind your phones being tapped if you have nothing to hide, it's for the greater good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 I find that if I read some posts and its contrary to my thinking, I am probably on the correct side. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustibrooks Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 Speaking of the met, there’s a video circulating of a homeless guys two dogs being shot dead. I won’t post it, because it’s pretty horrific. However apparently the guys dogs bit another woman (which is being debated if it actually happened or if she just called the police on him about his dogs) and 7 police officers turned up. One with one of them dog nooses that can taser them I think? And another with a pump action shotgun. Whilst tasering the lad, the fed with the shotgun killed his first dog in front of him. Baring in mind the guy had his dogs under control for the most part, they were obviously scared and were barking to begin with. Then they killed the second dog after having it under slight control. My whole thing is this, how can 7 adults not be able to handle two dogs? Or better yet are the police not trained to handle this situations better? Can they not deploy dog handlers for reports of a possible unruly dog/dogs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 10, 2023 Moderator Share Posted May 10, 2023 48 minutes ago, Rustibrooks said: Speaking of the met, there’s a video circulating of a homeless guys two dogs being shot dead. I won’t post it, because it’s pretty horrific. However apparently the guys dogs bit another woman (which is being debated if it actually happened or if she just called the police on him about his dogs) and 7 police officers turned up. One with one of them dog nooses that can taser them I think? And another with a pump action shotgun. Whilst tasering the lad, the fed with the shotgun killed his first dog in front of him. Baring in mind the guy had his dogs under control for the most part, they were obviously scared and were barking to begin with. Then they killed the second dog after having it under slight control. My whole thing is this, how can 7 adults not be able to handle two dogs? Or better yet are the police not trained to handle this situations better? Can they not deploy dog handlers for reports of a possible unruly dog/dogs? Dunno about London, but in these parts councils employ Dog Wardens for this type of job 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted May 11, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted May 11, 2023 More stellar work. Quote A royal superfan was arrested and held by police for 13 hours because she happened to be standing next to a group of Just Stop Oil protesters ahead of the King’s coronation. Alice Chambers had travelled alone to The Mall in central London on Saturday and was eagerly awaiting a glimpse of King Charles when she found herself being handcuffed by Metropolitan Police officers who burst into the crowd. The 36-year-old architect, who is originally from Australia but has lived in London for seven years, said she had no idea she happened to be sitting beside the group, as they had not started protesting. Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted May 11, 2023 Share Posted May 11, 2023 Just came to post that, absolutely jawdropping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted May 11, 2023 Share Posted May 11, 2023 (edited) Now they're dragging away the royalists I'm starting to come around to @tonyh29's way of thinking Edited May 11, 2023 by Davkaus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted May 11, 2023 Author Share Posted May 11, 2023 Tbf I was advocating arresting known trouble makers who attended the event whilst openly bragging on Twitter that they were going to disrupted the event At face value her arrest does seem wrong , even if she does look like a just stop oil protester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted May 12, 2023 Share Posted May 12, 2023 12 hours ago, tonyh29 said: Tbf I was advocating arresting known trouble makers who attended the event whilst openly bragging on Twitter that they were going to disrupted the event At face value her arrest does seem wrong , even if she does look like a just stop oil protester I'd be curious how you'd react if you were arrested at Gdansk airport as a known drunken lout in Sopot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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