Police state or the state of policing

[Jonesy7211]

1 minute ago, bickster said:

Just watch in the weeks coming up

I don't agree with the original posters views, and sincerely hope you're right, but I don't expect much traction on this from the Tory led media.

Who in the mainstream media in your opinion will run with it? Genuinely interested in your opinion.

[foreveryoung]

9 minutes ago, bickster said:

Accepting differing opinions is supporting the right to protest 

An I thought protest was about change. They are wasting there time on this one, as there gonna change **** all.

 

[Rugeley Villa]

Yeah can’t see the movement getting much attention at all . It will be forgotten about very quickly . I dare say most people don’t give a crap about it. 

[bickster]

34 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

An I thought protest was about change. They are wasting there time on this one, as there gonna change **** all.

 

Protesting is about campaigning for change, it doesn't bring about change in itself. Protesting is about publicising a cause

[mjmooney]

38 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

An I thought protest was about change. They are wasting there time on this one, as there gonna change **** all.

30 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

Yeah can’t see the movement getting much attention at all . It will be forgotten about very quickly . I dare say most people don’t give a crap about it. 

I'll wager that was very much the sort of thing that was said to William Wilberforce, Emmeline Pankhurst, et al. 

[bickster]

48 minutes ago, Jonesy7211 said:

Who in the mainstream media in your opinion will run with it? Genuinely interested in your opinion.

I suspect there will be a court case, either because the CPS bring one against the arrested or because the arrested sue for wrongful arrest

You'll then have an absolute media circus. On the left, you'll have the Guardian / Indie / James O'Brien types (don't be shocked if he has a show on it this week btw) softly supporting the right to protest and on the right you'll have the usual suspects Mail / Express / GBNews going at it from a culture war angle of woke judiciary / lawyers etc

But in short, it'll be lead by the relevant court case not the media

It would have absolutely been forgotten by now even if they just been allowed to have their protest

[bickster]

Royals in the Royal Family thread please. State of Policing in here. Ta

[VILLAMARV]

So if I'm following this right, police should take a baton to anyone they deem annoying while at the same time not being expected to communicate with the public what constitutes annoying.

Jebus

[bickster]

7 hours ago, VILLAMARV said:

So if I'm following this right, police should take a baton to anyone they deem annoying while at the same time not being expected to communicate with the public what constitutes annoying.

Pretty much sums up the new protest bill too

[Mandy Lifeboats]

I do not condone the Police’s actions at the Coronation in any way. 

Free speech needs to be defended.  The right to protest needs to be defended. 

But when protests inconvenience others it becomes a much more difficult topic.  Some people shouting things at the Coronation is acceptable.  

But would anyone support protesters blocking the road outside an Ambulance Depot or Fire Station without giving any notice?  What about blocking the road near a local A&E?  Or blocking the road at a motorway junction nearest an A&E?  

There is a line in the sand and some protesters feel that their cause is so important that it justifies others coming to harm.  Everyone draws their own line. 
 

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

I do not condone the Police’s actions at the Coronation in any way. 

Free speech needs to be defended.  The right to protest needs to be defended. 

But when protests inconvenience others it becomes a much more difficult topic.  Some people shouting things at the Coronation is acceptable.  

But would anyone support protesters blocking the road outside an Ambulance Depot or Fire Station without giving any notice?  What about blocking the road near a local A&E?  Or blocking the road at a motorway junction nearest an A&E?  

There is a line in the sand and some protesters feel that their cause is so important that it justifies others coming to harm.  Everyone draws their own line. 
 

What protests have caused people harm and then the protesters justified it? 

I'm struggling to think of any.

[VILLAMARV]

52 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

But would anyone support protesters blocking the road outside an Ambulance Depot or Fire Station without giving any notice?  What about blocking the road near a local A&E?  Or blocking the road at a motorway junction nearest an A&E?  

If that were to happen it would be awful.

Before I left Cardiff, there was a protest that shut down the road outside the Castle gates, which if anyone knows Cardiff, means you just stopped one side of the city being connected to the other without a fair few miles of going out of your way. It absolutely had a potential for impacting emergency services response times. When ambulances and other emergency vehicles with their blues and two's on approached the blockade however, it parted like the red sea and they were applauded on their way.

some problems are easily solved with a simple risk assessment.

Weirdly though, no one seems to make the same point when they shut the same road because there's a rugby match at the stadium, or when access around the city is severely curtailed when the half marathon is on. And AFAIK there's no one letting the ambulances use the shortest routes on those occasions.

[VILLAMARV]

12 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

What protests have caused people harm and then the protesters justified it? 

Battle of Orgreave?

[Mandy Lifeboats]

15 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

If that were to happen it would be awful.

Before I left Cardiff, there was a protest that shut down the road outside the Castle gates, which if anyone knows Cardiff, means you just stopped one side of the city being connected to the other without a fair few miles of going out of your way. It absolutely had a potential for impacting emergency services response times. When ambulances and other emergency vehicles with their blues and two's on approached the blockade however, it parted like the red sea and they were applauded on their way.

some problems are easily solved with a simple risk assessment.

Weirdly though, no one seems to make the same point when they shut the same road because there's a rugby match at the stadium, or when access around the city is severely curtailed when the half marathon is on. And AFAIK there's no one letting the ambulances use the shortest routes on those occasions.

 

You are (of course) right.  

But the key point in my post was “blocking the road WITHOUT GIVING NOTICE”.  

The Ambulance Service know about rugby matches and marathons well in advance.  This gives them time to mitigate.  Protesters just closing a road is a different matter. 

 

[Mandy Lifeboats]

31 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

What protests have caused people harm and then the protesters justified it? 

I'm struggling to think of any.

Working from just memory: 

The storming of the Capitol Building by Trump Supporters.  A significant number of industrial disputes including the miners strike.  Various animal rights protests that targeted people.  
 

[tonyh29]

1 hour ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

But when protests inconvenience others it becomes a much more difficult topic.  Some people shouting things at the Coronation is acceptable.  

If 99.9% of people go to an event to enjoy it , should the .1% have the right to deliberately ruin that enjoyment under the guise of “it’s my right “ ? 

if I turned up at a vegan rally with “eat more meat” banners whilst giving out bacon sandwiches cause I’m exercising my right to protest , would that be cool , or would it be blatantly trying to antagonise and provoke…  and should I be removed ?

 

[DCJonah]

22 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

Working from just memory: 

The storming of the Capitol Building by Trump Supporters.  A significant number of industrial disputes including the miners strike.  Various animal rights protests that targeted people.  
 

The storming of the capitol was a violent insurrection. I'm not sure that's in the same park of what's being discussed. 

[VILLAMARV]

22 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

But the key point in my post was “blocking the road WITHOUT GIVING NOTICE”.  

The Ambulance Service know about rugby matches and marathons well in advance.  This gives them time to mitigate.  Protesters just closing a road is a different matter.

I caught that, and I appreciate the point. I think the protest in Cardiff I talked about liased with the police beforehand fwiw.

I don't believe that it's an unmanageable issue though, is my point. Whether advanced notice is given or not. It just relies on the will of people.

[chrisp65]

2 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

If 99.9% of people go to an event to enjoy it , should the .1% have the right to deliberately ruin that enjoyment under the guise of “it’s my right “ ? 

if I turned up at a vegan rally with “eat more meat” banners whilst giving out bacon sandwiches cause I’m exercising my right to protest , would that be cool , or would it be blatantly trying to antagonise and provoke…  and should I be removed ?

 

Personally, I think it would be absolutely your right to do that if you wanted to.

If you thought it was for the greater good and had some sort of facts to back it up, I’d bloody encourage you to do it.

Some police would think its their right to ‘contextually’ pre arrest you miles from the vegan event the night before it started, for possession of animal slaughter paraphernalia (bbq tongs).

Some on here would have the police beat you to a pulp with batons.

 

[StefanAVFC]

4 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

If 99.9% of people go to an event to enjoy it , should the .1% have the right to deliberately ruin that enjoyment under the guise of “it’s my right “ ? 

if I turned up at a vegan rally with “eat more meat” banners whilst giving out bacon sandwiches cause I’m exercising my right to protest , would that be cool , or would it be blatantly trying to antagonise and provoke…  and should I be removed ?

 

Not a great analogy is it?

People have a choice not to eat meat, we don't have a choice to not live under a king.

What are you actualling achieving in protesting a vegan rally? You still have the choice.

A better analogy would be enforced veganism throughout the country, and you showing up protesting that. And yes I'd fully support your right to do so, and be strongly against pre-emptively arresting you.