Genie Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 10 minutes ago, ender4 said: and why should a police van tailing 2 kids cause riots? Should be 5 year jail sentences as a minimum for anyone involved in attacking police. because the 2 kids are now dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Genie said: because the 2 kids are now dead Sorry, what has that got to do with anything? Are these criminals trying to say that it’s the police’s fault and they want vigilante thuggery to rule the streets instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 Just now, ender4 said: Sorry, what has that got to do with anything? Are these criminals trying to say that it’s the police’s fault and they want vigilante thuggery to rule the streets instead? I think it’s a couple of things. 1) Police should only pursue at speed if safe (clearly it wasn’t). Maybe they should be even more careful when minors are involved on a road, I don’t know the rule on that. 2) Police lied about it even happening. Of course rioting isn’t the answer, but that’s why there was rioting (to answer your question). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 32 minutes ago, ender4 said: and why should a police van tailing 2 kids cause riots? are you suggesting i've said it should? Or am I just being quoted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 1 hour ago, VILLAMARV said: are you suggesting i've said it should? Or am I just being quoted? Ohhh, no that wasn’t aimed at you, I was just following on the conversation from the guardian article you posted. Sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 1 minute ago, ender4 said: Ohhh, no that wasn’t aimed at you, I was just following on the conversation from the guardian article you posted. Sorry! No need to apologise, I was just checking whether to overreact or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Genie said: I think it’s a couple of things. 1) Police should only pursue at speed if safe (clearly it wasn’t). Maybe they should be even more careful when minors are involved on a road, I don’t know the rule on that. Oof, the police can’t win on that one. How many times over the years have the police been derided for not chasing criminals because they are on mopeds, scooters, etc. The right questions aren’t being asked. Why were the suspected criminals running away from the police? What had they done? Why did they speed into a bus with no regard for their own life? Why did the other thugs riot? Why haven’t the police issued a strong statement saying they will track down every rioter and will be dealt with the full force of the law for attacking emergency services. Edited May 23, 2023 by ender4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, ender4 said: Why were the criminals running away errr you meant suspects surely 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 The main question that springs to my mind is why was the media fed a false story this morning? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 6 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said: errr you meant suspects surely Yep changed it to suspected criminals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 11 minutes ago, ender4 said: Why did they speed into a bus with no regard for their own life? I think that’s possibly because of the police van that is chasing them. Obviously we don’t know the details but I’ve watched enough Police Interceptors to know they don’t pursue at speed in built up areas, and that’s cars. Kids on a motorbike in a housing estate I would assume is a massive no-no, hence why the police initially lied about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 43 minutes ago, ender4 said: Oof, the police can’t win on that one. How many times over the years have the police been derided for not chasing criminals because they are on mopeds, scooters, etc. I don't watch telly so maybe it happens there but I've never seen or heard anyone do this. 43 minutes ago, ender4 said: The right questions aren’t being asked. Why were the suspected criminals running away from the police? What had they done? We don't know and are unlikely to hear until a trial or hearing takes place. What potential crimes would make this incident acceptable in your eyes? 43 minutes ago, ender4 said: Why did they speed into a bus with no regard for their own life? Really? You think it was intentional? Or are you genuinely asking why accidents happen? 43 minutes ago, ender4 said: Why did the other thugs riot? Been covered as to why this would provoke a response from the community. Rioting is a reaction. 43 minutes ago, ender4 said: Why haven’t the police issued a strong statement saying they will track down every rioter and will be dealt with the full force of the law for attacking emergency services. Perhaps because 2 kids are dead. 2 families are grieving. If they ran into a bus then I'm guessing the driver is in shock after killing 2 kids at work and the passengers too. And all their families will be trying to cope with the fallout. This sort of event shocks a community - as it should. If this incident was the result of a police chase it would be rather crass to be all full force of the Law right now and would absolutely spark another reaction. After 'misinforming' the mornings press to control the narrative and blame it all on social media reactions in the community, as appears to have happened, it would be massively inappropriate. People will end up jailed just like in Mayhill. But the dust hasn't settled yet and the potential for more unrest should be higher up in the thoughts of senior officers than some meaningless quote that sounds like the Daily Mail. It's possible to condemn the rioting as well as accepting the kids involved may have been up to something they shouldn't and to be wholly against that hypothetical possibility and at the same time criticise what, at this stage, looks like a deliberate attempt to deceive the public that the police are supposed to serve. And at the same time as all that remembering the Justice system is based around an innocent until proven guilty principle, and rightly so. I can't believe you have no questions about finding out the truth. Except the bit about the 'criminals'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 Was it a bus they crashed with then? only done a brief mooney but can't find that mentioned on the sites I'm going to click on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 24, 2023 Moderator Share Posted May 24, 2023 Regardless of anything else those kids may and may not have done it’s illegal to have two on a bicycle with one seat. Also it seriously looks like that’s an illegally modified e-bike as in the video it certainly looks to be doing over 15.5 mph and given the weight of an e-bike and the extra body on it going above that speed pedalling over that speed on a legal bike which cuts out at 15.5 seems highly unlikely. That’s not to say the police should have been chasing them in the manner they did but there’s already evidence of criminality. The illegally modified bike (which makes it a moped technically) The 2 people on it, no driving licences (for moped) as they are too young, no insurance…. The danger to other road users and pedestrians is quite clear. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 (edited) Ok, lots of details are now known… The boys were feral criminals with a long track record of terrorising the neighbourhood. One of the kids comes from a very influential crime family who rule that area. When they found out that their kid had died, they messaged a lot of people to attack the police and basically organised the riots. It wasn’t spontaneous. A lot of local people are scared to speak out in the media because of the influence of this crime family, but not many local people are feeling sorry for this family. The video released by a member of the public from a ring doorbell was half a mile away from the crash. At the time of the crash, the police van was on a different street (one street away). That’s why there was conflicting information whether the police turned up after the crash or not. What is also true is that the police hadn’t messaged in to say they were chasing the boys as is protocol. They were ‘following’ the boys instead lol. They have probably chased/followed these 2 particular boys hundreds of times over the years. Edited May 24, 2023 by ender4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted May 24, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted May 24, 2023 1 hour ago, ender4 said: Ok, lots of details are now known… The boys were feral criminals with a long track record of terrorising the neighbourhood. One of the kids comes from a very influential crime family who rule that area. When they found out that their kid had died, they messaged a lot of people to attack the police and basically organised the riots. It wasn’t spontaneous. A lot of local people are scared to speak out in the media because of the influence of this crime family, but not many local people are feeling sorry for this family. The video released by a member of the public from a ring doorbell was half a mile away from the crash. At the time of the crash, the police van was on a different different street (one street away). That’s why there was conflicting information whether the police turned up after the crash or not. What is also true is that the police hadn’t message in to say they were chasing the boys as is protocol. They were ‘following’ the boys instead lol. They have probably chased/followed these 2 particular boys hundreds of times over the years. Not sure I believe that looking at this photo of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 24, 2023 Moderator Share Posted May 24, 2023 1 hour ago, ender4 said: The video released by a member of the public from a ring doorbell was half a mile away from the crash. At the time of the crash, the police van was on a different different street (one street away). That’s why there was conflicting information whether the police turned up after the crash or not. What is also true is that the police hadn’t message in to say they were chasing the boys as is protocol. They were ‘following’ the boys instead lol. There is is also speculation that the van just happened to be driving down the street to attend a domestic and if you look at the video, the police van (which wasn't the first vehicle on scene as that was a Police car) does not have it's blue lights on, which would be standard in a pursuit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 2 hours ago, ender4 said: Ok, lots of details are now known… The boys were feral criminals with a long track record of terrorising the neighbourhood. One of the kids comes from a very influential crime family who rule that area. When they found out that their kid had died, they messaged a lot of people to attack the police and basically organised the riots. It wasn’t spontaneous. A lot of local people are scared to speak out in the media because of the influence of this crime family, but not many local people are feeling sorry for this family. The video released by a member of the public from a ring doorbell was half a mile away from the crash. At the time of the crash, the police van was on a different street (one street away). That’s why there was conflicting information whether the police turned up after the crash or not. What is also true is that the police hadn’t messaged in to say they were chasing the boys as is protocol. They were ‘following’ the boys instead lol. They have probably chased/followed these 2 particular boys hundreds of times over the years. Any chance of you posting up the confirmation source that the dead kid’s parents planned and organised the riot. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 5 hours ago, ender4 said: lol Wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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