Police state or the state of policing

[VILLAMARV]

4 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

This is not a defence of the kids or an excuse for any behaviour. It’s not about picking a side, it’s about expecting a level of service from the police that should be easily achieved.

Yes, I’m holding the police to a higher standard than I would two kids.

This bit I agree with 100%

[VILLAMARV]

....and all your next post chris. But just to add or condense from before..

IF (yeah, in bold to highlight it's presence!) it transpires that they were following them round the estate seconds/minutes before the fatal accident, then they were following them round the estate in the build up to this fatal accident. As we keep saying it's not necessarily about finding criminal culpability. If they were following them about as it would appear from cameras and eye witnesses then why? and why lie about it? There were headlines like this in the papers, this from the Guardian -Police admit following e-bike before crash that killed Cardiff teenagers

And the context is in the question of "Why was there a riot down Ely the other night?" So why keep coming back to they weren't 'chasing' them? - It surely looks like there's more to this story - whatever your politics or takes on the justice system or whether you're happy with de-humanising them or not.

I personally had no issue with the incident as it was presented to me on tuesday morning, it's just by tuesday tea time it turned out that wasn't entirely accurate - or at the very best just questionable enough to self refer to the self investigation dept. My own emotional response is definitely to the "false rumours" on "social media" quote from Alun Michaels that did all the news and pacified the interest in the story to huge swathes of the population. I haven't been made aware of the evolving nature of the story being given the same sort of coverage though. Blaming liars on the internet woke everyone up on the today programme though eh.

As for the vid bicks, there's any number of reasons why they are slower/ further behind etc - and again the police have said they were following, no? I'll give you this though, that bike looks quick.

 

[bickster]

Here's a public order offence from yesterday's FA Cup Final

Quote

A man was arrested at the FA Cup final at Wembley for wearing a Manchester United shirt which had an offensive reference to the Hillsborough disaster, in which 97 Liverpool fans died.

A photograph was circulated on Twitter by what appeared to be a Liverpool fan account called @LiverpoolPhotox which showed the back of the man's shirt with the number 97 on it and the words 'Not enough'.

SKY

Is the man wearing that shirt a word removed?... IMO... undoubtedly yes

Does wearing that shirt at a football match between Man Utd and Man City constitute a public order offence? I'm really not so sure

Had it been at a Liverpool or an Everton game, then yes it clearly would be a public order offence, there really would be a risk to public safety and the idiot himself

We're back in the realms of the police determining what causes offence based on social media outcry from people hundreds of miles away

This is policing by noise on the internet, absolutely no chance they'd have done anything on the ground without that noise.

[VILLAMARV]

IIRC it was Harriet Harmon all those years ago now that I remember saying something like

"Well, it might not be a criminal offense, but it's not going to wash in the court of public opinion."

And Lo... etc

[Mark Albrighton]

Quote

After 20 years protesting his innocence - 17 of them from inside prison, Andy Malkinson's conviction for rape has been quashed.

The Crown Prosecution Service did not contest his appeal in a case that raises serious questions about why he was jailed in the first place.

The Court of Appeal's decision comes after DNA evidence implicated another man in the crime.

No forensic evidence linked Malkinson to the attack in 2003.

BBC link

Would appear that this conviction was a bit of a **** up.

Hopefully Mr Malkinson can try and put this behind him (easier said than done) and enjoy the rest of his life.

And if he wanted to earn a few quid from compensation, that wouldn’t be out of order either. 

[delboy54]

Just watching this in the telly box. Awful decision to lock an innocent man up for 17 years on no evidence other than a bloke who lied and days later was proven to be a liar and yet Malkinson was still sent down.

I wonder how many other poor sods are in the same position banged up in jail yet innocent.

Why does this sort of thing take so long to sort out? Lawyers and police dragging it out because they didnt want to be shown up as being wrong and admit mistakes I suppose.

Doesnt make me feel confident about our justice system to be honest

 

[luckyeddie]

Jesus, it just gets worse. There was evidence to quash Andy Malkinson's sentence in 2009, they just deemed it too expensive. Probably cheaper than the £12 million to get a prince off the hook, but not an innocent man. I'm sure they will "learn from their mistakes and it will not happen again" until the next time. My guess is nobody will pay for the cover up. Gotta feel empathy for the man, no end of money will compensate for 17 years in prison, seen as a sexual predator by other inmates.

[Risso]

I was gobsmacked to hear about this case today, how on earth do you deal with losing 17 years of your life for a crime you didn't commit?

[magnkarl]

So I was stopped by the now famous Hampshire traffic police today, apparently for a broken reverse indicator light (how they figured this out when I was going down the M3 is beyond me). In order to show the officer that it worked I put the car in reverse and the lights came on fine. He then wanted me to drive to the nearest services so I could drive with them on, in case of a 'faulty wire'. I did, and sure enough there was absolutely nothing wrong.

I asked him to call his superiors and for his ID. At this point the constable gets absolutely barking mad and started pushing about me just 'accepting the bloody fine'. I asked him if I was being detained or was under arrest, and his answer was 'you will be if you don't do as I say'. He puts me in cuffs (I'm an old man, what am I going to do), and shoves me into the police car. I was having none of this bully, so I just said I want a lawyer. He then proceeds to drive me up and down the M3 for half an hour trying to get me to admit that my car was not legal (it's a bloody Nissan ariya 2022). Why would I tamper with it?

While in the car I told the constable that my car has cameras, and by luck I had turned recording on when he stopped me, whereby he said that these won't be able to 'sort anything out'. I then said I'm pressing charges for how he's treating me and he finally let me off at the other end of the services so I had to walk to my car in the pissing rain. Today I've spent half an hour talking to different superiors of this guy who has now been suspended pending investigation about how they'd love to talk to me (probably to avoid me taking them to court).

I'm wondering if anyone else has any idea what I'd be expecting if I take them to court? I've got the whole 28 minute conversation in his patrol vehicle on my phone (be sure to have Siri active so you can ask her to record in this sort of situation), he makes threats, abuses me, asks why my name is so 'funny' etc. At this point I was shocked and barely responded to his behaviour. I'm sure I came off as a smart-arse in the start of this stop when he wouldn't listen to me about the light working, but I don't think what he did was warranted at all. Hampshire police has a massive issue with their constables being absolute bullies.

[Mister_a]

46 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

So I was stopped by the now famous Hampshire traffic police today, apparently for a broken reverse indicator light (how they figured this out when I was going down the M3 is beyond me). In order to show the officer that it worked I put the car in reverse and the lights came on fine. He then wanted me to drive to the nearest services so I could drive with them on, in case of a 'faulty wire'. I did, and sure enough there was absolutely nothing wrong.

I asked him to call his superiors and for his ID. At this point the constable gets absolutely barking mad and started pushing about me just 'accepting the bloody fine'. I asked him if I was being detained or was under arrest, and his answer was 'you will be if you don't do as I say'. He puts me in cuffs (I'm an old man, what am I going to do), and shoves me into the police car. I was having none of this bully, so I just said I want a lawyer. He then proceeds to drive me up and down the M3 for half an hour trying to get me to admit that my car was not legal (it's a bloody Nissan ariya 2022). Why would I tamper with it?

While in the car I told the constable that my car has cameras, and by luck I had turned recording on when he stopped me, whereby he said that these won't be able to 'sort anything out'. I then said I'm pressing charges for how he's treating me and he finally let me off at the other end of the services so I had to walk to my car in the pissing rain. Today I've spent half an hour talking to different superiors of this guy who has now been suspended pending investigation about how they'd love to talk to me (probably to avoid me taking them to court).

I'm wondering if anyone else has any idea what I'd be expecting if I take them to court? I've got the whole 28 minute conversation in his patrol vehicle on my phone (be sure to have Siri active so you can ask her to record in this sort of situation), he makes threats, abuses me, asks why my name is so 'funny' etc. At this point I was shocked and barely responded to his behaviour. I'm sure I came off as a smart-arse in the start of this stop when he wouldn't listen to me about the light working, but I don't think what he did was warranted at all. Hampshire police has a massive issue with their constables being absolute bullies.

Sounds like one for HNK to me, especially if you have it all recorded.

Civil Actions Against the Police | Higgs Newton Kenyon Solicitors (hnksolicitors.com)

[Davkaus]

Too late now, but I'd not have mentioned the recording, it'd have been very fun to see him lie about the situation and then present the evidence he's lied.

[magnkarl]

16 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Too late now, but I'd not have mentioned the recording, it'd have been very fun to see him lie about the situation and then present the evidence he's lied.

Yeah, in hindsight that's probably smart. But I felt like he was really on edge and this would likely put him off doing something he shouldn't have.

[rjw63]

1 hour ago, magnkarl said:

So I was stopped by the now famous Hampshire traffic police today, apparently for a broken reverse indicator light (how they figured this out when I was going down the M3 is beyond me). In order to show the officer that it worked I put the car in reverse and the lights came on fine. He then wanted me to drive to the nearest services so I could drive with them on, in case of a 'faulty wire'. I did, and sure enough there was absolutely nothing wrong.

I asked him to call his superiors and for his ID. At this point the constable gets absolutely barking mad and started pushing about me just 'accepting the bloody fine'. I asked him if I was being detained or was under arrest, and his answer was 'you will be if you don't do as I say'. He puts me in cuffs (I'm an old man, what am I going to do), and shoves me into the police car. I was having none of this bully, so I just said I want a lawyer. He then proceeds to drive me up and down the M3 for half an hour trying to get me to admit that my car was not legal (it's a bloody Nissan ariya 2022). Why would I tamper with it?

While in the car I told the constable that my car has cameras, and by luck I had turned recording on when he stopped me, whereby he said that these won't be able to 'sort anything out'. I then said I'm pressing charges for how he's treating me and he finally let me off at the other end of the services so I had to walk to my car in the pissing rain. Today I've spent half an hour talking to different superiors of this guy who has now been suspended pending investigation about how they'd love to talk to me (probably to avoid me taking them to court).

I'm wondering if anyone else has any idea what I'd be expecting if I take them to court? I've got the whole 28 minute conversation in his patrol vehicle on my phone (be sure to have Siri active so you can ask her to record in this sort of situation), he makes threats, abuses me, asks why my name is so 'funny' etc. At this point I was shocked and barely responded to his behaviour. I'm sure I came off as a smart-arse in the start of this stop when he wouldn't listen to me about the light working, but I don't think what he did was warranted at all. Hampshire police has a massive issue with their constables being absolute bullies.

'Kinnell, hope that never happens to me because I know I'll lose it and then be on the end of a proper truncheoning.

Absolute scum masquerading as law enforcement.

[chrisp65]

46 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Yeah, in hindsight that's probably smart. But I felt like he was really on edge and this would likely put him off doing something he shouldn't have.

I think you did the right thing. You don’t really want things to escalate for a bigger ‘gotcha’ you want it resolved as soon as possible. Letting them know you have your own record of events is sensible.

 

[blandy]

1 hour ago, magnkarl said:

So I was stopped by the now famous Hampshire traffic police today, apparently for a broken reverse indicator light (how they figured this out when I was going down the M3 is beyond me). In order to show the officer that it worked I put the car in reverse and the lights came on fine. He then wanted me to drive to the nearest services so I could drive with them on, in case of a 'faulty wire'. I did, and sure enough there was absolutely nothing wrong.

I asked him to call his superiors and for his ID. At this point the constable gets absolutely barking mad and started pushing about me just 'accepting the bloody fine'. I asked him if I was being detained or was under arrest, and his answer was 'you will be if you don't do as I say'. He puts me in cuffs (I'm an old man, what am I going to do), and shoves me into the police car. I was having none of this bully, so I just said I want a lawyer. He then proceeds to drive me up and down the M3 for half an hour trying to get me to admit that my car was not legal (it's a bloody Nissan ariya 2022). Why would I tamper with it?

While in the car I told the constable that my car has cameras, and by luck I had turned recording on when he stopped me, whereby he said that these won't be able to 'sort anything out'. I then said I'm pressing charges for how he's treating me and he finally let me off at the other end of the services so I had to walk to my car in the pissing rain. Today I've spent half an hour talking to different superiors of this guy who has now been suspended pending investigation about how they'd love to talk to me (probably to avoid me taking them to court).

I'm wondering if anyone else has any idea what I'd be expecting if I take them to court? I've got the whole 28 minute conversation in his patrol vehicle on my phone (be sure to have Siri active so you can ask her to record in this sort of situation), he makes threats, abuses me, asks why my name is so 'funny' etc. At this point I was shocked and barely responded to his behaviour. I'm sure I came off as a smart-arse in the start of this stop when he wouldn't listen to me about the light working, but I don't think what he did was warranted at all. Hampshire police has a massive issue with their constables being absolute bullies.

Don't let them get away with it. You've also got the news media you could go to - if it's recorded as you say, then you're in a super strong position. Presumably your phone was with you when the copper cuffed you and shoved you into his car and drove you and dropped you off - it'll show your movements (and speed - walking, driven, etc.), to further back up your case.

[magnkarl]

30 minutes ago, blandy said:

Don't let them get away with it. You've also got the news media you could go to - if it's recorded as you say, then you're in a super strong position. Presumably your phone was with you when the copper cuffed you and shoved you into his car and drove you and dropped you off - it'll show your movements (and speed - walking, driven, etc.), to further back up your case.

Good idea, I've spoken to a solicitor today who's essentially said he could make it blow up nationally if I so chose. I'm not sure however, there's many bad apples in the police around here and I don't know if I fancy the repercussions. Hilariously someone from the police called my manager today and said I've been causing trouble and I shouldn't be employed.

My manager recorded the conversation and forwarded it to me, including the part where he berates the police for making false accusations with absolutely zero proof and that he'll join in on any lawsuit. Turns out the caller was the officers patrol partner.

You'd think I lived in Italy the way these cowboys are behaving. The psychological state some of these immature young men are in should disqualify them from having any sort of position of power. 

Thinking an off-camera agreement\complaint in the first place is my family's best bet, and then maybe driving the screw down if they don't play ball. Calling my manager like that is next level corrupt though.

Edited September 29, 2023 by magnkarl

[Harkanon]

Wtf.  Calling your manager?  Maybe you should go to the media to stop any further corrupt behaviour towards yourself and your family/work/friends.  If they think they can get away with this then they will continue.  They need to be publicly shamed to correct their course.

[bickster]

32 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Good idea, I've spoken to a solicitor today who's essentially said he could make it blow up nationally if I so chose. I'm not sure however, there's many bad apples in the police around here and I don't know if I fancy the repercussions. Hilariously someone from the police called my manager today and said I've been causing trouble and I shouldn't be employed.

My manager recorded the conversation and forwarded it to me, including the part where he berates the police for making false accusations with absolutely zero proof and that he'll join in on any lawsuit. Turns out the caller was the officers patrol partner.

You'd think I lived in Italy the way these cowboys are behaving. The psychological state some of these immature young men are in should disqualify them from having any sort of position of power. 

Thinking an off-camera agreement\complaint in the first place is my family's best bet, and then maybe driving the screw down if they don't play ball. Calling my manager like that is next level corrupt though.

I got where you were coming from until the phoned your manager bit.

I'd be off to the IOPC at this stage... and I'd also be getting the second officer suspended too

[magnkarl]

1 minute ago, bickster said:

I got where you were coming from until the phoned your manager bit.

I'd be off to the IOPC at this stage

Yeah, I think I just need the weekend to think about what I do next. It's been one of the most intense days of my life.

Cracking open a good whisky tonight that's for sure.

[bickster]

Also, I really wouldn't worry about yourself or your family. After making the complaint, any more incidents with the Police that cannot be justified would count as harassment, including stopping your vehicle for no good reason