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Wesley Moraes

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24 minutes ago, Robbie09 said:

Seen enough of Wes to be confident he’ll be a huge success. Astounded people are writing him off so soon.

I think what's really made it hard for him is the fact he is the lone striker, and we don't have much backup on the bench. People are panicking because of that. In a front 2 he'd probably have done enough to keep people off his back.

It's going to be a tough old season for him whatever happens, but could be the making of him.

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2 hours ago, KentVillan said:

I think what's really made it hard for him is the fact he is the lone striker, and we don't have much backup on the bench. People are panicking because of that. In a front 2 he'd probably have done enough to keep people off his back.

It's going to be a tough old season for him whatever happens, but could be the making of him.

but that's where the wingers should be playing higher up the pitch.....in order to do that they need to be getting around the back of their full backs and subsequently then our full backs need to be pushing on to support them and the midfield pushing up to support the middle.......its a team thing, One dep't fails and the whole thing is suspect.

It all sounds easy......but the crucial thing is the players need to win their individual battles against their opposite number.....if we have too many losing out we will struggle.

Edited by TRO
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2 hours ago, Robbie09 said:

Seen enough of Wes to be confident he’ll be a huge success. Astounded people are writing him off so soon.

Not disagreeing with you....but can you tell us what you are seeing to make you think that?

From what I have seen, I think there is much work to do....but not writing him off or saying he is beyond it.....must say, his expression is not filling me with hope, the whinging has to stop and the revenge( if that's the right word) needs to start.

It is far too early to judge, but its not the absence of goals, its the absence of some of the work that leads to goals that concerns me.

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, TRO said:

but that's where the wingers should be playing higher up the pitch.....in order to do that they need to be getting around the back of their full backs and subsequently the our full backs need to be pushing on to support them and the midfield pushing up to support.......its a team thing, One dep't fails and the whole thing is suspect.

It all sounds easy......but the crucial thing is the players need to win their individual battles against their opposite number.....if we have too many losing out we will struggle.

Perhaps. I think the other big mistake people are making is in reading too much into one game where we had little chance of winning, and another game where the opposition got two very lucky early goals. We wouldn't be having this conversation if we'd beaten Bournemouth 1-0 or if our opening fixture had been against Newcastle.

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21 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

Perhaps. I think the other big mistake people are making is in reading too much into one game where we had little chance of winning, and another game where the opposition got two very lucky early goals. We wouldn't be having this conversation if we'd beaten Bournemouth 1-0 or if our opening fixture had been against Newcastle.

you make a fair point.....but for me, I think we played better against Spurs than Bournemouth.

The irony for me is, on reflection we probably had more chance of getting a result in the first as opposed to the second..... 4 minutes away plus added time.

let me explain my thinking.

  • We was away at Spurs, against a top 4 side.....We started well and was winning in a period of 70 minutes of the match, its fairly obvious under such circumstances we would concede territory and we did....tired legs led to tired minds and rest is history.
  • Bournemouth, came out of the traps with energy and tenacity and all their players looked like they were built ( upper body wise) for a personal battle.....They forced those errors on us, their energy undone us, and we panicked in to those aberrations.That changed the dynamic of the game all Bournemouth had to do was contain us and they did.....our suspect finishing helped granted ( Jack should have headed that ball in) but their work was completed after 15 minutes. I didn't see quite the same energy from Bournemouth after the 2 goals, just a team well equipped physically to deny us.

That's roughly why I think the Spurs game was better for us.....also I think most neutrals thought we played better against Spurs too.

I have many thoughts on our season to come.....but I still have one single worry....still( like i did last year and the year before)........... when opponents set out to get about us, i.e squeeze or press us......We look at our most uncomfortable and our game goes down a level, our ability to mix it leaves me in grave doubt......we still have a number of players who look uncomfortable with it, excluding SJM and Mingsy.....that for me is not enough, I want to see some players who relish the battle.

 

 

Edited by TRO

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11 minutes ago, TRO said:

you make a fair point.....but for me, I think we played better against Spurs than Bournemouth.

The irony for me is, on reflection we probably had more chance of getting a result in the first as opposed to the second..... 4 minutes away plus added time.

let me explain my thinking.

  • We was away at Spurs, against a top 4 side.....We started well and was winning in a period of 70 minutes of the match, its fairly obvious under such circumstances we would concede territory and we did....tired legs led to tired minds and rest is history.
  • Bournemouth, came out of the traps with energy and tenacity and all their players looked like they were built ( upper body wise) for a personal battle.....They forced those errors on us, their energy undone us, and we panicked in to those aberrations.That changed the dynamic of the game all Bournemouth had to do was contain us and they did.....our suspect finishing helped granted ( Jack should have headed that ball in) but their work was completed after 15 minutes. I didn't see quite the same energy from Bournemouth after the 2 goals, just a team well equipped physically to deny us.

That's roughly why I think the Spurs game was better for us.....also I think most neutrals thought we played better against Spurs too.

I have many thoughts on our season to come.....but I still have one single worry....still( like i did last year and the year before)........... when opponents set out to get about us, i.e squeeze or press us......We look at our most uncomfortable and our game goes down a level, our ability to mix it leaves me in grave doubt......we still have a number of players who look uncomfortable with it, excluding SJM and Mingsy.....that for me is not enough, I want to see some players who relish the battle.

 

 

i quite strongly disagree with the bolded part. The ball through for wilson was overhit and would've been gobbled up by heaton had he remembered that as a goalkeeper, he's allowed to pick the ball up with his hands.

trezeguet then played a hospital pass square in our own 3rd of the pitch and luiz then thought it was a smashing idea to let the ball run between his legs. neither of these were the result of any form of energy on their part.

strong statement, but i actually think we'd have won that game in spite of the 2 early goals had wesley not been the lone striker. the jury is still out on him (personally so far i'm less than impressed with his contribution) but i do think he needs support. we've seen enough of our back 4 that for me, we dont actually need the CDM against the so called lesser teams. jack and mcginn will cover every blade of grass anyway, so there's no danger of them not tracking back to provide added support, so why can we not go a good old fashioned 4-4-2?

i appreciate the lack of a fully fit 2nd striker is an issue at the moment...but i'd be putting kodj straight in when he's ready

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7 minutes ago, TRO said:

you make a fair point.....but for me, I think we played better against Spurs than Bournemouth.

let me explain my thinking.

  • We was away at Spurs, against a top 4 side.....We started well and was winning in a period of 70 minutes of the match, its fairly obvious under such circumstances we would concede territory and we did....tired legs led to tired minds and rest is history.
  • Bournemouth, came out of the traps with energy and tenacity and all their players looked like they were built ( upper body wise) for a personal battle.....The forced those errors on us, their energy undone us, and we panicked in to those aberrations.That changed the dynamic of the game all Bournemouth had to do was contain us and they did.....our suspect finishing helped granted ( Jack should have headed that ball in) but their work was completed after 15 minutes. I didn't see quite the same energy from Bournemouth after the 2 goals, just a team well equipped physically to deny us.

That's roughly why I think the Spurs game was better for us.....also I think most neutrals thought we played better against Spurs too.

I have many thoughts on our season to come.....but I still have one single worry....still( like i did last year and the year before)........... when opponents set out to get about us, i.e squeeze or press us......We look at our most uncomfortable and our game goes down a level, our ability to mix it leaves me in grave doubt......we still have a number of players who look uncomfortable with it, excluding SJM and Mingsy.....that for me is not enough, I want to see some players who relish the battle.

 

 

I get where you're coming from, and don't necessarily disagree.

You could argue that most neutrals think we played better against Spurs because the game was screened in full on Sky, they saw how hard Spurs had to work for the result, and everyone backs the plucky underdog in that situation.

Whereas against Bournemouth they just saw the MOTD highlights, which was mostly a series of catastrophic blunders. The more of that Bournemouth game you watch, the more you see Bournemouth on the back foot.

Don't get me wrong, mistakes are important, but I think people draw lazy conclusions from highlights (especially when the analysis is being phoned in by Danny Murphy).

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17 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

I get where you're coming from, and don't necessarily disagree.

You could argue that most neutrals think we played better against Spurs because the game was screened in full on Sky, they saw how hard Spurs had to work for the result, and everyone backs the plucky underdog in that situation.

Whereas against Bournemouth they just saw the MOTD highlights, which was mostly a series of catastrophic blunders. The more of that Bournemouth game you watch, the more you see Bournemouth on the back foot.

Don't get me wrong, mistakes are important, but I think people draw lazy conclusions from highlights (especially when the analysis is being phoned in by Danny Murphy).

I don't like him at all.....but I think his analysis was right.

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23 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

i quite strongly disagree with the bolded part. The ball through for wilson was overhit and would've been gobbled up by heaton had he remembered that as a goalkeeper, he's allowed to pick the ball up with his hands.

trezeguet then played a hospital pass square in our own 3rd of the pitch and luiz then thought it was a smashing idea to let the ball run between his legs. neither of these were the result of any form of energy on their part.

strong statement, but i actually think we'd have won that game in spite of the 2 early goals had wesley not been the lone striker. the jury is still out on him (personally so far i'm less than impressed with his contribution) but i do think he needs support. we've seen enough of our back 4 that for me, we dont actually need the CDM against the so called lesser teams. jack and mcginn will cover every blade of grass anyway, so there's no danger of them not tracking back to provide added support, so why can we not go a good old fashioned 4-4-2?

i appreciate the lack of a fully fit 2nd striker is an issue at the moment...but i'd be putting kodj straight in when he's ready

In the first 12 minutes they were camped in our half the balls being played in were being met by players willing to muscle us and it unhinged us....the bit of semi-panic set in......I think that type of play forced those errors on us.....sorry, just my opinion that I share with dreaded Danny Murphy.

That ball played between the lines unhinged us and Heaton reacted slowly and uncharacteristically......Forced Error for me.

Edited by TRO

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26 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

I get where you're coming from, and don't necessarily disagree.

You could argue that most neutrals think we played better against Spurs because the game was screened in full on Sky, they saw how hard Spurs had to work for the result, and everyone backs the plucky underdog in that situation.

Whereas against Bournemouth they just saw the MOTD highlights, which was mostly a series of catastrophic blunders. The more of that Bournemouth game you watch, the more you see Bournemouth on the back foot.

Don't get me wrong, mistakes are important, but I think people draw lazy conclusions from highlights (especially when the analysis is being phoned in by Danny Murphy).

haha can't stand the little runt....but that does not deter me from agreeing with him if I think he's right.....I thought he was.

fair comment about the air time......I was at the game and thought that we would not win, just a slight chance of a draw after the worldy from Luiz.

I thought they contained us with a natural physicality of many seasons in the Prem.....they looked streetwise.....after the 2 errors they just closed the game up and reduced us to snatching at things, for sure our goal unnerved them and that came back a bit.

I never felt comfortable in that game at all.....despite the errors......I feel that if the errors were unforced, we need not worry going forward.......but if Everton play a similar game to Bournemouth, I fear the worst.

I think we need to stop the opposition better than we are.....if I was talking Liverpool or Man City, I wouldn't be making these observations as they are just purely better than us.

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4 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said:

For Moraes to thrive, we need 2 up front.

In theory we have 3 up front. DS wants to play a genuine 4-3-3, but so far it's been more of a 4-1-4-1.

When you look at Firmino at Liverpool (who also isn't a natural lone striker), his role works because he has goal threats either side of him.

Clearly we're not going to replicate the threat of Mane and Salah, but we could certainly get a bit closer to that kind of shape. It may come as we get more stability in central midfield, and higher fullbacks.

I think we were robbed of the chance to find out whether that was possible against Bournemouth, because they scored the early goal. The high front 3 with the false 9 works much better on the counter attack or counter press, and we never had a chance to test that against Bournemouth because they parked the bus.

It may also be that we need Guilbert or Targett in to push the wingers higher, but I understand why DS has reservations about them defensively.

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1 hour ago, TRO said:

but that's where the wingers should be playing higher up the pitch.....in order to do that they need to be getting around the back of their full backs and subsequently then our full backs need to be pushing on to support them and the midfield pushing up to support the middle.......its a team thing, One dep't fails and the whole thing is suspect.

It all sounds easy......but the crucial thing is the players need to win their individual battles against their opposite number.....if we have too many losing out we will struggle.

That's why I think we need Guilbert and Targett in.

It is not that Elmohamady and Taylor have been playing badly, just that they are lacking the fast paced aggression on the wings that I think we have lacked so far.

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4 hours ago, Robbie09 said:

Seen enough of Wes to be confident he’ll be a huge success. Astounded people are writing him off so soon.

I'm not writing him off, just concerned he isn't going to get the goals we need. 

What have you seen to think he'll be a huge success?

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19 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I'm not writing him off, just concerned he isn't going to get the goals we need. 

What have you seen to think he'll be a huge success?

Probably the price tag

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42 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I'm not writing him off, just concerned he isn't going to get the goals we need. 

What have you seen to think he'll be a huge success?

As long as he gets between 8 and 12 goals and 5+ assists then that will be enough for us to stay up.

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12 minutes ago, omariqy said:

As long as he gets between 8 and 12 goals and 5+ assists then that will be enough for us to stay up.

Maybe. As long as others step up. 

Really hope he can nick one tomorrow night or at least dominate for most of the game. 

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