bickster Posted June 11, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 11, 2020 2 hours ago, Demitri_C said: I think your defending the small minority of vandal protesters too much there and not holding them accountable for giving them a excuse to those thugs coming to start trouble. Clearly if they wanted to just start trouble without being antagonised they would have turned up last week. There is enough of them more than the "alleged" 20 Dem, can you let me in on the secret of reading invisible text on the internet? And whatever you saw typed in invisible text wasn't typed by me! I really do wonder what it is that you think you've read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 12 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: That’s a fair point but if the law stands and watches does it not increase the likelihood of people who are not happy about the statues being pulled down taking the law in to their own hands? If the Police enforced every law all the time we’d all be convicted criminals including the Police themselves. Policing is primarily protecting society and sometimes that means standing by. If the Police has waded into the crown it could have become a riot. In riots people get seriously hurt. That includes Police, Rioters and innocent bystanders. No statue is worth that. But the matter has been reported as a crime so the a Police will investigate. If the culprits are identified they will be arrested and probably go to court. What you are saying is that Rosa Parkes should have been dragged off the bus and thrown in jail to stop people who want racial segregation from taking the law into their own hands and throwing her off the bus. At the time it happened many would consider that to be a perfectly reasonable standpoint. She broke the law. But history views the matter differently. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 26 minutes ago, Awol said: That’s how you reach the mental frame where anyone objecting to wanton vandalism or destruction of historical monuments can be called Fascists. I think you accidentally made this up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said: If the Police enforced every law all the time we’d all be convicted criminals including the Police themselves. Policing is primarily protecting society and sometimes that means standing by. If the Police has waded into the crown it could have become a riot. In riots people get seriously hurt. That includes Police, Rioters and innocent bystanders. No statue is worth that. But the matter has been reported as a crime so the a Police will investigate. If the culprits are identified they will be arrested and probably go to court. What you are saying is that Rosa Parkes should have been dragged off the bus and thrown in jail to stop people who want racial segregation from taking the law into their own hands and throwing her off the bus. At the time it happened many would consider that to be a perfectly reasonable standpoint. She broke the law. But history views the matter differently. Nicely put. For the record. The highlighted part will do for me. Edited June 11, 2020 by Vive_La_Villa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Awol said: Yes, but it’s easy to understand. People who formerly thought themselves to be centrist or centre-left cantered off merrily to the far-left in pursuit of Corbynism. From that position the centre-right now looks like the right, and the right looks like the far-right. That’s how you reach the mental frame where anyone objecting to wanton vandalism or destruction of historical monuments can be called Fascists. It’s how you go from slave-traders to Baden-Powell via Gladstone in 48 hours without missing a beat, or even realising how far-left fringe you’ve become. Then you can hypothesise about other posters being on a political journey to the dark-side without a hint of irony or self-awareness. It’s hilarious. It seems you have invented a character in your head to have a rant about there. I believe that is called a ‘straw man’ argument. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Normally people call it 'moving the Overton Window', and I'm thrilled that people think it's happening, but sadly I'm more skeptical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 11, 2020 Author Share Posted June 11, 2020 Some simply astonishing posts in the last few pages. Some have well and truly jumped into the deep end of the pool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 2 hours ago, bickster said: Dem, can you let me in on the secret of reading invisible text on the internet? And whatever you saw typed in invisible text wasn't typed by me! I really do wonder what it is that you think you've read Lets agree to disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 11, 2020 Author Share Posted June 11, 2020 FYIW (and completely off topic I know) the people who liked and supported Corbyn were outnumbered vastly on this site. It's all just total twaddle to justify the 'racism is bad but' arguments and 'my mate said' shite that has been ongoing over the last day. Total distraction. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 6 hours ago, Keyblade said: I normally hate references to 1984 and Orwell but there's gotta be one of those snazzy words in there that encapsulates using the term LeftWaffe to denote opposition to literal **** fascists. If you’re a fan of the great man’s book then here’s one for you: ‘Every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered.Books rewritten. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.' Can probably be seen on quite a few shaving mirrors in the morning if you look hard enough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post tom_avfc Posted June 11, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 11, 2020 The last few pages of this thread are up there with the strangest I’ve seen on Villatalk. There’s people seemingly advocating a load of Tommy Robinson EDL types turning up to cause trouble at protests under the pretence of protecting statues. Meanwhile those who don’t see the need for this force of vigilante statue protectors are now part of the “Leftwaffe”. If 2020 was a film script it’d be binned for being too farfetched. I genuinely dread to think what’s going to happen next this year. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, tom_avfc said: There’s people seemingly advocating a load of Tommy Robinson EDL types turning up to cause trouble at protests under the pretence of protecting statues. Do us a favour, please quote the post where anyone in this thread has advocated Tommy Robinson and his mates turning up anywhere and doing anything? I’ve seen plenty of people calling him a fascist but no one suggesting what you’ve just written. Edited June 11, 2020 by Awol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Awol said: If you’re a fan of the great man’s book then here’s one for you: ‘Every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered.Books rewritten. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.' Can probably be seen on quite a few shaving mirrors in the morning if you look hard enough. And this is why I don't like Orwell quotes; they're almost always misapplied. Statues aren't history, we've already established this. Funnily enough though, the tearing down of the statue of the good philanthropist did more to teach people about history than the entire 200 years of it just standing there. Question to you though, do you not consider Robinson to be a fascist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 11, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 11, 2020 8 hours ago, Awol said: I know a few veterans who are going (completely separate from football people) to stop the war memorials being vandalised again, on the basis that the police won’t. If they are physically attacked then yes, of course they’ll defend themselves. Robinson and his neo-fascist brothers are definitely going for a fight. I think the police will decide to do some actual policing this weekend because the alternative will be very ugly. Seemingly the only person that has actually called Yaxley-Lennon a Fascist in this topic is.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Keyblade said: And this is why I don't like Orwell quotes; they're almost always misapplied. Statues aren't history, we've already established this. Funnily enough though, the tearing down of the statue of the good philanthropist did more to teach people about history than the entire 200 years of it just standing there. Question to you though, do you not consider Robinson to be a fascist? No, I consider him to be a neo-fascist. That why I called him one in this thread today. He should probably be in prison, and by Monday he probably will be. Hooray for that. Edit: and statues are part of the cultural milieu that constitutes our history, for good or ill. Edited June 11, 2020 by Awol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) Is it bad I have no idea who this person is and there’s 15 pages? Edited June 11, 2020 by Vive_La_Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_avfc Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 7 minutes ago, Awol said: Do us a favour, please quote the post where anyone in this thread has advocated Tommy Robinson and his mates turning up anywhere and doing anything? I’ve seen plenty of people calling him a fascist but no one suggesting what you’ve just written. Yeah sorry that’s me reading between the lines a bit although the implication of some of what’s been written here isn’t far from that. When someone suggests that there’ll be 20 EDL types there we get the almost gleeful “oh there’ll be more than that” type posts never mind the 35k (including black lads) comment as if the fact that there being black people involved lends the whole EDL movement some credence as opposed to the racist rubbish that it is. When we get reports that Tommy Robinson is mobilising the troops to fight whatever their latest grievance is the response should be to condemn him and his attempts to fan the flames of the current unrest . Some on here seem to be more keen to point fingers at those taking down statues as if they deserve what is coming to them for daring to speak out about years of systemic suffering and sadly more prevalently now outright abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted June 11, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 11, 2020 Quote But historian David Olusoga, interviewed on the BBC after Colston’s memorial was sent tumbling into Bristol harbour, said: “Statues aren’t the mechanism by which we understand history. We learn history through museums, through books, through television programmes. Statues are about adoration, about saying that this man was a great man and he did great things." https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-statues-removed-down-colston-rhodes-baden-powell-racism-a9560736.html 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted June 11, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Is it bad I have no idea who this person is and there’s 15 pages? You DO know who he is. It's just that he's not who he's led you and others to believe. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: You DO know who he is. It's just that he's not who he's led you and others to believe. Oh it’s Tommy bloody Robinson!! God I’m slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts