Racism Part two

[lapal_fan]

9 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Had India invaded and occupied Britain, I’d have far more leeway for someone using nasty words against India and Indians.

But as the glove was on the other foot, I’m not sure it helps his case that he was in conflict with them at the time.

The very reason we were in any conflict in India, was because we were a colonial power in another country. Bloody ungrateful Indians, staying over there, supplying our tea.

 

1 minute ago, Demitri_C said:

Well if he said dont buy from whites and again i stress alledgly than that is utterly racist and i will never support the bloke again if he has said that.

 

Dude, I said the video I saw was out of context.

I've seen another video (from that video) which is him putting a piece of paper away and saying "Those are the words from my friend who couldn't be here today", and then went into a sort of Q&A session saying he didn't have any words prepared.

Check your sauces, fool   

[chrisp65]

27 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

So what do we make of Anthony joshuas alleged  comments?

 

7 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Well if he said dont buy from whites and again i stress alledgly than that is utterly racist and i will never support the bloke again if he has said that.

 

So, did he say don’t buy from whites?

( I’ll confess I had to look up who he was, clearly boxing isn’t my thing)

 

[Rolta]

9 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

 

So, did he say don’t buy from whites?

( I’ll confess I had to look up who he was, clearly boxing isn’t my thing)

 

The whole thing is here. I'd say he's talking about racists, as in 'Don't use racists'/the establishment's shops and invest in your own'. I don't think it's very well written though: the use of 'their' isn't very well linked to its antecedent, and I'm not really sure what shops he's talking about. But he does many times before that talk up the idea of no-racism, so saying 'Don't shop in white shops' wouldn't fit. I think it could have been written better.

Edited June 8, 2020 by Rolta

[choffer]

37 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

So what do we make of Anthony joshuas alleged  comments?

Quote

"We need to speak out in peaceful demonstrations.We must not use the demonstration for selfish motives and turn it into rioting and looting. We need to be united in non-violent demonstrations, show them where it hurts. Abstain from spending your money in their shops and economies and invest in black owned businesses. And that's for all communities if you want to uplift yourself - invest in your own businesses". 

 

I don't see any of this as racist. Was there something else he said that has made you so cross?

 

(I know what Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon thinks about what Joshua said but I'd get banned for posting it here. It's kinda funny watching him calling out a heavyweight boxer. I say "kinda" funny because it's really not funny at all but I'd like to see him go toe-to-toe with Joshua.)

Edited June 8, 2020 by choffer

[coda]

7 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

 

( I’ll confess I had to look up who he was, clearly boxing isn’t my thing)

 

FFS this is worse than the Pet Sounds incident.

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 hour ago, Sam-AVFC said:

A hate crime has to target a victim, not a symbol. If a British person moved somewhere and woke up to a flag burning on their lawn that could be classified as a hate crime as there is a target.

I'm really not sure who the victim is when a flag gets burnt to protest. Particularly by someone who is a citizen of that country and I don't think their colour is really relevant.

I think the distinction in your example is that it's likely a Union Jack flag being burnt in Africa would be because of hatred linked to historic invasion and oppression. **** knows what point a British person burning a Nigerian flag would be trying to prove and I certainly don't think they would be pilloried (by most) if there was a legitimate reason e.g. I don't think a white person burning an Isis flag would get stick because there is something obviously evil they would be protesting against.

Fair enough. The guy still knew he would piss a hell of a lot people off when he decided to burn that flag. He’s an idiot in my opinion and is in no way helping the cause. 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Vive_La_Villa

[tonyh29]

2 minutes ago, choffer said:

 

I don't see any of this as racist. Was there something else he said that has made you so cross?

 

it was hardly "I have a dream"  ,  but seemed a fairly positive speech to me and nothing there to get worked up about  ...If  people are getting worked up by that particular comment , then I think those people need to step away from the keyboard and go have a cup of coffee or something

[chrisp65]

Pointless, I’ll only hurt my head on the brick wall.

Edited June 8, 2020 by chrisp65

[chrisp65]

7 minutes ago, coda said:

FFS this is worse than the Pet Sounds incident.

Genuine audible lol there.

Well played.

 

[PaulC]

I'm sorry but  Joshua and  others are hijacking the virus pandemic to promote Anti-Racism. its a separate thing and it winds up a lot of people. 

[blandy]

3 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

In a sort of reverse order, by ‘implicated’ in the slave trade, he actually became the highest ranking official in a company who’s very business was trading in slaves. If that’s implicated, I guess the guys on the factory floor physically making bombs are more to blame than the CEO of a bomb factory?

I can see how if he inherited a far away sugar plantation 250 years ago then there’s a grey area that can be debated over being implicated. But not when you’re running the slaver ships. That’s not implicated, that’s guilty.

Yes, the statue is there for his philanthropy to the people of Bristol, given from the money he made trading slaves. I guess Pablo Escobar dished out a fair bit of his drug money, perhaps his statue to could take a turn on the now empty plinth? Or maybe Jimmy Saville?

It’s not an easy point, and Tony is absolutely right, we run the strong risk of a cultural purge. But I think that having him down as a philanthropist that was implicated is about as soft a focus as you could put on it.

I bow to your superior knowledge - I knew nothing about him, to be honest, until yesterday. The thing I read said someone else was head of the company (King James? possibly from memory).

Whatever, like I said, tearing it down was right IMO.

[blandy]

3 hours ago, lapal_fan said:

was there a degree of "this is just how it is" at the time (From both sides)? 

Whether there was or not, if a slave was beaten, branded, abused etc. I'm pretty sure they would have been in torment, apart from all the rest of it - being torn from family, given terrible conditions to live and "work" in. Wrong in absolutely any age. Like you implied acceptance of "this is how it is" doesn't make it OK.

[chrisp65]

9 minutes ago, blandy said:

I bow to your superior knowledge - I knew nothing about him, to be honest, until yesterday. The thing I read said someone else was head of the company (King James? possibly from memory).

Whatever, like I said, tearing it down was right IMO.

Years of living right on the coast at the bottom of a big hill.

Pre digital we could only get reception from the Mendips aerial, so local news consisted mostly of missing dogs in Yeovil or hippies debating Colston.

People ‘over there’ have been debating it for years.

 

[lapal_fan]

3 minutes ago, blandy said:

Whether there was or not, if a slave was beaten, branded, abused etc. I'm pretty sure they would have been in torment, apart from all the rest of it - being torn from family, given terrible conditions to live and "work" in. Wrong in absolutely any age. Like you implied acceptance of "this is how it is" doesn't make it OK.

Well yea.. I mean.. it's obviously wrong innit. 

I was just pondering if it's something future generations get almost angrier about, even though they didn't live through it. 

Like in films where the oppressed always calmly say "don't worry, it's ok". 

It's odd now is the time to rip the place down.  It's not the first time things like George have happened, but it's certainly been a point where people have said "enough is enough".

The only issue we have now we have everyone's attention is "ok, now what do we do about it?". 

 

[snowychap]

2 hours ago, Sam-AVFC said:

**** knows what point a British person burning a Nigerian flag would be trying to prove

A long term grudge against Finidi George?

Edited June 8, 2020 by snowychap

[Keyblade]

3 hours ago, lapal_fan said:

Anything and everything pre-1950 which is grande in scale was built by methods which exploited someone (most likely). 

The UK was built on immoral actions from colonialisation.  Same with France, Spain, Russia, USA, China etc etc. 

One question I have (genuinely);

The slave trade as we know now is innately wrong.  It exploited people of colour/race - at the time though - did the people who were complicit in it (from both slave driver, to the slave) know it was wrong?  

That may sound like a stupid question, and it is in many ways (chain dumping in the sea for example is someone who knows what they were doing was wrong), but was there a degree of "this is just how it is" at the time (From both sides)? Like how we work 9-5 until we're 65-70 with 25 days a year to call our own? 

Obviously I'm not saying the conditions now are anything like the conditions slaves were put under, but I'm asking about the acceptance of "well, yea it's shit, but that's life?". 

 

I mean, I don't think they would have done it if they thought it was wrong per se (or to be more precise, against their personal morals), and that's what makes it egregious, the fact that they didn't. Abolitionist thought and movements were always present so there were certainly people who saw it for what it was; inhumane (as well as those who took notice of it). Those who took part in it did it because, well for one it was very profitable, but they also saw no moral objection to it as they felt that it was only right for them to subjugate what they saw as lesser beings. And that's a huge moral flaw on their part, and the prevalence of it during that time doesn't really change that imo.

To use your workers example, there have been calls to change our working condition since the 19th century at least. Millions of people know and have known that it's not right, but those in charge of the system do nothing to change it because similarly, it's very profitable to work people literally to their graves but they also have no moral objection to it beyond that. It honestly doesn't really matter if it's the status quo of this time, they're greedy, callous hoarders now and they will be 100 years from now too.

[Rolta]

33 minutes ago, PaulC said:

I'm sorry but  Joshua and  others are hijacking the virus pandemic to promote Anti-Racism. its a separate thing and it winds up a lot of people. 

Why do you think this? It doesn't seem to reflect what's going on at all. Everything began after a policeman murdered George Floyd and it was caught on video. Really it seems to be a protest in spite of the virus, and a protest to promote anti racism after a particularly shocking incident that can easily be read in a racist context...one incident of thousands. 

I wonder, honestly, do you think you'd probably have the same attitude to the overall message even if there was no pandemic? 

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Rolta

[Xela]

3 hours ago, WhatAboutTheFinish said:

So whilst we are all arguing about things that happened 100s of years ago. Have any of these protester put forward any concrete policy ideas that can be implemented in the here and now to improve lives? All I've heard is vague statements about 'justice' and 'ending racism'. If the best solutions on offer to these issues are mob rule and tearing down statues, stop the world... I wanna get off!

I think we've all agreed that we need to bulldoze the whole of Bristol into the harbour as it benefitted from slave trading money. 

This may not be the best solution for Bristollians but better to be safe than sorry.  

[Xela]

14 minutes ago, snowychap said:

A llong term grudge against Finidi George?

He was excellent!

More likely an Everton fan wondering why they spent so much on Daniel Amokachi! 

[Xela]

While we talk about slavery, worth mentioning that it still goes on in parts of the world and while people look forward to the World Cup in Qatar, lets remember those stadiums have been built on slave labour and people have died during the construction.