bickster Posted June 8, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 8, 2020 6 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: The vandalism of that statute was a disgrace It was making a point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 1 minute ago, bickster said: It was making a point Doesnt make it right. You basically disrespecting the man who saved this country. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 8, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 8, 2020 7 hours ago, Follyfoot said: Please do not tell me how I should think No one did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 8, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 8, 2020 Just now, Demitri_C said: Doesnt make it right. You basically disrespecting the man who saved this country. He'd have had my belly filled with lead or more importantly, my granfathers belly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Regardless of what you think of the man, it's an easy way to turn the public against the protests. Breaking lockdown, injuring dozens of police officers, killing a police horse, vandalising a Churchill statue and trying to set alight the Union flag on the cenotaph. Where's Johnson's water cannon when you need it? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted June 8, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) Is there actually any proof that he said that? I can find no actual proof 24 minutes ago, bickster said: He'd have had my belly filled with lead or more importantly, my granfathers belly Which is widely disputed not to have been said Edited June 8, 2020 by Follyfoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ml1dch Posted June 8, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 8, 2020 Just to check, if we're going with "Churchill beat the Nazis, that means he gets a bit of a pass on all that other bad stuff" we're applying the same standards to Stalin, right? 9 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 8, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 8, 2020 6 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: Which is widely disputed not to have been said Yes, you're right, it is widely disputed that he didn't say it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Breaking lockdown There is no lockdown. Edited June 8, 2020 by snowychap 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 33 minutes ago, snowychap said: There is no lockdown. Something we can agree on snowy! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 47 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Regardless of what you think of the man, it's an easy way to turn the public against the protests. Breaking lockdown, injuring dozens of police officers, killing a police horse, vandalising a Churchill statue and trying to set alight the Union flag on the cenotaph. Where's Johnson's water cannon when you need it? Yeah thats my problem with it All the valid points and good work and the original message are now going to be washed over with the story that they spray painted Churchill and war memorial statues and they were already swimming against the tide anyway Just don't do it, it side swipes the whole thing in to something different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 1 hour ago, bickster said: He'd have had my belly filled with lead or more importantly, my granfathers belly Your grandfather wouldnt even be here if the nazis won Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 8, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 8, 2020 1 hour ago, bickster said: He'd have had my belly filled with lead That’s a lot of lead! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisp65 Posted June 8, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 8, 2020 Being better than the nazis isn’t really where the bar should be set, is it? Imagine if Priti Patel could show half the anger at the Windrush scandal that she has to someone damaging a statue. Personally, I don’t like the statues, but I couldn’t be arsed to expend the energy to topple them. 3 years after Grenfell and they haven't decided on a definition for the word flammable or rehoused all the impacted families. Grenfell, Windrush, stuff like that, I’d quite like to see a bit more oomph from the government. Something on a par with a vandalised statue would be fine. So I’m done with wasting time on people’s warped sense of proportion where bronze is of more value than human life. Give your **** head a wobble if that’s you. 13 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ml1dch Posted June 8, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 8, 2020 7 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: So I’m done with wasting time on people’s warped sense of proportion where bronze is of more value than human life. Give your **** head a wobble if that’s you. #bronzelivesmatter 1 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rolta Posted June 8, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) 44 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Yeah thats my problem with it All the valid points and good work and the original message are now going to be washed over with the story that they spray painted Churchill and war memorial statues and they were already swimming against the tide anyway Just don't do it, it side swipes the whole thing in to something different Or it just gives a convenient excuse for people who don't really have that much sympathy anyway to work a little confirmation bias in their heads and get sanctimonious about it all. EDIT: The truth is probably a bit in the middle though. But Churchill was a racist, and it's good for people to know the wider span of British history—the whole history, the history beyond the 'We fought WW2 against the Nazis and won' story, which frequently comes across as if it's the only moment in history that has ever mattered. It's not. It's not by a long shot, and it's part of a really naive British myth. Personally, I wouldn't have sprayed it on his statue, but they're not wrong. A lot of people in the UK need to take a look in the mirror. The country's wealth is pretty much built upon the premise that black lives don't matter. Edited June 8, 2020 by Rolta 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 8, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 8, 2020 30 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Your grandfather wouldnt even be here if the nazis won He wouldn't have been there to dig coal and make munitions during the war if his belly was full of lead. His mate Jack Jones ( the EFC footballer) wouldn't have been able to join the International Brigade fighting Francos Fascists in Spain if his belly had been filled with lead either. What utter nonsense that post is 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 The protests in Gothenburg (2nd biggest city in Sweden) went exactly as expected. It started with some well meaning organizers who got permission for a protest, Sweden still has a 50 people max gatherings rule. Obviously right from the start there we're 1000's of people and not 50, and the organizers had no means of keeping control. They were still allowed to continue but then the people who were there to make trouble started to act out and attack the police. It was a couple 100-200 guys from the projects who care f all about anything regarding politics or justice. It's the guys who sell drugs outside the schools and rob teenagers of their clothes at knife point. These guys where only there to riot and steal stuff from the shops they hoped to loot. Nothing else. This time the police herded them off and contained them so there was limited destruction. Instead they went home and during the night we had loads of car fires all around the poorer suburbs in Gothenburg. This is the only outcome there was ever going to be in this particular city, other cities have different outcomes. Sadly these protest will mainly give the people who "only want to see the world burn" a carte blanche destroy things and attack people and the original message will become 2nd hand at best. Structural racism is absolutely a thing in Sweden, but that's not why these guys were there. And that's without even thinking about the virus. Again this is about 1 particular city in Sweden, results may vary, and I don't pretend to know anything about the inner goings in other countries. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted June 8, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, bickster said: He wouldn't have been there to dig coal and make munitions during the war if his belly was full of lead. His mate Jack Jones ( the EFC footballer) wouldn't have been able to join the International Brigade fighting Francos Fascists in Spain if his belly had been filled with lead either. What utter nonsense that post is Was never going to happen and most probably was never even said, Bringing the army in to the riots actually helped the situation not hinder Edited June 8, 2020 by Follyfoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted June 8, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted June 8, 2020 31 minutes ago, Rolta said: Or it just gives a convenient excuse for people who don't really have that much sympathy anyway to work a little confirmation bias in their heads and get sanctimonious about it all. EDIT: The truth is probably a bit in the middle though. Churchill was a racist, and it's good for people to know the wider span of British history—the whole history, the history beyond the 'We fought WW2 against the Nazis and won' story, which frequently comes across as if it's the only moment in history that has ever mattered. It's not. It's not by a long shot, and it's part of a really naive British myth. Personally, I wouldn't have sprayed it on his statue, but they're not wrong. A lot of people in the UK need to take a look in the mirror. I would say defeating the Nazis is probably the most important part of modern British and world history. Your comments show great Disrespect to those who laid down their lives so you could live in freedom. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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