chrisp65 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: so all the sky sports presenters who decided to stop wearing BLM badges are racist gammon retards ? No, no, no, you’ve missed the first side, the good guys. If they believe black lives matter, then they are the good guys. Distractions and tagging on ‘however...’ about knees or tee shirts or organisational accountability, and my personal favourite, why an underground communist organisation is saluting with a right fist raised not a left fist raised, discussing the minutiae of that, that edges people in to the second group. Getting people tripped up in debates about BLM badges or poppies or VE Day bunting is just a big old pile of poo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: No, no, no, you’ve missed the first side, the good guys. If they believe black lives matter, then they are the good guys. Distractions and tagging on ‘however...’ about knees or tee shirts or organisational accountability, and my personal favourite, why an underground communist organisation is saluting with a right fist raised not a left fist raised, discussing the minutiae of that, that edges people in to the second group. Getting people tripped up in debates about BLM badges or poppies or VE Day bunting is just a big old pile of poo. There seems to be 2 different conversations going on here , we've gone from me saying some people may object to stated goals of BLM (which may or may not be true ) but appear to be widely publicised to the point that some people would feel uncomfortable supporting them , see Sky sports presenters for example .. to good guys v retards, gammons and racists. that's a world away from Hijabs and Robinsons jam if i'm honest 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 15, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 15, 2020 The important thing here is the proper consideration of statues, and fleeting gestures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 15, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 15, 2020 13 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: remember the other week when in your eagerness to jump on one of my posts you didn't actually read it .... might be a good start point , just saying How very patronsing of you, Tone. I thought you were better than that. Don't flatter yourself. There is no eagerness. Your post said Quote I think it is a mistake to automatically adopted this default position that everyone objecting to the statue is a gammon or a racist Nobody has said this is the case. Your last line is Quote but in effect the conversation is already essentially fingers in the ear and la la la I can’t hear you ..quite sad really , I think its important discussions should be had . Which isn't true. What part of your post have I failed to read that would make any difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Arguing like a bunch of fat white middle aged mr rights. cringing here folks 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: There seems to be 2 different conversations going on here , we've gone from me saying some people may object to stated goals of BLM (which may or may not be true ) but appear to be widely publicised to the point that some people would feel uncomfortable supporting them , see Sky sports presenters for example .. to good guys v retards, gammons and racists. that's a world away from Hijabs and Robinsons jam if i'm honest There are two debates going on, yes. There’s whether or not we can use a point in time to push for equality. Yes or no. Then there are people that want to muddy the water by dissecting what they believe to be the political aims of a nebulous leaderless movement, without actually giving it any real research. People that think its clever to toss an anecdote about an incident in to a straight debate on whether black lives matter. Popping up with all manner of distractions that they somehow think might prove the concept of equality is a trick. We have literally discussed the golly and hijabs and uncle bens rice in this very thread. Distractions to undermine the basic, will you work for equality, yes or no. Personally, I fall in to thinking now is a good time to level the playing field. We should be equal. No more to add. We can calmly discuss as individuals and companies and countries etc how we do this as quickly as possible. We can choose to do that privately or publicly. So, self assessment, I’m going to label myself a good guy. Will I take the knee watching Barry’s Europa League Qualifier on youtube? I’ll be honest, its unlikely. Will I keep an eye on our player profiles and challenge if I think black players are strangely under represented? Damn right I will. Do black lives matter? The answer is yes. I’ve been quite surprised how many people can’t just say yes, but feel the need to try and be qualified. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 17 hours ago, chrisp65 said: There are two debates going on, yes. There’s whether or not we can use a point in time to push for equality. Yes or no. Then there are people that want to muddy the water by dissecting what they believe to be the political aims of a nebulous leaderless movement, without actually giving it any real research. People that think its clever to toss an anecdote about an incident in to a straight debate on whether black lives matter. Popping up with all manner of distractions that they somehow think might prove the concept of equality is a trick. We have literally discussed the golly and hijabs and uncle bens rice in this very thread. Distractions to undermine the basic, will you work for equality, yes or no. Personally, I fall in to thinking now is a good time to level the playing field. We should be equal. No more to add. We can calmly discuss as individuals and companies and countries etc how we do this as quickly as possible. We can choose to do that privately or publicly. So, self assessment, I’m going to label myself a good guy. Will I take the knee watching Barry’s Europa League Qualifier on youtube? I’ll be honest, its unlikely. Will I keep an eye on our player profiles and challenge if I think black players are strangely under represented? Damn right I will. Do black lives matter? The answer is yes. I’ve been quite surprised how many people can’t just say yes, but feel the need to try and be qualified. I don't disagree with what you are saying , but I've not started any of the aforementioned "distractions" , which is why I'm not sure how your posts kinda of quoted me and went off on a complete tangent .. Yes, I've joined a few of those conversations others have started and offered a view on some of it ... that's sort of the idea of a forum .... If my post about the temp statue is somehow being viewed as deflection and black lives don't matter and muddying waters , frankly that's a strange conclusion to come to ... There are some questionable posts in this thread , none of them are from me .. I have called out those questionable posts , there isn't any defence of the indefensible from me . Our views here aren't overly different .... I think where I've disagreed with some , is over "civil disobedience" and knocking down statues , but I've been consistent with that view as long as I've been on this forum ., when it was rabid left wing students instead of BLM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 13 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: I don't disagree with what you are saying , but I've not started any of the aforementioned "distractions" , which is why I'm not sure how your posts kinda of quoted me and went off on a complete tangent .. Yes, I've joined a few of those conversations others have started and offered a view on some of it ... that's sort of the idea of a forum .... If my post about the temp statue is somehow being viewed as deflection and black lives don't matter and muddying waters , frankly that's a strange conclusion to come to ... There are some questionable posts in this thread , none of them are from me .. I have called out those questionable posts , there isn't any defence of the indefensible from me . Our views here aren't overly different .... I think where I've disagreed with some , is over "civil disobedience" and knocking down statues , but I've been consistent with that view as long as I've been on this forum ., when it was rabid left wing students instead of BLM. Tony, apologies if you thought it was a rant at you! I know you weren’t overly upset about Uncle Ben. I think we both know what our views are. It was a far more general rant. Well, it wasn’t, it was specific to two or three posters, but they weren’t you. You were a convenient jumping in point because you had the line about a BLM ‘debate’. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted July 15, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 15, 2020 2 hours ago, chrisp65 said: No, no, no, you’ve missed the first side, the good guys. If they believe black lives matter, then they are the good guys. Distractions and tagging on ‘however...’ about knees or tee shirts or organisational accountability, and my personal favourite, why an underground communist organisation is saluting with a right fist raised not a left fist raised, discussing the minutiae of that, that edges people in to the second group. Getting people tripped up in debates about BLM badges or poppies or VE Day bunting is just a big old pile of poo. 90% of that is correct, the only part that I think is wrong is Organisational accountability. Get that right and everything is galvanised and the good guys win a lot quicker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 14 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: 90% of that is correct, the only part that I think is wrong is Organisational accountability. Get that right and everything is galvanised and the good guys win a lot quicker It’s a deliberately disorganised organisation, having learned lessons from the way government agents infiltrated the upper tiers of the Black Panther movement, instigated violence and then clamped down on the violence, basically by killing many of the leaders. The originators have said they have no more control over it than anyone else and chapters or satellites or franchises only have to sign up to the belief that black lives matter. The rest is add ons you can take or leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted July 15, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: It’s a deliberately disorganised organisation, having learned lessons from the way government agents infiltrated the upper tiers of the Black Panther movement, instigated violence and then clamped down on the violence, basically by killing many of the leaders. The originators have said they have no more control over it than anyone else and chapters or satellites or franchises only have to sign up to the belief that black lives matter. The rest is add ons you can take or leave. You’re talking about a movement that disbanded in 1982. Nobody in this day and age is going to assassinate the leaders of a movement with the sentiment of BLM. Show visible leadership, lose the smash the system message whether it is misinterpreted or not then people do not have to worry about the add-ons and the aims are achieved. Take the bullet out of the gun of the opposition before they can fire it and the war is won Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 15, 2020 Moderator Share Posted July 15, 2020 Just now, Follyfoot said: Nobody in this day and age is going to assassinate the leaders of a movement with the sentiment of BLM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted July 15, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 15, 2020 15 minutes ago, bickster said: If you’re going to quote, quote the context of which it was meant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 4 hours ago, tonyh29 said: I'm assuming the people who spent hours analysing the planning permission on Dominic Cummings parents house are probably having wet dreams about investigating every planning application law this statue has broken Lol. Give someone any address and they can find out whether or not it has planning in under 10 minutes. I'll save you the time on the statue. It doesn't have planning permission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Follyfoot said: If you’re going to quote, quote the context of which it was meant Why? Taking the moral highground and cheap shots at others as some sort of PC epeen point scoring is the point this thread is for by all accounts. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 22 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said: Lol. Give someone any address and they can find out whether or not it has planning in under 10 minutes. I'll save you the time on the statue. It doesn't have planning permission. not reading posts must be catching you're not saving me any time as I'm not looking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham t Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 9 hours ago, Seat68 said: Be interesting to see how long it lasts before the various lunatic white lives matter people mobilise and get to Bristol. Yes an interesting point of view. Whist it is okay to break the law and vandalise a statue to bring 'attention' to racism it is wrong for someone whose beliefs you disagree with to do the same? I personally think that it is okay to persuade councils to remove inappropriate statues but not to simply tear them down ( I am expecting the usual 'Gammon ' rant). We have laws for a reason .It is to prevent anarchy. Whats next, public stoning for anyone who disagrees with you opinion....... Regards, VLD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 25 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: not reading posts must be catching you're not saving me any time as I'm not looking I read everything you posted in the last few pages. Interested to see what I've misunderstood that makes what I said wrong? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 18 minutes ago, Graham t said: Yes an interesting point of view. Whist it is okay to break the law and vandalise a statue to bring 'attention' to racism it is wrong for someone whose beliefs you disagree with to do the same? I personally think that it is okay to persuade councils to remove inappropriate statues but not to simply tear them down ( I am expecting the usual 'Gammon ' rant). We have laws for a reason .It is to prevent anarchy. Whats next, public stoning for anyone who disagrees with you opinion....... Regards, VLD. As you quoted me and used the word you. Pop up the top and pop Statue and me as the author. I was against the statues coming down when BLM protestors were bringing them down. I think the replacement is a fairly good thing to do. BLM removed or wanted the removal of statues because of links to slavery. If Jen Reid’s statue is removed, its because of racism and not that due process was followed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 15, 2020 Moderator Share Posted July 15, 2020 2 hours ago, Follyfoot said: If you’re going to quote, quote the context of which it was meant There was nothing else in your post that added further context. That isn't how forums work. I always quote the relevant point, which I did. That sentence is complete and utter bollocks 57 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said: Why? Taking the moral highground and cheap shots at others as some sort of PC epeen point scoring is the point this thread is for by all accounts. No moral highground was taken. I chose to point out someone was talking crap. No cheap shots at "others" were made, apart from by you in this very quoted post. Nothing in my post relates to polictical correctness either If people actually think that political assasinations just do not happen in this day and age, then that is simply wrong. I'd also wager they were far more likely to happen to people of colour, campaigning for people of colour not to be discriminated against Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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