Tyrone Mings

[Peter Griffin]

1 minute ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

Yep, for me Konsa and Martinez are the top dogs in our defence. Every other player can be improved upon, including Mings.

 

As I said, Konsa not being picked for England is silly. if I were him I'd declare for Portugal, they'd actually pick him to start too. 

 

We have depth in midfield and up front, I'm not sure why we can't have the same in defence.

 

It's almost like Smith doesn't want to tread on any of his current first choice defenders' toes. As you say, we haven't really invested anything in this area apart from bringing in Cash last summer when we just scraped survival.

I would say there is a bit of not making too many changes at one go and also keeping within FFP / P&S. I would hope to see some improved quality brought into the back next summer.

And yes, Konsa should declare for Portugal, I really don't rate GS as a manager.

[VillaFaninLondon]

5 minutes ago, Woody1000 said:

@Peter Griffin Konsa is a cracking defender no doubt, but what we don’t know yet is whether he can lead our defence. That is not a knock on Ezri, he has not had the opportunity to prove this as he has not had a prolonged spell in defence without Tyrone bar the odd game. Tyrone is the leader of our defence, mistakes and all, and he’s a bloody good one.
 

To answer your questions, a club like Villa is a mid table club which in fairness we only barely have the rights to call ourselves even that, as we have finished mid table in the PL once in the last 10 years. I said a version of Mings that doesn’t make mistakes, for me of Mings didn’t make the occasional errors that he does for us, then he plays for a top 6 club simple as that.

I think everyone knows we are a midtable team. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be actively looking to improve on that. 

 

Leicester were a midtable side when they bought Pereira, Everton were a midtable side when they bought Digne. Two quality defenders and could easily have gone to EL or CL team.

 

We have an advantage playing in the PL, the best league in the world. We also have the advantage of having owners that have genuine aspirations of playing European football season in season out and have the financial capacity to achieve it. 

[Peter Griffin]

18 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

for me of Mings didn’t make the occasional errors that he does for us, then he plays for a top 6 club simple as that.

I agree but the problem is he does make mistakes. Villa wants to be competing with the top 6 clubs. If Mings isn't good enough for top 6 then how can we not want to upgrade him

[PaulC]

I have a lot more trust in Konsa than Mings. 

[lexicon]

We had one of the best defensive records in the league last year tbf. Things that shouldn't need to be mentioned again, but here we are having a stupid discussion about Mings again:

Konsa also makes mistakes.

Mings and Konsa are a partnership who generally work very well together.

Mings does way more good than bad but some people don't seem to recognise all the times he prevents goals.

 

[Davkaus]

I seem to recall Konsa falling to bits when Mings was out last season.

He makes fewer unforced errors and he's a bloody good defender, but he benefits enormously from having the leadership and organisation of Mings next to him, which is one of the biggest strengths of Mings' game.

[Zatman]

30 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I agree but the problem is he does make mistakes. Villa wants to be competing with the top 6 clubs. If Mings isn't good enough for top 6 then how can we not want to upgrade him

so does Konsa, Watkins, McGinn, Douglas Luiz even Grealish made mistakes. Everybody makes mistakes, even top 6 players like Maguire, Lloris, Saul made mistakes yesterday. if anything Watkins not scoring yesterday is as just as big of a mistake as Mings

You keep saying upgrade him but still offer no left footed alternative with leadership skills like Mings has

[VillaFaninLondon]

16 minutes ago, lexicon said:

We had one of the best defensive records in the league last year tbf. Things that shouldn't need to be mentioned again, but here we are having a stupid discussion about Mings again:

Konsa also makes mistakes.

Mings and Konsa are a partnership who generally work very well together.

Mings does way more good than bad but some people don't seem to recognise all the times he prevents goals.

 

But we're not talking about last season. This season we have conceded 7 goals in 4 games and only played one strong team. We couldn't keep a clean sheet against 2 newly promoted teams and shipped 3 against one of them. 

 

Even last season, Emi had to make a lot of very good saves and more than he should have to. 

 

I personally think our defence is around midtable standard with the exception of Konsa and Emi. That's fine for where we are now, but not if we want to get better. 

[Zatman]

2 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

But we're not talking about last season. This season we have conceded 7 goals in 4 games and only played one strong team. We couldn't keep a clean sheet against 2 newly promoted teams and shipped 3 against one of them. 

 

Even last season, Emi had to make a lot of very good saves and more than he should have to. 

 

I personally think our defence is around midtable standard with the exception of Konsa and Emi. That's fine for where we are now, but not if we want to get better. 

MIngs didnt play vs Brentford though when we conceded a shit goal. I didnt see the Watford game but Konsa struggled badly against Wilson vs Newcastle

[Woody1000]

12 minutes ago, Zatman said:

so does Konsa, Watkins, McGinn, Douglas Luiz even Grealish made mistakes. Everybody makes mistakes, even top 6 players like Maguire, Lloris, Saul made mistakes yesterday. if anything Watkins not scoring yesterday is as just as big of a mistake as Mings

You keep saying upgrade him but still offer no left footed alternative with leadership skills like Mings has

He’ll just say that it’s Lange’s job.

[VillaFaninLondon]

28 minutes ago, Zatman said:

MIngs didnt play vs Brentford though when we conceded a shit goal. I didnt see the Watford game but Konsa struggled badly against Wilson vs Newcastle

Targett was the weak link against Watford but apparently wasn't fully fit. Targett is another one I think we can upgrade though he had a career best season last year.

 

I just think the defence has the least competition in it. We have international players and top quality young players in midfield and attack but the only competition our defence has is a 36 yo Ashley Young and Tuanzebe who was 5th choice at MU and started a grand total of 4 league games last season. 

 

The defence was clearly greater than the sum of its parts last season and did well, but I'm sceptical it will be as good this season and it will be an area we need to look to improve going forward. 

[Peter Griffin]

1 hour ago, lexicon said:

Things that shouldn't need to be mentioned again, but here we are having a stupid discussion about Mings again:

If DS and Lange can't look at our squad critically then we will go backwards. We need to be constantly looking to improve every aspect of our play and that includes every player. It is this approach that makes winners. Sitting back and thinking we don't need to improve is not an attribute associated with winners

[Peter Griffin]

59 minutes ago, Woody1000 said:

He’ll just say that it’s Lange’s job.

And what is wrong with that? Do you honesty believe we couldn't find a player that we could afford, would come to Villa and would be better than Mings? That attitude would get us nowhere

[Peter Griffin]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

You keep saying upgrade him but still offer no left footed alternative with leadership skills like Mings has

If recruiting players was as easy as going to a fans forum and checking out which player a club should buy then clubs wouldn't employ scouts nor recruitment specialists to find players. Do I take it that if we could improve Mings you agree we should and the reason we shouldn't sell him is because we cannot find better? 

[Woody1000]

5 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

And what is wrong with that? Do you honesty believe we couldn't find a player that we could afford, would come to Villa and would be better than Mings? That attitude would get us nowhere

Let’s leave it here Peter, you’re offering no alternative suggestion, and you just put words in people’s mouth to carry on your boring narrative that you have all week in the January transfer thread. No one has said any of those things.

[HalfTimePost]

2 hours ago, Peter Griffin said:

What are u asking? What is a club like Villa? What is a player like Mings that make fewer mistakes? Konsa is a player that plays for Villa, is better than Mings and makes fewer mistakes

Perhaps. But two Konsa's wouldn't be as good a pairing as Mings and Konsa imo. Mings is more likely to make a mistake but is also more likely to make a last ditch block (not that Konsa doesn't) and lead the defense and team. An upgrade on Mings with his good attributes is a very expensive player to play alongside Ezri.

£40-50m+

£65m+ if they're English.

Edited September 12, 2021 by HalfTimePost

[Peter Griffin]

Just now, Woody1000 said:

Let’s leave it here Peter, you’re offering no alternative suggestion, and you just put words in people’s mouth to carry on your boring narrative that you have all week in the January transfer thread. No one has said any of those things.

I am not putting words in people's mouth, if you you don't like what I am saying then you can ignore me. But if you engage I am perfectly entitled to debate. This is an Aston Villa forum, all I am doing it debating things about Aston Villa. I am saying we should upgrade Mings and the point you are putting across is that we wouldn't''t be able to get better. I disagree with this.

[Tomaszk]

11 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

If recruiting players was as easy as going to a fans forum and checking out which player a club should buy then clubs wouldn't employ scouts nor recruitment specialists to find players. Do I take it that if we could improve Mings you agree we should and the reason we shouldn't sell him is because we cannot find better? 

You're living in a fantasy world.

Why just Mings?

Let's sell everyone and replace them with better, cheaper players and win the the league.

It's Lange's job to find those players.

[Peter Griffin]

3 minutes ago, HalfTimePost said:

Perhaps. But two Konsa's wouldn't be as good a pairing as Mings and Konsa imo. Mings is more likely to make a mistake but is also more likely to make a last ditch block (not that Konsa doesn't) and lead the defense and team. An upgrade on Mings with his good attributes is a very expensive player to play alongside Ezri.

£40-50m+

£65m+ if they're English.

I agree with that. And that is exactly why I think we should sell him next summer. We should hopefully be able to make a healthy accounting profit on Mings next summer, crica 20m/25m. Add the extra to that and we could have the CB pairing to take us to top 4/6. Mings is not the player to take us to that level.

[Peter Griffin]

1 minute ago, Tomaszk said:

You're living in a fantasy world.

Why just Mings?

Let's sell everyone and replace them with better, cheaper players and win the the league.

It's Lange's job to find those players.

What is the fantasy about what I am saying? Improve players? Lange is responsible? And yes ALL players should be under constant review for improving and selling on. The reason to sell Mings next summer is that due to his age and time with the club we would make a significant accounting profit on him. If we keep him his value will just go down. Then in a few years time we will be needing to buy a new CB for 50m/60m instead of adding 30m to what we could sell Mings for. This allows us to continue to invest more in other aspects of the team during that window.