Tyrone Mings

[Keyblade]

1 minute ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

That's a matter of opinion but you could argue a few - Soyuncu, Evans at Leicester, Ogbonna and Zouma at West Ham, Anderson at Palace, Dunk at Brighton is very highly rated.

 

I like Ty but his errors really do undo a lot of his good work. You'd think he'd be able to cut them out at 28 years old but he's still doing it. Fair play to him for coming out and apologising though.

 

It wasn't just Ty's fault yesterday anyhow, Tuanzebe was pretty poor, as was Targett as he allowed Azpilicueta to get forward for the third. I think there are a couple of positions in the defence we should be looking to improve personally. 

I can't think of a single CB outside the top 6 I'd have over Mings, including Konsa and Leicester's CB's. He might make more individual howlers than some defenders, but he does almost everything else to a higher standard, and has intangible leadership qualities that I wouldn't trade either.

Zouma for example might make less "mistakes" on paper, but he has very poor positioning and when he isn't playing for a team has 60%+ possession (his spells at Stoke and Everton), he gets exposed quite quickly. Anderson also doesn't have a patch on Mings. 

[Peter Griffin]

8 minutes ago, Phil Silvers said:

I'm hoping big MIngsy does a Targett for the rest of the season, gets in the prem team of the season and then sits on the bench behind stones and slabhead at the WC and Arsenal offer us 80m for him 

Unfortunately I expect Edu and Arteta will be in different jobs then. But if they are still at Arsenal then happy days. I think Vieira is doing his CV a lot of good. If he continues getting Palace to play as they are then I can see him going to Arsenal. His work in the transfer window is looking really good and that is something that is looking like dog shyte at Arsenal. 75m/80m on White and Ramsey 

[Phil Silvers]

Just watching rerun  of yesterday's game and that 2nd goal really was the perfect storm for Chelsea, Axel pass+Ty pass+ static Steer and on top of all that Kovacic already at to be motion at that speed, not only that, he's an average finisher and he took it like prime Ronaldo.

 

[Peter Griffin]

10 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Yes he makes the odd error but this guy earns us a dozen points a season overall we’ve improved massively since he’s come here.

We haveWithout question, Mings is better than what we had at CB but there are other influencing factors as to why we may be improving. One of those factors is that we have spent about 350m on players since he has come here too.

[Fairy In Boots]

Just now, Peter Griffin said:

We haveWithout question, Mings is better than what we had at CB but there are other influencing factors as to why we may be improving. One of those factors is that we have spent about 350m on players since he has come here too.

We had spent millions under Xia before him, Mings proved himself on loan. You watch us through lockdown and you could hear him constantly organising in everyone’s ear cajoling, demanding etc. He’s a leader he makes mistakes but he keeps on going, I think he’s a really good player for us, not just in his on the ball ability but that character off the ball. 

[AVTuco]

2 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

 

No need for this at all Tyrone. Our Captain.

[Peter Griffin]

13 minutes ago, GingerCollins29 said:

Oh, the knives are being sharpened...

 

No knives being sharpened 

[Keyblade]

I think his first touch is very underrated. There have been so many instances where balls have been fizzed into the box and he just kills it dead on reaction (another example of his excellent first touch is the chance that fell to him in the box in the first half). This leads to him passing it out and it quickly turns attack into defence. A lot of other defenders wouldn't even attempt to control the ball and just boot it up the pitch. He's very integral to the way we play, and I think the coaching staff accept that he'll have a brain fart every now and then. If you watch him for England you'll notice he's much less adventurous and kind of plays like how Konsa plays for us. We'd be missing out on so much if we asked him to play in his shell like that.

[Peter Griffin]

4 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

We had spent millions under Xia before him, Mings proved himself on loan. You watch us through lockdown and you could hear him constantly organising in everyone’s ear cajoling, demanding etc. He’s a leader he makes mistakes but he keeps on going, I think he’s a really good player for us, not just in his on the ball ability but that character off the ball. 

I am not sure the relevance of spending millions under Xia. We bought crap players and had a crap manager. The 350m spent under DS has improved our team and is the biggest contributor to our midtable PL position last season. And yes Mings proved himself on loan, he was brilliant for us but that was in the Championship. He has been a really good addition to our team in helping us stay in the PL. But we are a team trying to get into a European position in the league. We won't get there with an error prone CB no matter how good a leader he is. The PL is a very difficult league and mistakes are punished and more so with defenders and GK than the rest of the team. Yes we need a leader and yes we need someone to organise our defence but imo this person cannot be error prone if we want to move to European qualification.

[Keyblade]

1 minute ago, Peter Griffin said:

I am not sure the relevance of spending millions under Xia. We bought crap players and had a crap manager. The 350m spent under DS has improved our team and is the biggest contributor to our midtable PL position last season. And yes Mings proved himself on loan, he was brilliant for us but that was in the Championship. He has been a really good addition to our team in helping us stay in the PL. But we are a team trying to get into a European position in the league. We won't get there with an error prone CB no matter how good a leader he is. The PL is a very difficult league and mistakes are punished and more so with defenders and GK than the rest of the team. Yes we need a leader and yes we need someone to organise our defence but imo this person cannot be error prone if we want to move to European qualification.

Why can't he be error-prone (which is a relative term I'm assuming, because it's not like he makes an error every game)? Maguire and Stones (incidentally the 2 players ahead of him for England) play for the top 2 teams in the country and are also relatively error prone, and it doesn't seem to affect their team's ability to qualify for Europe.

[villalad21]

1 hour ago, Big Salad said:

Some of the vitriol directed at Tyrone after that blunder yesterday was absolutely ridiculous. Does he make mistakes? Sure. All defenders do. Their's not a top cb in all of world football who doesn't.

He more than makes up for it with all the other things he does well. Dean made him the captain for a reason, he has faith in him, and we should continue to have the same faith in him as fans.

Some more than others. 

[VillaFaninLondon]

19 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

I can't think of a single CB outside the top 6 I'd have over Mings, including Konsa and Leicester's CB's. He might make more individual howlers than some defenders, but he does almost everything else to a higher standard, and has intangible leadership qualities that I wouldn't trade either.

Zouma for example might make less "mistakes" on paper, but he has very poor positioning and when he isn't playing for a team has 60%+ possession (his spells at Stoke and Everton), he gets exposed quite quickly. Anderson also doesn't have a patch on Mings. 

Football is a game of opinions. I'm sure if you asked Leicester fans or West Ham fans who they'd rather have they'd say their own players too.

 

As it happens there are other areas of the first 11 I'd look to upgrade before Mings. I wish he didn't make the errors he does but I recognise the qualities he gives us too.

 

He could do with more competition though I think. Hause isn't really ever going to challenge for a place in the side. 

[Peter Griffin]

1 minute ago, Keyblade said:

Why can't he be error-prone

Because errors from a CB cost us points and stop us progressing to be a Euro qualification team

3 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Maguire and Stones (incidentally the 2 players ahead of him for England) play for the top 2 teams in the country and are also relatively error prone, and it doesn't seem to affect their team's ability to qualify for Europe

Maguire and Stones make fewer errors and certainly fewer costly errors. With Stones, when he starting making errors he was dropped and out of the City 1st XI. He looked done and dusted and City and then came back into the team last season and he was excellent for them and that is why he got back into the England setup. Also, we (like most teams outside the top 4/6) have more need for our defenders to be less error prone as we don not have the quality players in the rest of the team as they do. Our errors will cost us more than their errors. Look at Chelsea and Liverpool, you don't see too many errors at the back from them.

[Rightdm00]

28 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

I can't think of a single CB outside the top 6 I'd have over Mings, including Konsa and Leicester's CB's. He might make more individual howlers than some defenders, but he does almost everything else to a higher standard, and has intangible leadership qualities that I wouldn't trade either.

Zouma for example might make less "mistakes" on paper, but he has very poor positioning and when he isn't playing for a team has 60%+ possession (his spells at Stoke and Everton), he gets exposed quite quickly. Anderson also doesn't have a patch on Mings. 

This is where I am at. Mistakes or not. I can't think of a defender who I'm replacing him with outside the Top 6. 

Please don't name a defender from an anti footballing outfit like Burnley. They dont even try to play football. Easy to defend when all you have to do is get rid for 90 minutes. 

[Keyblade]

2 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

Because errors from a CB cost us points and stop us progressing to be a Euro qualification team

Maguire and Stones make fewer errors and certainly fewer costly errors. With Stones, when he starting making errors he was dropped and out of the City 1st XI. He looked done and dusted and City and then came back into the team last season and he was excellent for them and that is why he got back into the England setup. Also, we (like most teams outside the top 4/6) have more need for our defenders to be less error prone as we don not have the quality players in the rest of the team as they do. Our errors will cost us more than their errors. Look at Chelsea and Liverpool, you don't see too many errors at the back from them.

It's probably because they don't have to defend as much? We're under the cosh a lot more than those teams. If VVD joined Villa he'd likely make more mistakes than at Liverpool (and he did at Southampton as a direct example). I think this is being overblown tbh.

[Peter Griffin]

1 minute ago, Rightdm00 said:

I can't think of a single CB outside the top 6 I'd have over Mings, including Konsa and Leicester's CB's

Other than the fact that he broke his leg and ankle and damaged his ligaments I would take Fofana over Mings everyday of the the week. I would happily swap Mings for Fofana and give them about 50m. A player like him in our defence would push us to European qualification

[Peter Griffin]

1 minute ago, Keyblade said:

It's probably because they don't have to defend as much? We're under the cosh a lot more than those teams.

Yep we are under the cosh more, hence we need defenders that are able to concentrate for the full 90 mins and not make silly mistakes

2 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

If VVD joined Villa he'd likely make more mistakes than at Liverpool (and he did at Southampton as a direct example). I think this is being overblown tbh.

If we had VVD instead of Mings we would without question finish on more points at the end of the season. 

[Zatman]

11 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

Because errors from a CB cost us points and stop us progressing to be a Euro qualification team

Maguire and Stones make fewer errors and certainly fewer costly errors. With Stones, when he starting making errors he was dropped and out of the City 1st XI. He looked done and dusted and City and then came back into the team last season and he was excellent for them and that is why he got back into the England setup. Also, we (like most teams outside the top 4/6) have more need for our defenders to be less error prone as we don not have the quality players in the rest of the team as they do. Our errors will cost us more than their errors. Look at Chelsea and Liverpool, you don't see too many errors at the back from them.

Stones hasnt played all season because he isnt trusted. Ruben Dias held his hand last season

as for Maguire he was 35 yards out of position for Newcastles goal yesterday, I also dont remember Mings wrestling his own player at a set piece when conceding

[Peter Griffin]

2 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Stones hasnt played all season because he isnt trusted

The logic being that because he makes errors he gets dropped and isn't trusted to play? 

[Tomaszk]

13 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

Other than the fact that he broke his leg and ankle and damaged his ligaments I would take Fofana over Mings everyday of the the week. I would happily swap Mings for Fofana and give them about 50m. A player like him in our defence would push us to European qualification

Why don't Leicester sell Fofana for £75m and just replace him with a better player?

That's their director of football's job.