TRO Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 15 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said: So when we play city in a couple of weeks and Sterling dives to get a pen in the first 10 minutes is anyone going to boo him every time he touches the ball for the rest of the match.. I don't think I understand your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) They mentioned it in the commentary early on last night that every time sterling got the ball he was getting noticable boos, some of it was booing, some of it, especially a bit later on was monkey chants but the commentary team & media/fans/people on twitter were specifically saying early doors it was blatant racism simply by booing him. There was no mention of any of the racist stuff, Just simply that it was disgusting in this day and age that people were booing Stering. i know it's not the same but there isn't a great deal of difference soundwise between boo & ooo and when the tv cameras are pointing at lots of people mouthing the same expressions it could be taken either way really. Some of this came up a little with the Chelsea fans last year, nobody will ever know if that guy said black or manc but a decision was made by the media & social media instantly and photos of his house were in the papers the next day and they guy is a right wing brexit supporting racist regardless of what he actually said. Would you want to take a chance booing a black player at the moment? what about a manager? people were hurling all sorts including vegetables at Bruce, What if the West Brom fans had done that to Darren Moore, no racist language, Just a torrent of constant abuse and the occasional item from a greengrocers. Is it because he was shit or black? how does anyone tell, What's to stop someone encountering that scenario for the first time assuming they just hate the black guy? There is a very thin/flimsy line there at the moment, Liverpool fans used to boo sterling and give him dogs abuse all through the game, is that now racist, can it be perceived as racist? What about when Delph visits VP and is constantly booed? What happens if Gaeten Bong hacks down/Injures Grealish early in the game on Saturday ? would you risk losing your job/ being banned from VP/ Jail? by shouting dirty B***ard at him? Edited October 15, 2019 by LakotaDakota 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Political correctness gone mad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 11 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said: They mentioned it in the commentary early on last night that every time sterling got the ball he was getting noticable boos, some of it was booing, some of it, especially a bit later on was monkey chants but the commentary team & media/fans/people on twitter were specifically saying early doors it was blatant racism simply by booing him. There was no mention of any of the racist stuff, Just simply that it was disgusting in this day and age that people were booing Stering. i know it's not the same but there isn't a great deal of difference soundwise between boo & ooo and when the tv cameras are pointing at lots of people mouthing the same expressions it could be taken either way really. Some of this came up a little with the Chelsea fans last year, nobody will ever know if that guy said black or manc but a decision was made by the media & social media instantly and photos of his house were in the papers the next day and they guy is a right wing brexit supporting racist regardless of what he actually said. Would you want to take a chance booing a black player at the moment? what about a manager? people were hurling all sorts including vegetables at Bruce, What if the West Brom fans had done that to Darren Moore, no racist language, Just a torrent of constant abuse and the occasional item from a greengrocers. Is it because he was shit or black? how does anyone tell, What's to stop someone encountering that scenario for the first time assuming they just hate the black guy? There is a very thin/flimsy line there at the moment, Liverpool fans used to boo sterling and give him dogs abuse all through the game, is that now racist, can it be perceived as racist? What about when Delph visits VP and is constantly booed? Do Bulgarians have a particularly good reason to single out Sterling and Mings for abuse, that isn't about the colour of their skin? If Albion fans shouted at Darren Moore for losing football matches, that would be fair enough. If they shouted at him for being black, then it wouldn't. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sam-AVFC Posted October 15, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 15, 2019 What annoyed me the most about last night was the assumption people were doing nazi salutes. How do we know they weren't bird watchers or plane spotters? We can't just jump to conclusions and assume these people are racist - the Nazi salute is very similar to pointing and only the individuals involved know for sure the intent. If an English fan pointed at a plane would we call them racist? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 22 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said: They mentioned it in the commentary early on last night that every time sterling got the ball he was getting noticable boos, some of it was booing, some of it, especially a bit later on was monkey chants but the commentary team & people on twitter were specifically saying early doors it was blatant racism simply by booing him. i know it's not the same but there isn't a great deal of difference soundwise between boo & ooo and when the tv cameras are pointing at lots of people mouthing the same expressions it could be taken either way really. Some of this came up a little with the Chelsea fans last year, nobody will ever know if that guy said black or manc but a decision was made by the media & social media instantly and photos of his house were in the papers the next day and they guy is a right wing brexit supporting racist regardless of what he actually said. Would you want to take a chance booing a black player at the moment? what about a manager? people were hurling all sorts including vegetables at Bruce, What if the West Brom fans had done that to Darren Moore, no racist language, Just a torrent of constant abuse and the occasional item from a greengrocers. There is a very thin/flimsy line there at the moment, Liverpool fans used to boo sterling and give him dogs abuse all through the game, is that now racist, can it be perceived as racist? What about when Delph visits VP and is constantly booed? I think its quite distinguishable personally.....If someone is intent on racial abuse they usually make their comments known in no uncertain terms as did the thugs in Bulgaria. I don't think the comments about his Right wing Brexit tendencies is a helpful reference....I just see a racist as a racist and his political persuasion could be from any background? or where he shops? We need to be focused on eradicating this disease.....not watering it down with ifs , buts & maybe's. I just don't boo players full stop....So i guess i have nothing to fear. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 30 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said: They mentioned it in the commentary early on last night that every time sterling got the ball he was getting noticable boos, some of it was booing, some of it, especially a bit later on was monkey chants but the commentary team & media/fans/people on twitter were specifically saying early doors it was blatant racism simply by booing him. There was no mention of any of the racist stuff, Just simply that it was disgusting in this day and age that people were booing Stering. i know it's not the same but there isn't a great deal of difference soundwise between boo & ooo and when the tv cameras are pointing at lots of people mouthing the same expressions it could be taken either way really. Some of this came up a little with the Chelsea fans last year, nobody will ever know if that guy said black or manc but a decision was made by the media & social media instantly and photos of his house were in the papers the next day and they guy is a right wing brexit supporting racist regardless of what he actually said. Would you want to take a chance booing a black player at the moment? what about a manager? people were hurling all sorts including vegetables at Bruce, What if the West Brom fans had done that to Darren Moore, no racist language, Just a torrent of constant abuse and the occasional item from a greengrocers. Is it because he was shit or black? how does anyone tell, What's to stop someone encountering that scenario for the first time assuming they just hate the black guy? There is a very thin/flimsy line there at the moment, Liverpool fans used to boo sterling and give him dogs abuse all through the game, is that now racist, can it be perceived as racist? What about when Delph visits VP and is constantly booed? What happens if Gaeten Bong hacks down/Injures Grealish early in the game on Saturday ? would you risk losing your job/ being banned from VP/ Jail? by shouting dirty B***ard at him? Honestly not even sure what point you're trying to make here. You've played devil's advocate so well I can't tell which side of the argument you're doing it for. It's usually fairly easy to tell when someone is being singled out due to their race. Sterling dives for a penalty and gets booed thereafter (and wasn't being booed before that), it's pretty obvious why. Similarly if Darren Moore was being booed after a poor run of games. You could play devli's advocate the opposite way and say why even boo at all? Did we throw a cabbage at Steve Bruce because he was shit, or because he was white? Tyrone Mings was making his first ever international appearance. There's no other explanation why Bulgarian fans would be making monkey chants at him (which were very audible even on TV). Huge difference between a drawn out booooooo and the "ooh ooh ooh"'s that we were hearing as well. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 Just bizarre people trying to defend the Bulgarians. For me defending them makss you just as guilty 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, Zatman said: Just bizarre people trying to defend the Bulgarians. For me defending them makss you just as guilty Wouldn't be suprised if most of the people defending them are the type to kick up a stink about the 'ethnic cleansing of anglo-saxons' and racism towards white people being the most perceivable race issue in this day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 51 minutes ago, TRO said: I think the "No Respect" shirt, shows there is still some way to go, to eradicate this disease. I think the no respect shirt was part of the scariest thing about last night It wasn't a case of them seeing sterling dive, or a carry over of Liverpool fans booing him or anything like that, you see gangs of ultras in the stadium, dressed like that in a manner that covers their identity, with shirts like thay, giving the salutes etc walking out when they got told off, this wasn't reactionary or emotionally charged, it wasn't a small pocket of them that started it and the rest got swept up in it in the moment it was pre planned and organised It was talked about before, it was in a stadium that had sanctions on it, they knew it would happen and couldn't stop it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 1 hour ago, LakotaDakota said: So when we play city in a couple of weeks and Sterling dives to get a pen in the first 10 minutes is anyone going to boo him every time he touches the ball for the rest of the match.. This is where people need to be adult enough to understand the difference. Booing someone, irrespective of the colour of their skin because they cheated to con the referee is 100% different to setting out to boo them solely because they're black, or brown or whatever. We can still pass judgement on people's character because they dictate that, passing judgement on the colour of their skin is wholly wrong and something they do not dictate. It's okay standing up to stuff that needs to be stood up to but not going so far that we all walk around on eggshells afraid to speak to anyone in case it offends them in some way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisVillan Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 **** hell. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talldarkandransome Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Booing isn't racist, monkey chanting is. What I heard last night was mostly monkey chanting, it was clear and audible. The cameras even showed a group of them doing it. Whistling during national anthems is disrespectful but shouldn't be punished in my view. England have been charged with this and not having enough stewards. It's almost as if UEFA are trying to even it out. I didn't see any security escorting these guy's out last night, they just seemed to walk out in their own. I also didn't see that many Bulgarian stewards 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talldarkandransome Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 3 hours ago, TRO said: Hopefully, they will just stop it. They need an education as to what Banter is......and that song isn't. I'm not convinced they even know what they are saying, so yes, education might actually work in this case. It's just not nice to hear it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 27 minutes ago, Talldarkandransome said: Booing isn't racist, it is if you’re booing them because they’re a certain race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 3 hours ago, Zatman said: Just bizarre people trying to defend the Bulgarians. For me defending them makss you just as guilty I don't think that is accurate.......The whole of Bulgaria was not making those chants, make your point more accurately. There is good and bad in every nation. The Bulgarian premier has already made his comments on the head of their FA and he has subsequently resigned.......let them deal with their affairs and join reasonable people. We need to help them catch up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 Just now, TRO said: I don't think that is accurate.......The whole of Bulgaria was not making those chants, make your point more accurately. There is good and bad in every nation. The Bulgarian premier has already made his comments on the head of their FA and he has subsequently resigned.......let them deal with their affairs and join reasonable people. We need to help them catch up. nothing to do with Bulgarians, its people in general defending them saying was just booing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 3 hours ago, villa4europe said: I think the no respect shirt was part of the scariest thing about last night It wasn't a case of them seeing sterling dive, or a carry over of Liverpool fans booing him or anything like that, you see gangs of ultras in the stadium, dressed like that in a manner that covers their identity, with shirts like thay, giving the salutes etc walking out when they got told off, this wasn't reactionary or emotionally charged, it wasn't a small pocket of them that started it and the rest got swept up in it in the moment it was pre planned and organised It was talked about before, it was in a stadium that had sanctions on it, they knew it would happen and couldn't stop it Couldn't stop it might be the operative words. They have to stop it.......and they need the time and wherewithal to do it. Inthe mean time UEFA needs to tell them until they can be assured they have cured this evil......they can't participate in civilised football competitions. Its an internal problem for Bulgaria to deal with and not for the rest of Europe to be subjected to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Zatman said: nothing to do with Bulgarians, its people in general defending them saying was just booing There is no defending that, its just a ridiculous response From them. Edited October 15, 2019 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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