Keyblade Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 I don't know exactly what's said or the extent of his conduct, but if it were just that line quoted above...a week off for sensitivity training would make more sense. Considering that he's banned for 8 months, I'm inclined to think there's a lot more going on than just that throwaway line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted September 19, 2019 Author Share Posted September 19, 2019 I find it hard for Beardsley to abuse anybody. Did he not remember tge dogs abuse he got for his handsome features Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Keyblade said: I don't know exactly what's said or the extent of his conduct, but if it were just that line quoted above...a week off for sensitivity training would make more sense. Considering that he's banned for 8 months, I'm inclined to think there's a lot more going on than just that throwaway line. He has to do one to one training too 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted September 19, 2019 Author Share Posted September 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Keyblade said: I don't know exactly what's said or the extent of his conduct, but if it were just that line quoted above...a week off for sensitivity training would make more sense. Considering that he's banned for 8 months, I'm inclined to think there's a lot more going on than just that throwaway line. He has previous, he was suspended previously years back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talldarkandransome Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 Tricky subject this one, either Beardsley is guilty or he isn't. I don't buy the 'education is needed' response, you are either racist or you aren't. A child may have 'I didn't know' to fall back on but this shouldn't be used for adults. You are not born racist, you either learn it from your parents or you learn it from your peers. If Beardsley has been found guilty of racist comments then an 8 month ban isn't sending the right message. You may as well say drink driving is ok cos you didn't know alcohol affects your ability to drive. Kick it Out calling for punishment and education is an insult to who they are supposed to represent. Punishment is what is required and an 8 month ban is not a punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 7 hours ago, Talldarkandransome said: an 8 month ban is not a punishment. Isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talldarkandransome Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 13 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Isn't it? Not if they are trying to eradicate the problem. I accept it's a punishment but not a suitable one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, Talldarkandransome said: Not if they are trying to eradicate the problem. I accept it's a punishment but not a suitable one Fair enough. Can I ask, not looking for an argument, what you think would have been a more suitable punishment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mottaloo Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 7 hours ago, Talldarkandransome said: Tricky subject this one, either Beardsley is guilty or he isn't. I don't buy the 'education is needed' response, you are either racist or you aren't. A child may have 'I didn't know' to fall back on but this shouldn't be used for adults. You are not born racist, you either learn it from your parents or you learn it from your peers. If Beardsley has been found guilty of racist comments then an 8 month ban isn't sending the right message. You may as well say drink driving is ok cos you didn't know alcohol affects your ability to drive. Kick it Out calling for punishment and education is an insult to who they are supposed to represent. Punishment is what is required and an 8 month ban is not a punishment. I think this is true and part of me thinks that the one to one awareness training course won't change someone of his age, but will at best try to humiliate or shame him for being "educated" about racism. I could be wrong and Beardsley might get the message but it feels more like a case of him sitting on a public naughty step for a short while with even the folk running the course knowing it's too late for him to change. Like i said, i could be wrong about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talldarkandransome Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 4 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: Fair enough. Can I ask, not looking for an argument, what you think would have been a more suitable punishment? No worries, I'm no expert but possibly something along the lines of what has happened with fans. Life bans or multi season bans. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talldarkandransome Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 4 hours ago, mottaloo said: I think this is true and part of me thinks that the one to one awareness training course won't change someone of his age, but will at best try to humiliate or shame him for being "educated" about racism. I could be wrong and Beardsley might get the message but it feels more like a case of him sitting on a public naughty step for a short while with even the folk running the course knowing it's too late for him to change. Like i said, i could be wrong about him. I don't have a particular issue with educating offenders, but unless you live on Mars there is no reason not to already know that using the word monkey to a black person isn't suitable. I was born in the 70's when certain prime time TV programmes used to get away with murder so I've been exposed to many inappropriate sayings when I was young. I didn't think they were suitable then and that hasn't changed now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 8 months out of work for an insensitive comment is more than enough for punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 11 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: 8 months out of work for an insensitive comment is more than enough for punishment. But it wasn't an insensitive comment, was it? In most qualified roles, I imagine you'd be struck off for being racist. Could be wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 On 30/08/2019 at 16:20, kurtsimonw said: I would say a good 90% of racist comments aren't from racist people. Just a heat of the moment kind of thing, that's probably not truly in their character. If there was potential punishment, I think they would be able to refrain from posting that nonsense. Then you'd have a number of racist trolls who can't be bothered going through the hassle, or don't have the know how, to set up accounts in a different country. So it would work IMO. On 05/09/2019 at 10:34, kurtsimonw said: So do you believe any time anyone is referred to by their ethnicity or sex, the person saying that is a sexist or a racist? You may believe it to be "absurd", but I genuinely think they aren't necessarily. This week someone has labelled someone a "mad twitter woman". In your view it's absurd not to label this poster a sexist, yes? Bit of a shift here from "racist comments aren't from racist people" to "any time anyone is referred to by their ethnicity". As I said earlier, you don't use racial slurs if you aren't, to whatever degree, racist. It just doesn't happen. The same is true of sexism - you wouldn't berate someone based on their gender unless you have, to whatever degree, some sexist beliefs. It isn't hard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 14 minutes ago, bobzy said: But it wasn't an insensitive comment, was it? In most qualified roles, I imagine you'd be struck off for being racist. Could be wrong though. The concept of being 'struck off' doesn't really exist in most 'qualified roles', he's not a doctor, he doesn't work in finance and has been involved in corruption or insider trading. The FA may have the right to give him a lifetime ban but clearly saw 8 months as sufficient, I don't really disagree with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 31 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: 8 months out of work for an insensitive comment is more than enough for punishment. I agree which is why I think it's deeper than that. Probably a culmination of incidents. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: The concept of being 'struck off' doesn't really exist in most 'qualified roles', he's not a doctor, he doesn't work in finance and has been involved in corruption or insider trading. The FA may have the right to give him a lifetime ban but clearly saw 8 months as sufficient, I don't really disagree with them. You're right - he's not a doctor or in finance, he's a football coach. It would be perfectly reasonable for him to have his coaching licence(s) revoked for being racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 Banning people for a racist comment or even a collection of them isn't necessarily going to solve the issue. It's unlikely to correct the underlying sentiment and it will reinforce the 'PC gone mad' victim-hood that an increasing amount of people hold on to. Some people are old school and very ignorant and think this sort of 'banter' is acceptable. Many of these individuals are racists out of sheer ignorance. I think there's definitely a role for 'awareness training' to address this coupled with an appropriate suspension from the sport. Racism is ideological, a set of very bad ideas which can be conditioned out of people if they're shown the right way of thinking about race. Thus the appropriate way to deal with it in this sport is suspension + training, which appears to be what has been sanctioned. It's certainly not the case for everyone that 'once a racist always a racist', simply not true. Obviously if he does this again having undergone a suspension and training then a more robust punishment such as a lifetime ban would be the right punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Dr_Pangloss said: Banning people for a racist comment or even a collection of them isn't necessarily going to solve the issue. It's unlikely to correct the underlying sentiment and it will reinforce the 'PC gone mad' victim-hood that an increasing amount of people hold on to. Some people are old school and very ignorant and think this sort of 'banter' is acceptable. Many of these individuals are racists out of sheer ignorance. I think there's definitely a role for 'awareness training' to address this coupled with an appropriate suspension from the sport. Racism is ideological, a set of very bad ideas which can be conditioned out of people if they're shown the right way of thinking about race. Thus the appropriate way to deal with it in this sport is suspension + training, which appears to be what has been sanctioned. It's certainly not the case for everyone that 'once a racist always a racist', simply not true. Obviously if he does this again having undergone a suspension and training then a more robust punishment such as a lifetime ban would be the right punishment. Racism is ignorance. Very few people are of the malicious neo-Nazi type, but even so ignorance is not an excuse and ultimately does most of the legwork for the aforementioned malicious types anyway. If the footballing authorities are serious about "kicking it out", then I'd imagine they should probably apply the same heavy hand they rightly do to racist fans, across the board. From what I understand, Beardsley has previous in this area so I'd imagine if he rocks up with another incident after this training and 8 month suspension, that should be curtains for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 9 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Racism is ignorance. Very few people are of the malicious neo-Nazi type, but even so ignorance is not an excuse and ultimately does most of the legwork for the aforementioned malicious types anyway. If the footballing authorities are serious about "kicking it out", then I'd imagine they should probably apply the same heavy hand they rightly do to racist fans, across the board. From what I understand, Beardsley has previous in this area so I'd imagine if he rocks up with another incident after this training and 8 month suspension, that should be curtains for him. No where am I saying it's an excuse, merely that because it is ignorance it can, for some, be corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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