Dean Smith

[cheltenham_villa]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

Desperation.....to match the desperation on the pitch.

plus he knows how to get a team to defend, probably that's the reason.

At the expense of entertainment though. Let's pay our money to just stay up then, why would you expect to enjoy it. That sounds like great fun.

[VillaFaninLondon]

10 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I disagree with you and that's fine, but the bit in bold is absolute bollocks and something you just dragged out of your arse  

What I meant by that comment is Smith has only ever managed in one country and never in the top division. He was never going to be able to attract players who were proven quality. But on reflection, that is fairly common for newly promoted teams, with the exception of Wolves and Nuno. The problem was in our situation we had to build a new squad and giving an unproven manager that much money to spend is potentially a recipe for disaster which it is looking like being. 

 

I also felt we could have signed 6-7 players of better quality than 13 players like we did. We would have had a smaller squad but the players we could call on would at least be more likely to play at this level. 

 

So many ifs and buts, I'm tired of it now. So many false dawns at this club over the years and I can't even be arsed to get angry any more.

[villalad21]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

Desperation.....to match the desperation on the pitch.

Desperate times require desperate measures.

[markavfc40]

Having always expected us to be in a relegation fight this season and to dip in and out of the bottom 3 throughout the season the fact we now find ourselves in it hasn't come as a surprise. The challenge and the bottom line was always whether come 5pm on May 17th we could find ourselves above 3 other sides.

Despite expecting us to struggle this season though that doesn't make yesterdays result and performance any less concerning. There have been deficiencies in the way we play all season, not unexpected given how many players we are trying to integrate, but I have felt that despite those deficiencies we had enough still to beat sides on a similar level to us. After yesterday you'd have to question that.

Smith needs to have a plan B when play A is not working and it is now clearly not working. We are so predictable to play against. 4/3/3 with our fullbacks either pushing too far up the pitch or getting sucked inside and leaving acres of space out wide for the opposition to exploit. We also struggle to defend corners/set pieces. I'd like to see us go 5-3-2 with 3 centre backs, 2 wing backs, 3 central midfielders and depending on opposition either Grealish as the head of those 3 midfielders or Grealish part of a front 2 given a free role just behind a striker.

I get the impression Smith won't change formation though. That he is 100% convinced that by persevering with the way he wants to play that eventually it will come good. I'd imagine he believes that having had to bring in so many players that trying to integrate them all at the same time as switching from one formation to another would make things worse not better. I'd like to think though that he can see that things can't get much worse and that he has to now change the way we play.

I think one thing we all do need remember is that if we are to win the fight to stay up we have a part to play. There was booing at the game yesterday and whilst I get the frustration booing players who are clearly struggling isn't going to help and will just make things worse. We are now on a 4 game losing run, players are obviously going to be lacking confidence and if we get on their backs some of them will hide. We have to get 100% behind them as if Villa Park becomes toxic then we have no chance of staying up this season and are done for. 

It is remarkable that we are even playing in the Premier League this season and whilst the manager is fair game for some criticism I suggest we all think back to just a few months ago when us playing championship football this season looked certain. Dean Smith was a huge reason for that not being the case. I am confident just like last season he can turn things around and get us moving in the right direction but just like the players he'll also need our backing in being able to do that.

[sne]

Just for reference, Allardyce doesn't really have stellar results and would in no way ensure us staying up. His 1 game for England hides a rather poor points return average.

He would also bring his revolting personality.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/sam-allardyce/profil/trainer/445

Club		Appointed	In charge until	Position	Matches	PPM
	Everton	17/18 (Nov 30, 2017)	17/18 (May 16, 2018)	Manager	26	1,42
	Crystal Palace	16/17 (Dec 23, 2016)	16/17 (May 23, 2017)	Manager	23	1,26
	England	16/17 (Jul 22, 2016)	16/17 (Sep 27, 2016)	Manager	1	3,00
	Sunderland	15/16 (Oct 9, 2015)	16/17 (Jul 21, 2016)	Manager	31	1,16
	West Ham	10/11 (Jun 1, 2011)	14/15 (Jun 30, 2015)	Manager	181	1,39
	Blackburn	08/09 (Dec 17, 2008)	10/11 (Dec 13, 2010)	Manager	90	1,36
	Newcastle	06/07 (May 15, 2007)	07/08 (Jan 9, 2008)	Manager	24	1,25
	Bolton	99/00 (Oct 19, 1999)	06/07 (Apr 30, 2007)	Manager	267	1,40

[mikeyp102]

55 minutes ago, Eastie said:

For me Sean Dyche would be a very good option and I think he would be tempted 

Whilst I agree Dyche is a good manager, you have to remember that Burnley in their first year back up under Dyche were relegated. They stuck by him, he got them promoted again and then thrived in the prem. 

I could see Smith being exactly the same 

[TRO]

8 hours ago, Londonastonvilla said:

Nothing surprises me on Villatalk.

We are playing badly with little confidence and losing games.Sack all the players except Grealish and a few others,sack the manager and the board ...that’s a good idea.

Do we stand by people that have brought us success in the past?No let’s see who doing well in the premier league at the moment...Steve Bruce is doing well with a similar team to us let’s get  him....No no he’s terrible because that’s what a lot of fans said on here last year.

Look at Burnley I hate the football they play but Dyce is good premier league manager.Burnley were relegated 4 years ago but the club stuck by him.It wouldn’t happen at Villa because some fans would insist there is somebody better ...like Remi Garde

Somebody suggested on here we should drop Mings because he is prone to errors...be careful what you wish for...

This is the time to be a true Villa fan ,when things are going badly to stick with the team and the manager.The easy option is let’s get rid of that player,that manager,etc the difficult bit is not overreacting when things get difficult.

Let’s look at Bournemouth they are on a terrible run Let’s sack Eddie Howe and all their players.

People talk about Smith having no plan b ,does pep have a plan b?

 

I think the the chances are, you would have hated the football of the Ron Sunders era......did you watch the European cup final?    we were outplayed for periods of the game, but we stood resolute, something we can only dream of now..

Look, our undoing is thinking we can stand off and play champagne football, without earning the right to.....this is the trade off.......That attractive football you crave turns in to ugly football, like yesterday.

and i can tell you now.....Villa Talk is being kind, to some of the stuff, I have read elsewhere.

Edited December 22, 2019 by TRO

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, sne said:

Just for reference, Allardyce doesn't really have stellar results and would in no way ensure us staying up. His 1 game for England hides a rather poor points return average.

He would also bring his revolting personality.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/sam-allardyce/profil/trainer/445

Club		Appointed	In charge until	Position	Matches	PPM
	Everton	17/18 (Nov 30, 2017)	17/18 (May 16, 2018)	Manager	26	1,42
	Crystal Palace	16/17 (Dec 23, 2016)	16/17 (May 23, 2017)	Manager	23	1,26
	England	16/17 (Jul 22, 2016)	16/17 (Sep 27, 2016)	Manager	1	3,00
	Sunderland	15/16 (Oct 9, 2015)	16/17 (Jul 21, 2016)	Manager	31	1,16
	West Ham	10/11 (Jun 1, 2011)	14/15 (Jun 30, 2015)	Manager	181	1,39
	Blackburn	08/09 (Dec 17, 2008)	10/11 (Dec 13, 2010)	Manager	90	1,36
	Newcastle	06/07 (May 15, 2007)	07/08 (Jan 9, 2008)	Manager	24	1,25
	Bolton	99/00 (Oct 19, 1999)	06/07 (Apr 30, 2007)	Manager	267	1,40

There's no chance of that, he has retired.....just a bit of banter.

Dean needs to sort this crap out.

[TRO]

19 minutes ago, cheltenham_villa said:

At the expense of entertainment though. Let's pay our money to just stay up then, why would you expect to enjoy it. That sounds like great fun.

I cannot believe you have written that.

Are you telling me you are incapable of appreciating a good performance, where defensive capability has had to be relied upon, because we are playing a better team...are you not able to identify a good defender, or appreciate the art.

Are you telling me that you expect to go out every week to see champagne football played to satisfy your lust for such.....you are living in cuckoo land.....these teams make it their soul mission to disrupt that spectacle and stop you playing. We in contrast have to have the personnel to counter that and we bloody well haven't.....because we have bought players to satisfy the idealists like you.

Football first and foremost is a battle... its a competitive contact sport where you fight to get the upper hand, when that bit has been accomplished you apply the fancy bits that make us ALL happy and win games.

I think you, and perhaps Dean Smith has missed that crucial bit of WINNING THE RIGHT TO PLAY.

Edited December 22, 2019 by TRO

[sne]

Bit of a myth that we are playing, or even trying to play "entertaining" football.

We are 18th in passes made and in touches of the ball in the PL. 

[Dr_Pangloss]

3 minutes ago, sne said:

Bit of a myth that we are playing, or even trying to play "entertaining" football.

We are 18th in passes made and in touches of the ball in the PL. 

The football is garbage, all this from a coach who was known for a high press, high intensity, pass and move style. He hasn't even tried to bring that here.

[mikeyp102]

Just now, Dr_Pangloss said:

The football is garbage, all this from a coach who was known for a high press, high intensity, pass and move style. He hasn't even tried to bring that here.

Of course he’s tried to bring it here. He didn’t just walk in from day one and decide “Na I’m going to completely change my whole ethos”. It’s just harder to create from scratch in the prem 

[TRO]

22 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

Having always expected us to be in a relegation fight this season and to dip in and out of the bottom 3 throughout the season the fact we now find ourselves in it hasn't come as a surprise. The challenge and the bottom line was always whether come 5pm on May 17th we could find ourselves above 3 other sides.

Despite expecting us to struggle this season though that doesn't make yesterdays result and performance any less concerning. There have been deficiencies in the way we play all season, not unexpected given how many players we are trying to integrate, but I have felt that despite those deficiencies we had enough still to beat sides on a similar level to us. After yesterday you'd have to question that.

Smith needs to have a plan B when play A is not working and it is now clearly not working. We are so predictable to play against. 4/3/3 with our fullbacks either pushing too far up the pitch or getting sucked inside and leaving acres of space out wide for the opposition to exploit. We also struggle to defend corners/set pieces. I'd like to see us go 5-3-2 with 3 centre backs, 2 wing backs, 3 central midfielders and depending on opposition either Grealish as the head of those 3 midfielders or Grealish part of a front 2 given a free role just behind a striker.

I get the impression Smith won't change formation though. That he is 100% convinced that by persevering with the way he wants to play that eventually it will come good. I'd imagine he believes that having had to bring in so many players that trying to integrate them all at the same time as switching from one formation to another would make things worse not better. I'd like to think though that he can see that things can't get much worse and that he has to now change the way we play.

I think one thing we all do need remember is that if we are to win the fight to stay up we have a part to play. There was booing at the game yesterday and whilst I get the frustration booing players who are clearly struggling isn't going to help and will just make things worse. We are now on a 4 game losing run, players are obviously going to be lacking confidence and if we get on their backs some of them will hide. We have to get 100% behind them as if Villa Park becomes toxic then we have no chance of staying up this season and are done for. 

It is remarkable that we are even playing in the Premier League this season and whilst the manager is fair game for some criticism I suggest we all think back to just a few months ago when us playing championship football this season looked certain. Dean Smith was a huge reason for that not being the case. I am confident just like last season he can turn things around and get us moving in the right direction but just like the players he'll also need our backing in being able to do that.

as always Mark a good post.

But I too would like to take you back to 2 recent games....Man Utd away and Liverpool at Home......where we applied ourselves commendably.

My point is, it is doable to expect a reasonable performance......That game yesterday was appalling there was so many poor things going on, positional sense was bankrupt at times, we went down to a low level yesterday, where I have seen similar issues in our play all season, unchecked.

I think your suggestion of 5-3-2 is a good one......and Booing is a No,No for me......but judging on Dean Smiths comments afterwards, maybe they needed to let him know.

I have a fear he is Theresa May mk 2.......just see's it his way.

We do have to remember was wasn't the most  physically adapted side in The Championship, so that is clearly not going to change, so we must be  ready to accept that is not going to change with Dean......However, we must find a way of not being closed down and our play so stifled with such naivety and ease.

We have shown that when teams let us play we can play......We have also shown that when teams don't let us play, we can't.......This theory by some that with the easy teams, we will get points has proven to be a myth.

 

[Dr_Pangloss]

1 minute ago, mikeyp102 said:

Of course he’s tried to bring it here. He didn’t just walk in from day one and decide “Na I’m going to completely change my whole ethos”. It’s just harder to create from scratch in the prem 

There's absolutely no evidence he has since there's no games where we've deployed that approach, regardless of level.

The football hasn't always been shit but we've never deployed a consistent high press, hunt in packs, pass in triangles style, not once under Smith and anyone who says we have is lying.

[Brumstopdogs]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

as always Mark a good post.

But I too would like to take you back to 2 recent games....Man Utd away and Liverpool at Home......where we applied ourselves commendably.

My point is, it is doable to expect a reasonable performance......That game yesterday was appalling there was so many poor things going on, positional sense was bankrupt at times, we went down to a low level yesterday, where I have seen similar issues in our play all season, unchecked.

I think your suggestion of 5-3-2 is a good one......and Booing is a No,No for me......but judging on Dean Smiths comments afterwards, maybe they needed to let him know.

I have a fear he is Theresa May mk 2.......just see's it his way.

We do have to remember was wasn't the most  physically adapted side in The Championship, so that is clearly not going to change, so we must be  ready to accept that is not going to change with Dean......However, we must find a way of not being closed down and our play so stifled with such naivety and ease.

We have shown that when teams let us play we can play......We have also shown that when teams don't let us play, we can't.......This theory by some that with the easy teams, we will get points has proven to be a myth.

 

[Brumstopdogs]

Dean Smith has so many issues to solve as so many parts of the team are not functioning correctly and efficiently.

With McGinn out it will be interesting to see what his plan is to counter his absence. We were poor at pressing teams with McGinn in the team but I would assume we'd be even worse at that without him (although McGinn's form has been bad).

We also have to start stretching teams more and therefore Kodjia has to play.

 

[briny_ear]

1 hour ago, cheltenham_villa said:

At the expense of entertainment though. Let's pay our money to just stay up then, why would you expect to enjoy it. That sounds like great fun.

Sorry, but if you think yesterday’s performance was ”entertaining”, I suspect you are in a small minority. There is nothing entertaining about seeing your team taken to pieces by relegation-level opponents.

We need to address the basics of defence, closing teams down and controlling matches (particularly at VP) before we can even begin to dream of playing ”entertaining” football at PL level.

The challenge for Smith (and ultimately the board) is whether he is a manager capable of  achieving this. Yesterday wasn’t a good indicator. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

Now seeing people on facebook claiming he is now "throwing players under the bus', literally because he explained what happened for the goals.

These are the same people who would say he is deluded if he said the players were excellent.

In his defence, I have seen him do nothing but defend the players even when they have deserved a blasting.

It is now turning into the oh so familiar Aston Villa managerial witch hunt.

Along with them claiming that there are rumours "the players wanted to change tactics against Leicester and he refused".

Fair play, but would the change in tactics have allowed them to be able to pass to a teammate, not give the opposition the ball at will and remember how to defend?

I have my own criticisms of him but the hyperbole via some of our fans is baffling.

At least now my timeline on FB is less "Wesley is a donkey" and now more of a balance of "Wesley is a donkey and Dean Smith is clueless, Everton got Ancelloti so we need to get Pochettino".

 

Edited December 22, 2019 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[SuffolkVillan]

1 hour ago, markavfc40 said:

Having always expected us to be in a relegation fight this season and to dip in and out of the bottom 3 throughout the season the fact we now find ourselves in it hasn't come as a surprise. The challenge and the bottom line was always whether come 5pm on May 17th we could find ourselves above 3 other sides.

Despite expecting us to struggle this season though that doesn't make yesterdays result and performance any less concerning. There have been deficiencies in the way we play all season, not unexpected given how many players we are trying to integrate, but I have felt that despite those deficiencies we had enough still to beat sides on a similar level to us. After yesterday you'd have to question that.

Smith needs to have a plan B when play A is not working and it is now clearly not working. We are so predictable to play against. 4/3/3 with our fullbacks either pushing too far up the pitch or getting sucked inside and leaving acres of space out wide for the opposition to exploit. We also struggle to defend corners/set pieces. I'd like to see us go 5-3-2 with 3 centre backs, 2 wing backs, 3 central midfielders and depending on opposition either Grealish as the head of those 3 midfielders or Grealish part of a front 2 given a free role just behind a striker.

I get the impression Smith won't change formation though. That he is 100% convinced that by persevering with the way he wants to play that eventually it will come good. I'd imagine he believes that having had to bring in so many players that trying to integrate them all at the same time as switching from one formation to another would make things worse not better. I'd like to think though that he can see that things can't get much worse and that he has to now change the way we play.

I think one thing we all do need remember is that if we are to win the fight to stay up we have a part to play. There was booing at the game yesterday and whilst I get the frustration booing players who are clearly struggling isn't going to help and will just make things worse. We are now on a 4 game losing run, players are obviously going to be lacking confidence and if we get on their backs some of them will hide. We have to get 100% behind them as if Villa Park becomes toxic then we have no chance of staying up this season and are done for. 

It is remarkable that we are even playing in the Premier League this season and whilst the manager is fair game for some criticism I suggest we all think back to just a few months ago when us playing championship football this season looked certain. Dean Smith was a huge reason for that not being the case. I am confident just like last season he can turn things around and get us moving in the right direction but just like the players he'll also need our backing in being able to do that.

very good post. I also think 5-3-2 would help in that we should be a little stronger in defence, not so reliant on Nakamba etc trotting back after the opposition midfield have surged through our midfield and most relevant of all our wingers are useless.

[vreitti]

I can see what Smith is trying to implement here, the way he wants to play football, and I applaud his approach, even though I feel it's the wrong one, considering the players at his disposal. Still it would be ludicrous to sack Smith now. He needs more time, and the january window.