Dean Smith

[markavfc40]

2 hours ago, Shropshire Lad said:

It’s close, but I don’t it’s the worst it’s been. I can think of a couple of times which were as bad as this, arguably more so (definitely in one of the examples).

However if it carries on for the rest of the season, a couple more wins at most say, I do wonder what the club will do.

As others have said, I’m sort of looking at the rest of the season with a mindset of “Ok Dean, show us why you’re the man to take charge next season.” It hasn’t got to be regular 3-0 wins against promotion hopefuls, but something to suggest he has a plan moving forward.

I think the issue could be if this form continued and performances remained as poor as they have been then come the end of the season what do those in charge base their decisions on keeping Smith in charge on. They could have 5 months of poor form and poor performances then would his record at Brentford and Walsall be enough for them to over look those 5 months and trust he could turn things around. I think it would take a leap of faith from them.

For what it is worth I think if what we have seen the last 2 months or so continued for the remainder of the season he would be out. I'd imagine at that point he could well have been scarred as we saw a taste of the atmosphere getting toxic last Friday and if this run continues that will only get worse. Whilst the finger hasn't been pointed at Smith he would clearly have to take some responsibility if this run went on.

I still can't get my head around how we have dropped off so much. We play WBA on Saturday and the last time we played them at the beginning of December we were on a really good run and playing some lovely stuff. At that stage Smith was all about what we could do, playing front foot attacking football stating that other teams should worry about us. Last night he stated we couldn't open up against Brentford and the game went as expected. Now Brentford are a half decent side but they sat 18th going into the game yet the manager felt we couldn't open up against them and was clearly worried about what they could do. What happened to teams having to worry about us and that all out front foot football? 

It is all a little worrying and I don't think we can just write this next three months off and think he'll still survive until next season.

Edited February 14, 2019 by markavfc40

[Pimlico_Villa]

1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

You gotta ask questions about what the heck is going on at the training ground.

We're getting worse every single week and yet we still stick with the exact same formation and system.

Really can’t deduce what we do on the training ground. It can’t be fitness, tactics, shape or attacking. Must solely consist of Hourihane standing there waiving his arms about as people run past him. 

[Pimlico_Villa]

8 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I think the issue could be if this form continued and performances remained as poor as they have been then come the end of the season what do those in charge base their decisions on keeping Smith in charge on. They could have 5 months of poor form and poor performances then would his record at Brentford and Walsall be enough for them to over look those 5 months and trust he could turn things around. I think it would take a leap of faith from them.

For what it is worth I think if what we have seen the last 2 months or so continued for the remainder of the season he would be out. I'd imagine at that point he could well have been scarred as we saw a taste of the atmosphere getting toxic last Friday and if this run continues that will only get worse. Whilst the finger hasn't been pointed at Smith he would clearly have to take some responsibility if this run went on.

.

... And if this season carries on its current trajectory, what type of proposition will we be to players we want to sign? Not a partocuLlry compelling one, as we are a mid to bottom tier championship club. Smith as a Manager is not yet capable of attracting high calibre, promotion potential players. 

We’d be forced to compensate with higher wages, and we’ve all seen where that leads. 

[Keyblade]

3 hours ago, LakotaDakota said:

The problem is that all of those players combined are good enough to finish somewhere around 8th. That may be fine if you are Brentford and you may make a bit of money along the way and get a good cup run here & there but you are not getting near the premier league.

You missed the part where he said sign 10m players instead of 2.5m players. This isn't Brentford. We brought in Dean Smith to hopefully replicate what he did at Brentford with a similar set-up but on a bigger scale.

[villabromsgrove]

22 minutes ago, screwdriver said:

yeah like when you call Steve Bruce Potatoe head sang songs about darren bent and his daughter and Tim Sherwood the cockney "chancer"

but I forgot Dean smith is a villa fan so he's beyond reproach

Smith is not above reproach. He's trusted in the old heads to get the job done, and persisted with "experience" when it's become obvious that these guys can no longer do the job he requires.

He doesn't have many options due to injuries and inexperience, but I think he needs to impose himself on our play more than he's currently doing.

As for the other three "insults" that you mention, you might well have traded those insults and sung those songs but I certainly haven't sung along with you.

I've said that I believed Bruce to be a tactical dinosaur, but I also added to those posts that I thought Bruce was a good bloke doing his best even though in my opinion he was outdated. There is a difference between genuine opinion and personal abuse, but when your usual style is to post for effect I guess abuse has more shock value.

[Mark Albrighton]

16 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

It is all a little worrying and I don't think we can just write this next three months off and think he'll still survive until next season.

Agree with all your post Mark. 

On this, we could see the next three months Smith trying to prove to everyone that he is the right man to take us into next season.

The problem is he’s working with players who for the most part aren’t going to have a future at this club, one would assume anyway. Whether Smith can get a tune out of them when both promotion and their future at the club are more or less gone remains to be seen, the recent form doesn’t suggest he will.

Whether the board will consider that, I don’t know.

[LakotaDakota]

9 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

You missed the part where he said sign 10m players instead of 2.5m players. This isn't Brentford. We brought in Dean Smith to hopefully replicate what he did at Brentford with a similar set-up but on a bigger scale.

I didn't miss it, Including loanees & kids we have about 30 players that are out of contract in 4 months time. 7 or 8 of those have played a reasonable amount of games this season so in order to even put a team  out next season we are going to need to buy 6 or 7 first team players. FFP will mean that we can not spend 50 million on players so we will need to do some scratting around the bargain bins

[markavfc40]

14 minutes ago, Shropshire Lad said:

Agree with all your post Mark. 

On this, we could see the next three months Smith trying to prove to everyone that he is the right man to take us into next season.

The problem is he’s working with players who for the most part aren’t going to have a future at this club, one would assume anyway. Whether Smith can get a tune out of them when both promotion and their future at the club are more or less gone remains to be seen, the recent form doesn’t suggest he will.

Whether the board will consider that, I don’t know.

His managerial skills are going to be tested and how do you get the best out of someone who potentially knows they won't be here next season.

I said in an earlier post some seem to think that a number of players were informed a number of weeks ago that they have no future here. I don't know who in their right mind would do that with pretty much half a season to go but then having done it, seen a drop off in form to then loan out a handful players who may be here next season and continue to play those who won't and apparently no longer care is very strange.

As a manager I guess he now just as to get into players heads and say they are in the shop window. I'd imagine Whelan and Hutton have no future but in fairness to them whilst the quality is lacking they will still put a shift in. There are others though like Adomah and Kodjia who don't seem to care.

I think it goes beyond just the players though. The whole way we approach games as changed. We no longer press high, we play with two sitting midfielders and our wide men no longer push onto the opposing teams fullback instead they are more concerned with tracking back. As I said Smith has gone from on the font foot attacking football with the emphasis on how we can hurt teams to now being concerned with what teams can do to us and it shows in how we set up.

Edited February 14, 2019 by markavfc40

[DaveAV1]

6 hours ago, Nigel said:

I meant when Smith finishes a season we wont have to start the team building all over again, as we had to with Bruce and his reliance on high end loans.

Ah ok. Yes hopefully we may have some semblance of stability by then, if that’s possible with AVFC.

[Thug]

Grealish.

 

The lad buys SO much time on the ball. Defenders don’t know whether he’s going to ghost past them, or play the pass.  Allows our team to get into position and provide support.

clearly we shouldn’t be so reliant on one player, but Smith knew how to use him.  Without him we don’t look like creating.

McGinn, love him with all his running and endeavour the incredible use of his butt to keep the ball, just doesn’t have the same get your team mates involved by slowing the tempo down flair, and he’s been the Grealish replacement.

We need Jack back.

[DaveAV1]

19 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I said in an earlier post some seem to think that a number of players were informed a number of weeks ago that they have no future here. 

I like you can’t imagine why anyone would tell somebody that they have no future at this stage of the season. However it’s pretty obvious, without spelling it out, that for a number of players that is the case. Getting a tune out of these players is indeed a challenge, some more than others. You’ve already identified those that are proving to be the biggest challenge and have been since before Dean Smith arrived. 

[Thug]

11 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

I like you can’t imagine why anyone would tell somebody that they have no future at this stage of the season. However it’s pretty obvious, without spelling it out, that for a number of players that is the case. Getting a tune out of these players is indeed a challenge, some more than others. You’ve already identified those that are proving to be the biggest challenge and have been since before Dean Smith arrived. 

You’d think that would spur them on to play harder for a future elsewhere.

[vreitti]

22 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I think it goes beyond just the players though. The whole way we approach games as changed. We no longer press high, we play with two sitting midfielders and our wide men no longer push onto the opposing teams fullback instead they are more concerned with tracking back. As I said Smith has gone from on the font foot attacking football with the emphasis on how we can hurt teams to now being concerned with what teams can do to us and it shows in how we set up.

A valid observation and very worrying indeed. I feel the change in approach is intentional. I think Smith realized the obvious deficiencies with our defending, and tried to fix it by totally changing the way we play. Problem is it isn't working. Then again, I don't think his earlier gung-ho approach was sustainable in the long run either. We just don't have the energy for 'gegenpressing'. He needs to find a solution fast, that much is certain. I just can't fathom why the exact same thing seems to be happening to all our managers. 

[MaVilla]

21 minutes ago, vreitti said:

I just can't fathom why the exact same thing seems to be happening to all our managers. 

Aston villa - The 9 Stages of Grief:

Stage 1 - Villa appoint Manager.

Stage 2 - Villa fans say "OMG he's the best manager we have had in years he will win the league / get us in to Europe / finish in the top 6 / sort out all our bomb squad players / build a new squad / replace our c*** players / get us playing football (delete as appropriate), we need to stick with this one for the long haul so he can develop a club culture and style, we really need to let him develop a good passing style.

Stage 3 - New Manager signs players.

Stage 4 - villa fans say "OMG we have the best squad in the league / a squad capable of Europe / a squad capable of top 6 / a squad capable of playing real football (delete as appropriate)

Stage 5 - Team performs terribly for months.

Stage 6 - Villa fans say "OMG our players are old / terrible / overpaid / not capable of passing / scared of the ball / scared of Villa being a "big club" (delete as required)

Stage 7 - Villa fans say "our manager is crap / incompetent / cant handle a big club / cant play a modern brand of football / bought a load of crap players / cant handle tactics / didnt want him anyway / we need to employ Allardyce / Bruce / Warnock / insert other long ball manager [here] / we need to start playing more direct and lumping the ball forward to get more chances to our target men (delete as required)

Stage 8 - Manager is sacked / players are sold / released / run 50k contract down (delete as required)

Stage 9 - Never learn from previous mistakes.

 

Once stage 9 is complete, go back to stage 1, do not pass go, do not collect £200 (or promotion, or a future, or anything resembling a club with a culture or identity).

and REPEAT, and REPEAT......FOREVER!

Edited February 14, 2019 by MaVilla

[Dave J]

1 hour ago, LakotaDakota said:

I didn't miss it, Including loanees & kids we have about 30 players that are out of contract in 4 months time. 7 or 8 of those have played a reasonable amount of games this season so in order to even put a team  out next season we are going to need to buy 6 or 7 first team players. FFP will mean that we can not spend 50 million on players so we will need to do some scratting around the bargain bins

I wonder who might we point the finger at ? If the guru had done his job  - this conversation would not be happening 

Edited February 14, 2019 by Dave J

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

4 hours ago, screwdriver said:

He's always having a sly pop at the fans, "its a tough place to come on when we are behind at Villa Park" now he's started name calling the players. Bet they love him even more for that!

West Brom is MUST WIN

[Keyblade]

1 hour ago, LakotaDakota said:

I didn't miss it, Including loanees & kids we have about 30 players that are out of contract in 4 months time. 7 or 8 of those have played a reasonable amount of games this season so in order to even put a team  out next season we are going to need to buy 6 or 7 first team players. FFP will mean that we can not spend 50 million on players so we will need to do some scratting around the bargain bins

This isn't a 1 year project. If FFP means we have to dial it back while we rebuild, then it just pushes back the time frame but nothing changes regarding the plan. Once we get clear of FFP, Smith will be able to operate on a much bigger scale than anything he's seen at Brentford.

That's assuming FFP will even be a major factor. We were told this summer that FFP would hamstring us this season but we ended up signing at least 15 players including an 80k/week Yannick Bolasie. So I'll reserve judgement on that until we either see it play out or hear it from the horse's mouth.

[hippo]

2 hours ago, Reivax_Villa said:

We lost to a team that DS assembled over 3 years. This team has been assembled over 6-8 months by two managers..

Watching Brentford made me realise the type of players and style we could look forward to at Villa Park.

The teams that we look to replicate all have a long term strategy and have kept faith in their manager.

We have been in this league for three seasons yet we have a section of fans that still think that we are a premier league club and looking for a quick fix..

Purslow is not stupid, we are going to build effectively and slowly and this is going to be a tough journey. 

For me, if you are not backing the manager you are not backing the club that decided to place faith in him.

As I said before, this summer is going to be interesting.

But the teams DS builds leak goals and persistently finish mid table. ...Is that what we are waiting for ?

[VillanousOne]

the future/long term plan is one thing but we are playing arch rivals on Saturday.

Can anyone tell me how Deano picks up these group of players and gets them ready for a derby?

when you have so many underperforming utterly inept players from midfield to attack in a formation that is utterly useless with tactics too match?

Adomah, El Ghazi, Kodjia, Connor and to a lesser extent Whelan as at least he tries, week in week out are making a mockery of this great club.

And their dire form and attitude is infecting the whole squad.

Much as I want Green to be the answer I doubt he can come into a side this woeful and turn things round.

No one wants to give Jed another try, Thor has been rubbish when he's played, not sure if Carroll is fit, so who do you turn to? Doyle Hayles?

Give Ramsey a go? Actually play him in the Grealish role?

 

[hippo]

54 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

Aston villa - The 9 Stages of Grief:

Stage 1 - Villa appoint Manager.

Stage 2 - Villa fans say "OMG he's the best manager we have had in years he will win the league / get us in to Europe / finish in the top 6 / sort out all our bomb squad players / build a new squad / replace our c*** players / get us playing football (delete as appropriate), we need to stick with this one for the long haul so he can develop a club culture and style, we really need to let him develop a good passing style.

Stage 3 - New Manager signs players.

Stage 4 - villa fans say "OMG we have the best squad in the league / a squad capable of Europe / a squad capable of top 6 / a squad capable of playing real football (delete as appropriate)

Stage 5 - Team performs terribly for months.

Stage 6 - Villa fans say "OMG our players are old / terrible / overpaid / not capable of passing / scared of the ball / scared of Villa being a "big club" (delete as required)

Stage 7 - Villa fans say "our manager is crap / incompetent / cant handle a big club / cant play a modern brand of football / bought a load of crap players / cant handle tactics / didnt want him anyway / we need to employ Allardyce / Bruce / Warnock / insert other long ball manager [here] / we need to start playing more direct and lumping the ball forward to get more chances to our target men (delete as required)

Stage 8 - Manager is sacked / players are sold / released / run 50k contract down (delete as required)

Stage 9 - Never learn from previous mistakes.

 

Once stage 9 is complete, go back to stage 1, do not pass go, do not collect £200 (or promotion, or a future, or anything resembling a club with a culture or identity).

and REPEAT, and REPEAT......FOREVER!

a unique post as I am not sure if its pro or anti smith ...I would say the cycle is a lot simpler 

1.Villa appoint poor manager

2.Somebody - put the word out that he is part of a plan, has a clear ethos and is working on an identity.

3.Results are poor - some say give him time as he is creating an identity - others scream for him to be replaced

4.He gets the sack due to poor results

1.Villa appoint poor manager.