Popular Post markavfc40 Posted January 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, KentVillan said: Anyone attacking Dean Smith before he gets a full pre-season and summer transfer window is jumping the gun. This is still a salvage job at the moment. I agree. There is something fundamentally wrong at this football club. At the game on Saturday I pretty didn't recognise one name in the Hull team. Likewise at Wigan the week before. Despite a couple of injuries on paper we should be good enough to beat the likes of QPR, Hull, Wigan, Preston. Over our last 4 games though we have taken 3 points from those games and not won any. A team with the Croatian number 1 in goal. A back line of Hutton Taylor, Elphick, Chester whilst not great isn't terrible for this level. A front 3 of Bolaise, Abraham, Adomah is as good as any at this level and a midfield of Hourihane, McGinn, Bjarnason whilst lacking a natural defensive midfielder should be more than capable of holding its own against the teams we have faced recently. I think the major issue we have is not that the players aren't good enough to beat the likes of Wigan, Preston, Hull, QPR it is that they don't want it badly enough. I stood at Wigan last week in a half empty stadium which included 5k away fans and thought how lucky are our players that very other week they step out at Villa Park in front of 35k fans. Likewise how lucky are they to have great training facilities. That they get paid a way above average wage for this level. I think the trouble we have is that for many of our players this is as good as it gets for them. If we go up the likes of Taylor, Hutton, Elphick, Elmo Hourihane, Bjarnason, Whelan, Adomah won't be good enough to play in the Premier League. Too many of our squad are on their way down and not foaming at the mouth with ambition on their way up. It is noticeable that our three best players in McGinn, Grealish and Abraham are all young and hungry. All on the way up. All doing their best and giving their all game in game out. I'd imagine they are the same in training as well. They know that Aston Villa in the Championship is not as good as it gets for them. Aston Villa in the Premier League maybe but with or without us those players are striving for better. We need a whole rethink of what we are doing as a club and I think it has started. No more short term fixes. What we need is a complete rebuild. Out with players whose best days are behind them and rebuild with a squad packed with players who are young and hungry. A mixture of the best of our home grown players and bringing in players who are on the up. As supporters we are going to have a big part to play in this rebuild as we are going to have be patient and allow two or three transfer windows and time for a team to evolve. Demanding change whilst a club is trying to rebuild and getting on players and managers backs isn't going to work so no more of this impatient crap and a toxic atmosphere when results aren't instantly forthcoming or we go on a poor run I actually think as a fan base we will buy into something more long term as I'd imagine many of us are sick to the back teeth of the short term, quick fix high earners, heavily reliant on two or three individuals method that has failed us three times. Edited January 21, 2019 by markavfc40 23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 19 hours ago, Uncle Albert said: Deano is our man, let him have his players and see where were at. Were not suddenly gonna turn into a total football ajax team over night. Results have been frustrating of late i admit, but as mentioned earlier i dont want to see smith changing his style to suit the cloggers we have. The men at the top have put there trust in smith to guide us back to where we belong, and after saving us in the summer the very least we owe them is to get behind the man they appointed to steer this big ship in the right direction. UTV Lets be absolutely clear here....you can have a great reputation for expansive football and have very impressive possession stats. Most of them also have a very impressive record of pressing and closing down....Klopp is the modern day high priest of GegenPressing...its his forte.....Pep plays a version of it too. These teams that have all the technical abilities in the world.....Also work their nuts off.....with and without the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Sounds like it’s pretty toxic at the club again which might explain the past few weeks. No idea how it has started, if it is true. why do we always seem to have this issue with our squad? So weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 25 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: I agree. There is something fundamentally wrong at this football club. At the game on Saturday I pretty didn't recognise one name in the Hull team. Likewise at Wigan the week before. Despite a couple of injuries on paper at least we should be good enough to beat the likes of QPR, Hull, Wigan, Preston. Over our last 4 games though we have taken 3 points from those games and not won any. A team with the Croatian number 1 in goal. A back line of Hutton Taylor, Elphick, Chester whilst not great isn't terrible for this level. A front 3 of Bolaise, Abraham, Adomah is as good as any at this level and a midfield of Hourihane, McGinn, Bjarnason whilst lacking a natural defence midfielder and a natural number 10 should be more than capable of holding its own against the teams we have faced recently. I think the major issue we have is not that the players aren't good enough to beat the likes of Wigan, Preston, Hull, QPR it is that they don't want it badly enough. I stood at Wigan last week in a half empty stadium which included 5k away fans and thought how lucky are our players that very other week they step out at Villa Park in front of 35k fans. Likewise how lucky are they to have great training facilities. That they get paid a way above average wage for this level. I think the trouble we have is that for many of our players is that this is as good as it gets for them. If we go up the likes of Taylor, Hutton, Elphick, Hourihane, Bjarnason, Whelan, Adomah won't be good enough to play in the Premier League. Too many of our squad are on their way down and not foaming at the mouth with ambition on their way up. It is noticeable that our three best players in McGinn, Grealish and Abraham are all young and hungry. All on the way up. All doing their best and giving their all game in game out. I'd imagine they are the same in training as well. They know that Aston Villa in the Championship is not as good as it gets for them. Aston Villa in the Premier League maybe but with or without us those players are striving for better. We need a whole rethink of what we are doing as a club and I think it has started. No more short term fixes. What we need is a complete rebuild. Out with players whose best days are behind them and a squad packed with players who are young and hungry. A mixture of the best of our home grown players and bringing in players who are on the up. As supporters we are going to have a big part to play in this rebuild as we are going to have be patient and allow two or three transfers windows and time for a team to evolve. Demanding change whilst a club is trying to rebuild and getting on players and managers backs isn't going to work so no more of this impatient crap and a toxic atmosphere when results aren't instantly forthcoming or we go on a poor run I actually think as a fan base we will buy into something more long term as I'd imagine many of us are sick to the back teeth of the short term, quick fix high earners, heavy reliant on two or three individuals method that has failed us three times. Of all the tree's in the Forest, I Believe you are barking up the RIGHT one.....good post Mark. I hope those that matter, think so too. It will take time, but the rebuild has to happen and it has to happen how you have eloquently described. We need to build it like Ron Saunders & Graham Taylor built it on similar principles....I make no apologies for mentioning those two because they got it right. It does not go unnoticed for me either, that teams with players who are on wages that dwarf our players wages, like Hazard, Aguero, Rashford, etc graft their wotsits off, now they do have an excuse to not get stuck in and stand off. You are right Mark it has been a feature of our recent culture ( last 10 years) and its the main reason we are where we are. Hull could so easily have scored 4 not 2....and yet outside of Bowen, who has had a meteoric rise in profile....not many of our fans would have any of those players....and the same can be said for the teams you have highlighted as previous fixtures. I am desperately hoping it changes. Who was Bremner, Evans, Swain,Carradus, Deacy, Cropley, Rimmer, Morley?....before we signed them....sure we was fortunate to have Shaw, Little and Cowans coming through.....but there is a parrallel here somewhere. We need to get back to focusing on the basics of the game. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 48 minutes ago, Tayls said: Sounds like it’s pretty toxic at the club again which might explain the past few weeks. No idea how it has started, if it is true. why do we always seem to have this issue with our squad? So weird. A training session under Bruce was probably a few laps and a kickabout. We already know Smith has talked about training at match intensity before, so I presume that is it. They are physically being asked to do more, and probably mentally to in terms of actually thinking about the game. Smith needs to get shot of them if they are not willing. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, sne said: You can if you was managed by Ron Saunders....He made sure of it. I guess Shankly was the same. at Wimbledon you just had to kill a sheep and drink the blood.....we sing a song for initiation. get the drift. Edited January 21, 2019 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Tayls said: Sounds like it’s pretty toxic at the club again which might explain the past few weeks. No idea how it has started, if it is true. why do we always seem to have this issue with our squad? So weird. I think the problem has been because the squad has brought together for all the wrong reasons. Those reasons in the main being money and for what they have achieved in the past. We’re buying expensive egos instead of desire. We need players with a future not a past. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fowlersrs Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 I've heard rumours of a certain few not sharing Smiths ideologies... Bolasie being the first name, Kodija, Whelan and Hutton also not playing ball... Looks like we could see quite a different squad next year... Viva la Smith revolution 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Tayls said: Sounds like it’s pretty toxic at the club again To be honest mate, Bolasie throwing his tools out the pram aside, there is no evidence to suggest the club is toxic unless I've missed something? 1 hour ago, Tayls said: which might explain the past few weeks. No idea how it has started, if it is true. For me the drop in form is simply down to injuries to Jack and Axel. People will rightly say that our form shouldn't drop off so severely just because of a couple of injuries, but these two are completely integral to how Smith wants us to play. We simply don't have anyone in the squad that can pass a football effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairy In Boots Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Fowlersrs said: I've heard rumours of a certain few not sharing Smiths ideologies... Bolasie being the first name, Kodija, Whelan and Hutton also not playing ball... Looks like we could see quite a different squad next year... Viva la Smith revolution All had 10 year careers, all knackers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Fowlersrs said: I've heard rumours of a certain few not sharing Smiths ideologies... Smith - Right lads, pass and move. Hutton/Whelan - Where to boss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMitch Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Just now, av1 said: To be honest mate, Bolasie throwing his tools out the pram aside, there is no evidence to suggest the club is toxic unless I've missed something? For me the drop in form is simply down to injuries to Jack and Axel. People will rightly say that our form shouldn't drop off so severely just because of a couple of injuries, but these two are completely integral to how Smith wants us to play. We simply don't have anyone in the squad that can pass a football effectively. Spot on... There are definitely some confidence issues at play, too. We looked like a completely different team against Hull after Chester's goal. It was almost like a weight was lifted off of everyone's' shoulders and everyone started trying again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tayls said: Sounds like it’s pretty toxic at the club again which might explain the past few weeks. No idea how it has started, if it is true. why do we always seem to have this issue with our squad? So weird. So both assumptions then with no fact? Sounds like, but no idea? 16 minutes ago, Fowlersrs said: I've heard rumours of a certain few not sharing Smiths ideologies... Bolasie being the first name, Kodija, Whelan and Hutton also not playing ball... Chinese whispers possibly or assumption as above? FWIW, I have it on good authority that since Axel & Jack have been injured we have went to ****. Edited January 21, 2019 by AvfcRigo82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, Fowlersrs said: I've heard rumours of a certain few not sharing Smiths ideologies... Bolasie being the first name, Kodija, Whelan and Hutton also not playing ball... Looks like we could see quite a different squad next year... Viva la Smith revolution 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: We need players with a future not a past. Correct Dave. *It's okay if they may have had a past, but still need to be a decent age and still offer us a future to some extent. Of players we have signed in the past not many have fell into that bracket sadly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: Correct Dave. *It's okay if they may have had a past, but still need to be a decent age and still offer us a future to some extent. Of players we have signed in the past not many have fell into that bracket sadly. Agreed. Hopefully McGinn will fall into this bracket in time, but Ashley Young was probably the last young player we signed that became a top player. Our scouting has been awful for a number of years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: Correct Dave. *It's okay if they may have had a past, but still need to be a decent age and still offer us a future to some extent. Of players we have signed in the past not many have fell into that bracket sadly. You’re right, the team doesn’t necessarily have to be entirely made up of youngsters, but they still have to have desire regardless of their age. JT would be a good example, he wanted to win every match he ever played in and it mattered to him regardless of what he’d already won. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, av1 said: Agreed. Hopefully McGinn will fall into this bracket in time, but Ashley Young was probably the last young player we signed that became a top player. Our scouting has been awful for a number of years now. Benteke? although his time at the top was short lived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Just now, av1 said: Agreed. Hopefully McGinn will fall into this bracket in time, but Ashley Young was probably the last young player we signed that became a top player. Our scouting has been awful for a number of years now. Have we had network since O'Neill left and Smith arrived? Going by 3/4 of the shite we've signed in that time I assume we havn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, sne said: Benteke? although his time at the top was short lived. Yep fair point, forgot about Benteke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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