Dean Smith

[Peter Griffin]

1 minute ago, nick76 said:

Not really!

What is Not really?

[nick76]

13 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I completely disagree with saying it is the right answer. Obviously,  there are difference between clubs with funding, board etc but that is the same in all walks of life and in all businesses. Why do you think businesses benchmark themselves against other companies?

 I literally do what you are talking about for a living and it’s not a comparable analogy imo

 

 

I’m dropping out of this thread for a few days.  I think Blandy’s point above sums my view up as well.  I think with the various posters we are going round in more circles than even usual, so I’m done!

Edited October 21, 2021 by nick76

[Peter Griffin]

7 minutes ago, nick76 said:

 I literally do what you are talking about for a living and it’s not a comparable analogy imo

I do a lot of that too. Why is it not comparable. AVFC is a business, we should absolutely be benchmarking against other PL teams and more so against teams more comparable to AVFC i.e. not the likes of Man City or Norwich. I would be shocked if people at AVFC did not benchmark every aspect of our team, players, coaches and gaffer. Why do u think it is not comparable?

[sheepyvillian]

Same old suspects, same old shite.

[Tayls]

He has to get a win from this team tomorrow. We can’t be losing three games in a row in this league, it will set us up terribly for the remainder of the season, in my view. The players need to show that they are responding to his management style as well, particularly the new ones. 

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Peter Griffin said:

What manager(s) would be most appropriate to compare Smith to? or is a critical comparison not allowed?

Of course its ok to compare, but it depends what it is used for, if its a bit of fun, fine.....if its a character assassination, then its not.

I done a spreadsheet for myself, just for curiosity sake....as you might know Pep is top with 72.46%...and some haven't played enough games for it to have any credit.

Dean is in 14th place for win ratio in a league table of managers with wins only at their existing clubs....but now managing in the Premier league....some like Dean and Daniel have managed in the championship, which should in fact aid their standing.

Dean is 14th with  40.74%

Daniel Farke is at 13th with 42.2 %

Sean Dyche is at 15th with 36.3%

Of course it depends how much credence you put in to it...some believe in it, some don't....but, sadly, it just  adds to the dichotomy, which is unfortunate.

Edited October 21, 2021 by TRO

[Keyblade]

13 minutes ago, Tayls said:

He has to get a win from this team tomorrow. We can’t be losing three games in a row in this league, it will set us up terribly for the remainder of the season, in my view. The players need to show that they are responding to his management style as well, particularly the new ones. 

Why would the 9th game of the season set us up for the rest of the season? What's the significance there?

[Woody1000]

I think @nick76 has got the right idea, this thread is so tiresome to read right now.

[Zatman]

20 minutes ago, Tayls said:

He has to get a win from this team tomorrow. We can’t be losing three games in a row in this league, it will set us up terribly for the remainder of the season, in my view. The players need to show that they are responding to his management style as well, particularly the new ones. 

Liverpool lost 4 league games in a row last season 

[TRO]

9 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Why would the 9th game of the season set us up for the rest of the season? What's the significance there?

I would hazard a guess, at Momentum/feelgood factor....I think that's what he is getting at.

[TRO]

3 hours ago, GingerCollins29 said:

Dean will demand a performance tomorrow and i think he'll get it too

I hope so, who motivates the motivator......Results.

Its synergy....he motivates them, they motivate him, thats the cycle.

He needs a confidence booster too....all performance driven folk do.

you only have to look at Klopp now, like a dog with 2 wotsits.

Edited October 21, 2021 by TRO

[Tomaszk]

39 minutes ago, Tayls said:

He has to get a win from this team tomorrow. We can’t be losing three games in a row in this league, it will set us up terribly for the remainder of the season, in my view. The players need to show that they are responding to his management style as well, particularly the new ones. 

What? Why?

Good job we aren't playing City away isn't it! Lucky boy Deano.

[Tayls]

40 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Why would the 9th game of the season set us up for the rest of the season? What's the significance there?

Doesn’t matter what game number it is. Losing three in a row is when things start to become uncomfortable, lots of questions being asked, form of players etc. It would also be a fifth defeat in nine… wouldn’t be that impressive really, would it? 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Tayls

[Tayls]

28 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Liverpool lost 4 league games in a row last season 

Ok… what’s that got to do with Villa? 

[Keyblade]

30 minutes ago, Tayls said:

Doesn’t matter what game number it is. Losing three in a row is when things start to become uncomfortable, lots of questions being asked, form of players etc. It would also be a fifth defeat in nine… wouldn’t be that impressive really, would it? 

Better teams than us lose 3 games in a row, including our next opponents who lost their first 3 games but are now unbeaten in the last 5. If we were in some type of run-in, then I can see a run of results "setting us up" for something as it were, but we're not even a quarter of the season in. 3 game samples mean nothing really.

[blandy]

3 hours ago, Peter Griffin said:

Why do you think businesses benchmark themselves against other companies?

That’s my point. Compare (via league tables, if you like). But individual people are not businesses, so to compare one element of a business or football team against another individual element of a football team is to miss the point completely.  it’s a collective effort not solely down to the manager who is only a part of the business/football club. There are so many elements that make up the success or failure of a team over a period of time that comparing one individual component of that team to a component of another team is utterly futile.

[QldVilla]

3 hours ago, Peter Griffin said:

I do a lot of that too. Why is it not comparable. AVFC is a business, we should absolutely be benchmarking against other PL teams and more so against teams more comparable to AVFC i.e. not the likes of Man City or Norwich. I would be shocked if people at AVFC did not benchmark every aspect of our team, players, coaches and gaffer. Why do u think it is not comparable?

Because the average person has no understanding of the nuances of coaching or what is required at an elite level.

Although run like a business its foundation is sport and the metrics in sport performance are completely different to those in business.

[ozvillafan]

Football management must be the easiest role to measure KPI. There is a table which points out your position. You set a goal for a particular place (or places) and see how you are tracking after each game.

When it comes to Dean Smith - I'm certain the board have a place on the table in mind for where we need to be and will take action if we are not reaching that goal.

How other managers are doing and their relative goals is a lovely thing to discuss - but has no bearing on Dean's ability to reach his target, which I think he will (assuming the goal is progress on last season, which means top half finish).

[Keyblade]

29 minutes ago, ozvillafan said:

Football management must be the easiest role to measure KPI. There is a table which points out your position. You set a goal for a particular place (or places) and see how you are tracking after each game.

When it comes to Dean Smith - I'm certain the board have a place on the table in mind for where we need to be and will take action if we are not reaching that goal.

How other managers are doing and their relative goals is a lovely thing to discuss - but has no bearing on Dean's ability to reach his target, which I think he will (assuming the goal is progress on last season, which means top half finish).

This is it really. The problem I think is there's a discrepancy between the target some fans have and the reality on the ground.

[QldVilla]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

Of course its ok to compare, but it depends what it is used for, if its a bit of fun, fine.....if its a character assassination, then its not.

I done a spreadsheet for myself, just for curiosity sake....as you might know Pep is top with 72.46%...and some haven't played enough games for it to have any credit.

Dean is in 14th place for win ratio in a league table of managers with wins only at their existing clubs....but now managing in the Premier league....some like Dean and Daniel have managed in the championship, which should in fact aid their standing.

Dean is 14th with  40.74%

Daniel Farke is at 13th with 42.2 %

Sean Dyche is at 15th with 36.3%

Of course it depends how much credence you put in to it...some believe in it, some don't....but, sadly, it just  adds to the dichotomy, which is unfortunate.

What it doesn't measure unfortunately is how each manager would go with each others squad and resources. Peps been at Barcelona, Bayern and City, he's never had to do it hard, and I don't believe the stats are reflective of his actual ability. Yes he is one of the best managers, but would he achieve similar if he had to build something with limited resources like nearly every other manager? Not every manager has the luxury of buying seven world class defenders until they get it right. Klopp, Rodgers both brought teams up from the second tier and even Mourinho slummed it at União de Leiria to prove his managerial ability.

Win ratios can be misleading.