Dean Smith

[DCJonah]

3 hours ago, PussEKatt said:

Thats exactly what I am trying to get across.If the fans are happy with midtable then that is probably what we will get.If,on the other hand the fans want more from the team/manager/club then they have to voice their dissapointment in how the season is going and demand change.

Oh that's how it works. 

Demand change. God we've got some entitled fans in our mix. I'm so glad they're the minority  

[DCJonah]

14 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

Ha.

Yes, we make too many individual errors and it costs us points often.

Not sure what more the manager can do on those really. 

Don't think he's telling players to shit themselves and slice clearances up in the air or duck out of headers.

Players aren't robots. We aren't going to win every week. We aren't going to play well every week.

Looks like the complaint is we sometimes play badly and lose.

That's football. 

We're still on an upward curve, I'm enjoying it.

If the expectation is we should keep improving massively every year and win the league soon, good luck to you.

It's a Dean Smith thing. We're the only team who lose games by not being at their best and being out played. 

Utter madness the lengths some will go to ignore football in order to carry on.

[TomC]

On 18/10/2021 at 06:03, VillaChris said:

Think start of December is the point to judge. If we're still 12th after playing all of Southampton, Brighton, Palace in a few weeks then things will start getting pretty tricky for DS I think.

Agreed. I'd put Boxing Day as the day. That will be the midpoint...19 matches. (The schedule isn't quite symmetric...we play Chelsea twice in the first half of the season and Leeds twice in the second.)

We had 55 points last year. 60 points would be a decent improvement. We need 30 points at halfway to be on pace. We have 10 points now. How do we get another 20?

We have five matches coming up against mid-table teams...Arsenal, West Ham, Soton, Brighton (currently above mid-table but likely to drop), and Palace. We need 3 wins and a draw to get 10 points from that block. Difficult, but doable. To me, this is the key block of the season. At the other extreme, if we take only 4 or 5 points from the block, like you said, we have a problem.

The last six matches before halfway are two relegation strugglers (Burnley and Norwich) and 4 teams from last year's top 5 (Man City, Leicester, Liverpool, Chelsea). Again, we need 10 points from that block, though it's 6 matches instead of 5. 6 points from Burnley and Norwich, then a win and a draw against the top sides would do it. Again, difficult, but doable. We got 6 points from Chelsea, Man U, Everton, and Spurs, so why not 4 from Man C/Leicester/Liverpool/Chelsea? My bigger worry is Burnley and Norwich. Those are the sorts of games where we don't get the job done.

In short, improvement on last year is looking difficult, but I wouldn't write off the possibility yet. It's still early.

 

 

 

[DCJonah]

8 minutes ago, TomC said:

Agreed. I'd put Boxing Day as the day. That will be the midpoint...19 matches. (The schedule isn't quite symmetric...we play Chelsea twice in the first half of the season and Leeds twice in the second.)

We had 55 points last year. 60 points would be a decent improvement. We need 30 points at halfway to be on pace. We have 10 points now. How do we get another 20?

We have five matches coming up against mid-table teams...Arsenal, West Ham, Soton, Brighton (currently above mid-table but likely to drop), and Palace. We need 3 wins and a draw to get 10 points from that block. Difficult, but doable. To me, this is the key block of the season. At the other extreme, if we take only 4 or 5 points from the block, like you said, we have a problem.

The last six matches before halfway are two relegation strugglers (Burnley and Norwich) and 4 teams from last year's top 5 (Man City, Leicester, Liverpool, Chelsea). Again, we need 10 points from that block, though it's 6 matches instead of 5. 6 points from Burnley and Norwich, then a win and a draw against the top sides would do it. Again, difficult, but doable. We got 6 points from Chelsea, Man U, Everton, and Spurs, so why not 4 from Man C/Leicester/Liverpool/Chelsea? My bigger worry is Burnley and Norwich. Those are the sorts of games where we don't get the job done.

In short, improvement on last year is looking difficult, but I wouldn't write off the possibility yet. It's still early.

 

 

 

It depends if you only go by points. Usually 55 pts would get you easily in the top 10. So we could potentially finish 10th or 9th with less than 55 points 

[TomC]

3 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

It depends if you only go by points. Usually 55 pts would get you easily in the top 10. So we could potentially finish 10th or 9th with less than 55 points 

Good point. Going backwards, 60 points would have been...

9th last season

6th

7th

7th

8th

 

[villabromsgrove]

22 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Oh that's how it works. 

Demand change. God we've got some entitled fans in our mix. I'm so glad they're the minority  

I've just had a three way call with two of my sons and I was impressed by some of the chat about where Villa currently are.

Whatever our individual feelings are about how Villa and Smith are performing, we've been discussing the fact that we (the supporters) aren't the people that matter.

NSWE took over Villa with a business plan for where they wanted to take AVFC. Look at the current stats .... Are they impressed with progress right now?

Ignore the stats of the last three years in terms of the future (tomorrow onwards). Smith has done well to get us to where we are, but are there concrete signs that this season's targets are going to be met?

Edens and Sawiris are not prepared to stand still. It isn't in their business plan.

Can anyone tell me what Smith's formation and plan is going forward? How will we be playing next week, next month, after Christmas?

We can hope Dean comes up with the right answers, but does anyone really believe that we will become a consistent team this season? We can speculate but we just don't know, will our owners settle for the uncertainty?

I mentioned Edens before Sawiris earlier and I did this because of Edens incisive and ruthless joint owner style with the Bucks. NSWE have a plan and it's not about love, loyalty and cosiness. It's about progress.

If the answer up until now has been only about buying a couple of better players each transfer window, then do we think they will now ignore the ultimate potential of the man in charge of the team?

I've asked a number of questions after a good long chat with my sons, I would love to hear what you guys think.

[Peter Griffin]

4 hours ago, nick76 said:

I think the last thing either side can truly claim is that they are being objective including myself in this thread.  Neither side think the other is being objective in this conversation.

Please highlight anything you think I have posted that isn't objective. There is absolutely nothing wrong with discussing Dean's possible weaknesses and what type of manager could Villa attract if Dean was to leave his role. That is objectively looking at the situation. Looking at it subjectively with bias would be saying that people shouldn't talk about a possible Dean replacement as that isn't on the agenda.

[foreveryoung]

1 hour ago, Tomaszk said:

Ha.

Yes, we make too many individual errors and it costs us points often.

Not sure what more the manager can do on those really. 

Don't think he's telling players to shit themselves and slice clearances up in the air or duck out of headers.

Players aren't robots. We aren't going to win every week. We aren't going to play well every week.

Looks like the complaint is we sometimes play badly and lose.

That's football. 

We're still on an upward curve, I'm enjoying it.

If the expectation is we should keep improving massively every year and win the league soon, good luck to you.

Bloody hell mate, had a bad day?

I'll answer the first one. Players can be coached to stop making such basic errors, this has always been in a few players games. Concentration. mentality!!

[hippo]

38 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said:

I've just had a three way call with two of my sons and I was impressed by some of the chat about where Villa currently are.

Whatever our individual feelings are about how Villa and Smith are performing, we've been discussing the fact that we (the supporters) aren't the people that matter.

NSWE took over Villa with a business plan for where they wanted to take AVFC. Look at the current stats .... Are they impressed with progress right now?

Ignore the stats of the last three years in terms of the future (tomorrow onwards). Smith has done well to get us to where we are, but are there concrete signs that this season's targets are going to be met?

Edens and Sawiris are not prepared to stand still. It isn't in their business plan.

Can anyone tell me what Smith's formation and plan is going forward? How will we be playing next week, next month, after Christmas?

We can hope Dean comes up with the right answers, but does anyone really believe that we will become a consistent team this season? We can speculate but we just don't know, will our owners settle for the uncertainty?

I mentioned Edens before Sawiris earlier and I did this because of Edens incisive and ruthless joint owner style with the Bucks. NSWE have a plan and it's not about love, loyalty and cosiness. It's about progress.

If the answer up until now has been only about buying a couple of better players each transfer window, then do we think they will now ignore the ultimate potential of the man in charge of the team?

I've asked a number of questions after a good long chat with my sons, I would love to hear what you guys think.

Assumption overload on the NSWE position. Sure they would like Europe - which owners wouldn't. But I'm not sensing a massive upheaval if we miss out. I think Europe is viewed very much as a bonus at this stage.

From having nothing we've built a team for £200m approx. That doesn't smack of rubbing shoulders with the big 4.

 

[hippo]

1 hour ago, Tomaszk said:

Ha.

Yes, we make too many individual errors and it costs us points often.

Not sure what more the manager can do on those really. 

Don't think he's telling players to shit themselves and slice clearances up in the air or duck out of headers.

Players aren't robots. We aren't going to win every week. We aren't going to play well every week.

Looks like the complaint is we sometimes play badly and lose.

That's football. 

We're still on an upward curve, I'm enjoying it.

If the expectation is we should keep improving massively every year and win the league soon, good luck to you.

If the head coach can't coach players to minimise errors - and he has no bearing on whether those errors occur or not ....why is he there ?

Not a dig at DS especially - but getting the team to perform is why he (or any other coach) is there.

[nick76]

22 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

Please highlight anything you think I have posted that isn't objective. There is absolutely nothing wrong with discussing Dean's possible weaknesses and what type of manager could Villa attract if Dean was to leave his role. That is objectively looking at the situation. Looking at it subjectively with bias would be saying that people shouldn't talk about a possible Dean replacement as that isn't on the agenda.

I think the difference is what you think is objective is actually opinion that’s all I’m saying.  I love reading your comments because we come from different angles but you use the term objective for your view rather than it’s your opinion.  Just as my view is my opinion.  Being objective is

Quote

(of a person or their judgement) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.

When you discuss Dean you are saying an opinion that you believe something he’s doing is a potential weakness.  That’s an opinion.

We having differing views which great for debate but they’re our opinions ie you may see something and say it is a weakness for discussion but I may not agree the basis that it is an issue or a weakness to begin with.  That’s all.

Anyway it’s just semantics, so if you don’t agree with me it’s fine, let’s get back to the heated subject of Smith.  


 

 

Smith rules! FACT! (Just kidding, it’s an opinion)

[Tomaszk]

1 hour ago, foreveryoung said:

Players can be coached to stop making such basic errors, this has always been in a few players games. Concentration. mentality!

Can they? Interesting. Surprised Smith has told them to have better mentality. Come on guys... concentration!

Strange how the better players make less mistakes isn't it.

Maybe we need a concentration coach?

2 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

If the expectation is we should keep improving massively every year and win the league soon, good luck to you.

See you next time we don't win a game and I need a good laugh.

[foreveryoung]

10 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

Can they? Interesting. Surprised Smith has told them to have better mentality. Come on guys... concentration!

Strange how the better players make less mistakes isn't it.

Maybe we need a concentration coach?

See you next time we don't win a game and I need a good laugh.

Like you'll be laughing if we lose and continue to make mistakes. You have lower expectations than me, that's fine. 

I can't see what's wrong with being frustrated if we lose a game by playing poorly,, especially if it's against inferior opposition.

[Peter Griffin]

8 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

Can they? Interesting. Surprised Smith has told them to have better mentality. Come on guys... concentration!

 

It is surprising that you find it interesting but yes they can be coached to stop making such errors. It starts off with understanding the scenario that the mistakes take place . Mistakes are more likely to happen when the player is under pressure and or out of position. So coaching to keep the player in position helps reduce mistakes. Further, a player can be coached to read the game better and anticipate the next passage of play better. Better reading of the game also helps to reduce basic errors. And you are right, maybe the club should employ a concentration coach. However the role is not call a concentration coach, it is a 'psychology coach'. And another interesting fact is that Wolves have recently appointed Team GB psychologist Dr Kate Ludlam as their First Team Psychologist. Dr Ludlam works on the metal aspect of football to get the players to believe in themselves, maintain concentration and put them in the correct frame of mind to win games. They appear to be able to have the drive to push to the very last minute on Saturday to get 3 points from a game that looked completely lost.

[DCJonah]

So just to clarify. We need to be one of those midtable teams, that are consistent, only lose when they're outplayed, don't make errors and don't have to rely on their one or two best players being fit and available. 

Got it. 

Just curious if a team like this has existed before or is it just the same people setting ridiculous expectations so they can moan and worry about them not being met? 

[nick76]

People talk about game management with Smith, I’m not sure Liverpool have great game management tonight. That should’ve stayed a penalty, what are Liverpool doing, lose a 2-0 lead, back to 2-2 then Liverpool ahead and AM player off and they let back AM back in (why the ref overturned it I don’t know).  Great game for the neutral…five minutes left

Edit: full time - ref let Liverpool off, wow!

Edited October 19, 2021 by nick76

[MrBlack]

22 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

So just to clarify. We need to be one of those midtable teams, that are consistent, only lose when they're outplayed, don't make errors and don't have to rely on their one or two best players being fit and available. 

Got it. 

Just curious if a team like this has existed before or is it just the same people setting ridiculous expectations so they can moan and worry about them not being met? 

Madness isn't it

[Peter Griffin]

29 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

So just to clarify. We need to be one of those midtable teams, that are consistent, only lose when they're outplayed, don't make errors and don't have to rely on their one or two best players being fit and available. 

Got it. 

Just curious if a team like this has existed before or is it just the same people setting ridiculous expectations so they can moan and worry about them not being met? 

We need to be one of those midtable teams that look like we are about to break into the top 7 and demonstrate the consistency of play to finish in the top half

[DCJonah]

Just now, Peter Griffin said:

We need to be one of those midtable teams that look like we are about to break into the top 7 and demonstrate the consistency of play to finish in the top half

Like last season, where 55 pts would more often than not get you in those positions? 

Or like Everton and Leeds last year, with all their consistency? 

[Peter Griffin]

2 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Like last season, where 55 pts would more often than not get you in those positions? 

Or like Everton and Leeds last year, with all their consistency? 

No not like last season, we collapsed in the 2nd half of the season and didn't look like competing for Europe. Not sure what the point about Everton and Leeds is about