Dean Smith

[GrassyNoel]

17 hours ago, villabromsgrove said:

I've just had a three way call with two of my sons and I was impressed by some of the chat about where Villa currently are.

Whatever our individual feelings are about how Villa and Smith are performing, we've been discussing the fact that we (the supporters) aren't the people that matter.

NSWE took over Villa with a business plan for where they wanted to take AVFC. Look at the current stats .... Are they impressed with progress right now?

Ignore the stats of the last three years in terms of the future (tomorrow onwards). Smith has done well to get us to where we are, but are there concrete signs that this season's targets are going to be met?

Edens and Sawiris are not prepared to stand still. It isn't in their business plan.

Can anyone tell me what Smith's formation and plan is going forward? How will we be playing next week, next month, after Christmas?

We can hope Dean comes up with the right answers, but does anyone really believe that we will become a consistent team this season? We can speculate but we just don't know, will our owners settle for the uncertainty?

I mentioned Edens before Sawiris earlier and I did this because of Edens incisive and ruthless joint owner style with the Bucks. NSWE have a plan and it's not about love, loyalty and cosiness. It's about progress.

If the answer up until now has been only about buying a couple of better players each transfer window, then do we think they will now ignore the ultimate potential of the man in charge of the team?

I've asked a number of questions after a good long chat with my sons, I would love to hear what you guys think.

Good post. Ultimately, that's the point. The talk of Europe is either that - talk - or it's what they genuinely want and expect us to achieve. It's up to them, they own us. Our opinions are interesting and (largely) fun to discuss - surely the point of a forum like this - but we're all guessing, venting and spitballing - plus there seem to be some implicit Blasphemy Laws being created (on both sides of the debate) which get in the way.

It'll be interesting to see what moves Newcastle make now Bruce has gone, and I mention this as I strongly suspect whatever direction they take will inform the future direction of our own managerial debate e.g. if they go large for a Zidane profile manager we'll have fans who are cross we haven't done similar and shown more ambition, and if they go are modest and for a longer term growth / youth policy it'll underscore that maybe we are on the right track and being sensible. If they do both...hmmm.

[foreveryoung]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

Dean Smiths abilities will never be questioned on one game.....patterns and trends will though.

Yes I understand that. But sometimes after they have had there ass kicked, we will hopefully see a better performance and work rate.

[Zatman]

24 minutes ago, MrBlack said:

Agreed. I'm pretty sure the insta post from mings saying we must learn from this and not let it happen again is exactly what he said after the last time we capitulated.  Conceding a last minute goal can always happen, but agree that if we lose a 2 goal lead like this again I'd be incredibly annoyed.

That was Crystal Palace, I am sure Mings didnt play that day

[TRO]

8 minutes ago, MrBlack said:

You can establish a culture that works, you can set standards that need to be met, and define what is acceptable and is not. All those things can come through coaching. 

I'm not sure we can coach mentality still, but we can instill confidence and expect not to see a repeat of losing from 2-0 up against a side that up to that point had offered very little.

I'm optimistic for the season still... we'll have our first choice wingers back soon that will give us the boost we need. When they're starting  and the starters against Wolves are the ones coming on instead, we'll be in a much better place.

The subs Smith made were largely forced on him,  but given Nakamba's form hasn't been terrible, and Ramsey had only had one really bad game before wolves, amongst a run of good games, you'd still expect us to hold on. I hope it was a truly freak occurrence,  and we won't see it happen again, at least this season.

We are all clinging to it being a freak occurence, but too many similar situations have happened in the past, not exactly the same but similar.....with probably different players and formations.

I am not blaming Dean Smith for the subs, but I am questioning the overall mentality and application to the last 15-20 minutes.

I have no idea on the fitness or out of gas possibilities, so I assume that was ok.

The sad thing for me is....I couldn't see us doing it to them....They swamped us and we stood for it like " The three card trick"......It was immature and wimp like.

I have not changed my opinion of the season, probably where we finished last season, I see no improvement on that, depending what happens in the Jan Window....and if we carry on with the win one, lose one syndrome, 50- 55 points is about where we will finish.

 

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Yes I understand that. But sometimes after they have had there ass kicked, we will hopefully see a better performance and work rate.

assuming, that an bum kicking will suffice....I suspect some significant changes will occur.

I hope we manage the game a lot better against Arsenal and don't just go gung ho and leave ourselves exposed.....slowly, slowly catch a monkey.

[GrassyNoel]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

We are all clinging to it being a freak occurence, but too many similar situations have happened in the past, not exactly the same but similar.....with probably different players and formations.

I am not blaming Dean Smith for the subs, but I am questioning the overall mentality and application to the last 15-20 minutes.

I have no idea on the fitness or out of gas possibilities, so I assume that was ok.

The sad thing for me is....I couldn't see us doing it to them....They swamped us and we stood for it like " The three card trick"......It was immature and wimp like.

I have not changed my opinion of the season, probably where we finished last season, I see no improvement on that, depending what happens in the Jan Window....and if we carry on with the win one, lose one syndrome, 50- 55 points is about where we will finish.

 

It was amateurish and small-time. It was a dreadful advert for us as a club. It felt like many, many steps backward. It annoyingly further vindicated Joe's decision to leave, and I really hate it for that.

Of course all teams lose, but the manner of it still makes we feel queasy four days later.

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, GrassyNoel said:

It was amateurish and small-time. It was a dreadful advert for us as a club. It felt like many, many steps backward. It annoyingly further vindicated Joe's decision to leave, and I really hate it for that.

Of course all teams lose, but the manner of it still makes we feel queasy four days later.

I am not trying to be cruel or kicking a dog when he's down.....but despite some cracking wins, I feel we have that in us.

was I surprised by the result....sure I was.....was I surprised by our play leading to it.....No. sadly no.

I hope more than anything, that when we venture in to the next few windows.....we remember, that surrender and the ones before it and it is reflective, in the sort of character, we need to add to the squad.

We need some natural Leaders.

[nick76]

19 hours ago, villabromsgrove said:

I've just had a three way call with two of my sons and I was impressed by some of the chat about where Villa currently are.

Whatever our individual feelings are about how Villa and Smith are performing, we've been discussing the fact that we (the supporters) aren't the people that matter.

NSWE took over Villa with a business plan for where they wanted to take AVFC. Look at the current stats .... Are they impressed with progress right now?

Ignore the stats of the last three years in terms of the future (tomorrow onwards). Smith has done well to get us to where we are, but are there concrete signs that this season's targets are going to be met?

Edens and Sawiris are not prepared to stand still. It isn't in their business plan.

Can anyone tell me what Smith's formation and plan is going forward? How will we be playing next week, next month, after Christmas?

We can hope Dean comes up with the right answers, but does anyone really believe that we will become a consistent team this season? We can speculate but we just don't know, will our owners settle for the uncertainty?

I mentioned Edens before Sawiris earlier and I did this because of Edens incisive and ruthless joint owner style with the Bucks. NSWE have a plan and it's not about love, loyalty and cosiness. It's about progress.

If the answer up until now has been only about buying a couple of better players each transfer window, then do we think they will now ignore the ultimate potential of the man in charge of the team?

I've asked a number of questions after a good long chat with my sons, I would love to hear what you guys think.

After TRO responded a good read I thought I would come and give my opinion.

I think NSWE will be impressed with progression.  I think even taking in the investment, we still have gone from bottom of championship to promoted, avoided relegation, then moved from 35 points to 55 points which is a big increase.  So that's from a football results perspective.  From a squad perspective, I genuinely look around the squad and we have had quality recruitment (yes this a range of people doing this including Smith, so credit all around), I think Smith and his coaching team get credit by improving almost all the players in the squad.  On the whole I think the majority of players have improved under Smith's tenure.  NSWE have business backgrounds and will want success but know that it takes time and when reviewing the detail will want continual improvement and progression over sustained periods.  I think that can be seen.

Your question about whether they are impressed with progress right now, there are positives and negatives which is to be expected.  

Smith has done well to get us to where we are and I think there are concrete signs of progression for this season.  We dont know the target for the season so it's hard to fully answer this and that's a big problem because Villa fans have a big variance of what they believe the target is for this season.  Let's assume our aim is Europe but it seemed a lot of Villa fans thought we'd be between 9-12th this season.  I think we'll hit 9th-12th this season because despite injuries, preseason issues and internationals we are still picking up results and still in the mix.  I said at the beginning of the season that the squad isnt good enough for an European place and I believe that is still the case.

I think 2021 year has been slightly underwhelming as a Villa fan and I think there are mitigating circumstances for that along with not good reasons.  I think Covid knocked us off our rhythm and maybe had some more impact to our squad than just that.  We had a poor run but still picked up points and achieved 55 points which I believe is one of the highest point totals for god knows how long.  Usually this would easily attain us a top ten spot but strangely we got 11th.  Summer started well with purchases but ended up a bit of a mess with the sales of Jack and a covid hit preseason followed by injuries.  I think we then havent really started the season since because of the injuries, preseason and internationals and yes other teams have impacts but it really hit our attacking players from Buendia, Bailey, Watkins, Traore and Sanson.  With that in mind, with those coming back, I think there should be real optimism for the second half of the season once Smith fully has those options and they are match fit. 

The concern like others is that I think we have a slightly soft middle of the park sometimes.  I worry our defenders are going through a difficult spell and I dont know if that is just having a spell or it's the 3 at the back.  I believe Smith was only doing three at the back because of the issues at the attacking end mentioned above.  He's continued with it probably longer than I would like and I want 433 back but at least he knows the good and back of that formation.  I think his preferred formation is 433 going forwards to answer that question, but with a bigger squad he does want options and flexibility.  That's what all fans were saying on here last season that he wasnt flexible with his formations so it does seem hypocritical when Smith does try some different and fans complain.  I also think the opposition not knowing what we play can be a good thing and we shouldnt be very rigid and have one fixed formation and way of playing...top teams adapt.  I believe he'll have around 14 players that will be the core of his team and work around that.

Next question: Consistency:  seems to be the new word of the season for Villa fans...I think this is a distraction, midtable teams always have good and bad periods/games.  The top 4/5 teams consistently win, the bottom 4/5 consistently lose and the mid 10/12 are very inconsistent and the aim is to win more than you lose in that middle category for us.  The fact we went from 9 wins to 16 wins last season is a step in the right direction.

I agree Edens and Sawiris will be ruthless if needed but imo I think we are on track.  For me Smith isnt using any of his credit he's amassed to date yet and is just working into the season like even other top managers do.  I'm not comparing Smith to these managers but Fergie was well known for being far better in the second half of the season and Pep is somewhat similar, they started poorly last season.  I think once we get our players back I hope to see an upward trend.

I Smith will be judged on his own re the couple of transfer per transfer window question.  This for me is down to two points, can we get somebody whose going to do a better job over a sustained period (I dont think NSWE want disruption and managers that jump jobs a lot including the likes of Mourinho or Ancelotti) like a Klopp or Pep.  Given we arent even in that hemisphere yet it's not an option.  The second point is Smith himself, how he is doing against his targets? that will be down to what NSWE set and agree with him, which we dont know.  From my perspective he's doing well, I know others agree and disagree.

At the end of the day it's about expectations of the individual fan that creates the intense debate and how they view things.  Amazingly if but for 10 minutes, this conversation wouldnt be happening this week as we'd be 13 points from 8 games, I think 7th in the league and with some key players still to come back things would've looked a lot rosier.  I know that is not reality and we did lose and in a major way, and we do have a soft belly sometimes which causes this but I think Saturday was a one off in terms of the severity of the implosion.

I, obviously believe in Smith and dont think he's hit his ceiling yet and think he can takes us to much higher.  As soon as I dont feel like that then I'll change...

Edited October 20, 2021 by nick76

[nick76]

11 minutes ago, GrassyNoel said:

It was amateurish and small-time. It was a dreadful advert for us as a club. It felt like many, many steps backward. It annoyingly further vindicated Joe's decision to leave, and I really hate it for that.

Of course all teams lose, but the manner of it still makes we feel queasy four days later.

It was amateurish, it was a complete implosion and an embarrassment for us all and I'm still not over it.  I think the larger picture though has been completely blown out of proportion, even a couple hours later after the Brentford v Chelsea game, Gary Neville said some very positive things about us.  We feel the embarrassment but the wider community outside of the Villa bubble has moved on and it was just a great come back by Wolves with Villa giving away some cheap goals, I dont think it was a long term advert for Villa and certainly not a valid reason for Grealish to leave (which is a whole different conversation).  We feel it more because it happened to us but to the wider football community it's not seen as the end of the world for Villa type thing.

I hope the players feel queasy and use it to batter Arsenal on Friday.  Us fans have hurt the most but the in context of the bigger picture I think it has been overblown.

[GrassyNoel]

23 minutes ago, nick76 said:

It was amateurish, it was a complete implosion and an embarrassment for us all and I'm still not over it.  I think the larger picture though has been completely blown out of proportion, even a couple hours later after the Brentford v Chelsea game, Gary Neville said some very positive things about us.  We feel the embarrassment but the wider community outside of the Villa bubble has moved on and it was just a great come back by Wolves with Villa giving away some cheap goals, I dont think it was a long term advert for Villa and certainly not a valid reason for Grealish to leave (which is a whole different conversation).  We feel it more because it happened to us but to the wider football community it's not seen as the end of the world for Villa type thing.

I hope the players feel queasy and use it to batter Arsenal on Friday.  Us fans have hurt the most but the in context of the bigger picture I think it has been overblown.

You're right - it's a lot of petulance on my part. I'll get over it.

Thanks - I needed that.

[villabromsgrove]

25 minutes ago, nick76 said:

After TRO responded a good read I thought I would come and give my opinion.

I think NSWE will be impressed with progression.  I think even taking in the investment, we still have gone from bottom of championship to promoted, avoided relegation, then moved from 35 points to 55 points which a big increase.  So that's from a football results perspective.  From a squad perspective, I genuinely look around the squad and we have had quality recruitment (yes this a range of people doing this including Smith, so credit all around), I think Smith and his coaching team get credit by improving almost all players in the squad.  On the whole I think the majority of players have improved under Smith's tenure.  NSWE have business backgrounds and will want success but know that takes time and when reviewing the detail will want to continual improvement and progression over sustained periods.  I think that can be seen.

Your question about whether they are impressed with progress right now, there are positives and negatives which it to be expected.  

Smith has done well to get us to where we are and I think there are concrete signs of progression for this season.  We dont know the target for the season so it's hard to fully answer this and that's a big problem because Villa fans have a big variance of what they believe the target is for this season.  Let's assume our aim is Europe but it seemed a lot of Villa fans thought we'd be between 9-12th this season.  I think we'll hit 9th or 12th this season because despite injuries, preseason issues and internationals we are still picking up results and still in the mix.  I said at the beginning of the season that the squad isnt good enough for an European place and I believe that is still the case.

I think 2021 year has been slightly underwhelming as a Villa fan and I think there are mitigating circumstances for that along with not good reasons.  I think Covid knocked us off our rhythm and maybe had some more impact to our squad than just that.  We had a poor run but still picked up points and achieved 55 points which I believe is one of the highest point totals for god knows how long.  Usually this would easily attain us a top ten spot but strangely we got 11th.  Summer started well with purchases but ended up a bit of a mess with the sales of Jack and a covid hit preseason followed by injuries.  I think we then havent really started the season because of the injuries, preseason and internationals and yes other teams have impacts but it really hit our attacking players from Buendia, Bailey, Watkins, Traore and Sanson.  With that in mind with those coming back I think there should be real optimism for the second half of the season once Smith fully has those options and they are match fit. 

The concern like others is that I think we have a slightly soft middle of the park sometimes.  I worry our defenders are going through a difficult spell and I dont know if that is just having a spell or it's the 3 at the back.  I believe Smith was only doing three at the back because of the issues at the attacking end mentioned above.  He's continued with it probably like than I would like and I want 433 back but at least he knows the good and back of that formation.  I think his preferred formation is 433 going forwards to answer that question but with a bigger squad he does want options and flexibility and that's what all fans were saying on here last season that he wasnt flexible with his formations so it does seem hypocritical when Smith does try some different.  I also think the opposition not knowing what we play can be a good thing and we shouldnt be very rigid and have one fixed formation and way of playing, top teams adapt.  I believe he'll have around 14 players that will be the core of his team and work around that.

Next question: Consistency:  seems to be the new word of the season for Villa fans...I think this is a distraction, midtable teams always have good and bad periods/games.  The top 4/5 teams consistently win, the bottom 4/5 consistently lose and the mid 10/12 are very inconsistent and the aim is to win more than you lose.  The fact we went from 9 wins to 16 wins last season is a step in the right direction.

I agree Edens and Sawiris will be ruthless if needed but imo I think we are on track.  For me Smith isnt using any of his credit to date yet and is just working into the season like even other managers do.  I'm not comparing Smith to these managers but Fergie was well known for being far better in the second half of the season and Pep is somewhat similar, they started poorly last season.  I think once we get our players back I hope to see upward trend.

I Smith will be judged on his own re the couple of transfer per transfer window.  This for me is down to two points, can we get somebody whose going to do a better job over a sustained period (I dont think NSWE want disruption and managers that jump jobs a lot including the likes of Mourinho or Ancelotti) like a Klopp or Pep.  Given we arent even in that hemisphere yet it's not an option.  The second point is Smith himself, how he is doing against his targets? that will be down to what NSWE set and agree with him, which we dont know.  From my perspective he's doing well, I know others agree and disagree.

At the end of the day it's about expectations of the individual fan that creates the intense debate and how they view things.  Amazingly if but for 10 minutes, this conversation wouldnt be happening this week as we'd be 13 points from 8 games, I think 7th in the league with some key players still to come back and things would've looked a lot rosier.  I know that is not reality and we did lose and in a major way, and we do have a soft belly sometimes which causes this but I think Saturday was a one off in terms of the severity of the implosion.

I, obviously believe in Smith and dont think he's hit his ceiling yet and think he can takes us to much higher.  As soon as I dont feel like that then I'll change...

This is a good thoughtful and balanced post Nick.

I would love to know what NSWE are thinking right now as we can only speculate, but I guess the next few months will give us some clues.

Villa are a big club and Dean has a big job to do.

` 

[GrassyNoel]

16 minutes ago, nick76 said:

The Newcastle thing is interesting because we obviously know they wont get the big players initially if they do decide to go that buy everything route, which I dont know how they can with FFP and how the elite clubs will fight that.  If they do go for the big players, the big players will most likely turn them down because they can get the same deal from the elite clubs anyway for example we already know Mbappe has his heart on Real Madrid.  So if newcastle go down the buying big, they will first have to buy second elite level players, hot prospects or fading stars.  The thing that has interested in the short time since the take over the feed has been dampened a lot....talks of Eddie Howe taking over and now the rumour is Fonseca who while building a reputation really doesnt wow me considering the excitement of the Newcastle takeover...I know Spurs wanted him but just seems an anti-climax.  There was also a lot of rumours that the transfer kitty for January would be smaller to start off with...more around the 50m rather than the 150m thought there would be.  This could be just downing the prices that are likely to come from selling clubs but is interesting.  Would seem they want to build something rather than buy the league and things may not move as quickly as Newcastle fans would like.  Also interesting to see what the PL does and how the elite teams block them if they do go on a spending spree.  I dont think Newcastle will be competing for Europe this season or next though for us to be worried about, there is too much to do there.

Exactly. Having the money is one thing, being able to spend it is another. They'll be in shape long term, but short term needs solid steps, much like we've shown. Howe or Potter would be great for them I'd say.

[nick76]

11 minutes ago, GrassyNoel said:

You're right - it's a lot of petulance on my part. I'll get over it.

Thanks - I needed that.

No dont think you are being petulant!  This hurt really bad and walking away from Villa Park I was furious and I think I've calmed down probably about 20% since then.  I think it's like being embarrassed in any situation in life always feel more like the spotlight on them than what everybody else is thinking or feeling about the embarrassed person.  I think if you didnt feel your way and I didnt feel my way it almost would be that we didnt care as much about Villa as we know we do.  I think this site rightly went into meltdown following the game, I think it's just then about perspective afterwards after a bit of time about the bigger picture and why I tried to not go as overboard as many did when we beat Man Utd.

 

Edited October 20, 2021 by nick76

[Woody1000]

It’s nice to see this thread finding some ‘middle ground’.

Im sure Dean will have the boys up for it on Friday night, if nothing more I think the players owe us a performance, and a 90+ minute one at that!

[Peter Griffin]

18 minutes ago, nick76 said:

After TRO responded a good read I thought I would come and give my opinion.

I think NSWE will be impressed with progression.  I think even taking in the investment, we still have gone from bottom of championship to promoted, avoided relegation, then moved from 35 points to 55 points which a big increase.  So that's from a football results perspective.  From a squad perspective, I genuinely look around the squad and we have had quality recruitment (yes this a range of people doing this including Smith, so credit all around), I think Smith and his coaching team get credit by improving almost all players in the squad.  On the whole I think the majority of players have improved under Smith's tenure.  NSWE have business backgrounds and will want success but know that takes time and when reviewing the detail will want to continual improvement and progression over sustained periods.  I think that can be seen.

Your question about whether they are impressed with progress right now, there are positives and negatives which it to be expected.  

Smith has done well to get us to where we are and I think there are concrete signs of progression for this season.  We dont know the target for the season so it's hard to fully answer this and that's a big problem because Villa fans have a big variance of what they believe the target is for this season.  Let's assume our aim is Europe but it seemed a lot of Villa fans thought we'd be between 9-12th this season.  I think we'll hit 9th or 12th this season because despite injuries, preseason issues and internationals we are still picking up results and still in the mix.  I said at the beginning of the season that the squad isnt good enough for an European place and I believe that is still the case.

I think 2021 year has been slightly underwhelming as a Villa fan and I think there are mitigating circumstances for that along with not good reasons.  I think Covid knocked us off our rhythm and maybe had some more impact to our squad than just that.  We had a poor run but still picked up points and achieved 55 points which I believe is one of the highest point totals for god knows how long.  Usually this would easily attain us a top ten spot but strangely we got 11th.  Summer started well with purchases but ended up a bit of a mess with the sales of Jack and a covid hit preseason followed by injuries.  I think we then havent really started the season because of the injuries, preseason and internationals and yes other teams have impacts but it really hit our attacking players from Buendia, Bailey, Watkins, Traore and Sanson.  With that in mind with those coming back I think there should be real optimism for the second half of the season once Smith fully has those options and they are match fit. 

The concern like others is that I think we have a slightly soft middle of the park sometimes.  I worry our defenders are going through a difficult spell and I dont know if that is just having a spell or it's the 3 at the back.  I believe Smith was only doing three at the back because of the issues at the attacking end mentioned above.  He's continued with it probably like than I would like and I want 433 back but at least he knows the good and back of that formation.  I think his preferred formation is 433 going forwards to answer that question but with a bigger squad he does want options and flexibility and that's what all fans were saying on here last season that he wasnt flexible with his formations so it does seem hypocritical when Smith does try some different.  I also think the opposition not knowing what we play can be a good thing and we shouldnt be very rigid and have one fixed formation and way of playing, top teams adapt.  I believe he'll have around 14 players that will be the core of his team and work around that.

Next question: Consistency:  seems to be the new word of the season for Villa fans...I think this is a distraction, midtable teams always have good and bad periods/games.  The top 4/5 teams consistently win, the bottom 4/5 consistently lose and the mid 10/12 are very inconsistent and the aim is to win more than you lose.  The fact we went from 9 wins to 16 wins last season is a step in the right direction.

I agree Edens and Sawiris will be ruthless if needed but imo I think we are on track.  For me Smith isnt using any of his credit to date yet and is just working into the season like even other managers do.  I'm not comparing Smith to these managers but Fergie was well known for being far better in the second half of the season and Pep is somewhat similar, they started poorly last season.  I think once we get our players back I hope to see upward trend.

I Smith will be judged on his own re the couple of transfer per transfer window.  This for me is down to two points, can we get somebody whose going to do a better job over a sustained period (I dont think NSWE want disruption and managers that jump jobs a lot including the likes of Mourinho or Ancelotti) like a Klopp or Pep.  Given we arent even in that hemisphere yet it's not an option.  The second point is Smith himself, how he is doing against his targets? that will be down to what NSWE set and agree with him, which we dont know.  From my perspective he's doing well, I know others agree and disagree.

At the end of the day it's about expectations of the individual fan that creates the intense debate and how they view things.  Amazingly if but for 10 minutes, this conversation wouldnt be happening this week as we'd be 13 points from 8 games, I think 7th in the league with some key players still to come back and things would've looked a lot rosier.  I know that is not reality and we did lose and in a major way, and we do have a soft belly sometimes which causes this but I think Saturday was a one off in terms of the severity of the implosion.

I, obviously believe in Smith and dont think he's hit his ceiling yet and think he can takes us to much higher.  As soon as I dont feel like that then I'll change...

It is good to see people posting sensible posts and putting some effort into them, they make for better reading. I agree with a lot of what you have written but not everything. As regards NSWE and their view on progress, they are without question happy. As you say, promotion and survival followed by consolidation. AVFC is obviously worth a lot more than when they purchased it so they are seeing a return on their investment. As regards their expectations, We may not know the finer detail but it is clear that they want Europe and not just Europa, they want Champions League. I would also believe they want continuous improvement each year. I don't believe they will be happy with another 11th place finish this season. Mitigating factors may sound good but good management anticipates risk and should be able to overcome risks and not use mitigating factors as an excuse for non delivery. That may sound hard but that is the reality at a certain level in business. There are some things outside of our control e.g. Covid closing things down but a disrupted pre season is just an excuse. We should have had alternative games arranged or whatever is necessary to ensure we were ready to start the league on match day 1. 

Although Smith has delivered in years 1,2 and 3 they are now over and we are into year 4. Yes well done Deano and credit where credit is due but it is now a new season and he will be judged on this season and not past successes. I believe we need to be pushing for Europa this season (I think Ings signing shows this) and we currently do not look like we are. The soft underbelly and the inconsistency should be eliminated by year 4 and this is a poor reflection of Deano. He must fix this. I agree we should play 433 and u say that u believe it is his preferred system but we are 8 games in and persisting with 5 at the back. Furthermore, we are not adapting to the teams we are up against. I agree we should not be rigid with our formation but we are. We wouldn't play anything but 433 last season and this season we play 5 at the back against everyone. I think this is another poor reflection of Deano and something he must address. I also believe we have the squad today to be able to play 433 and that is taking injuries into account.

This is a huge season for Deano personally. If it is successful I would expect he will be offered a nice new contract with a decent pay rise. If it is not successful I expect he will be given 10 to 15 games of next season to show improvement or he will be replaced. I like Deano, he is a very good fit for Villa and I would love to see him as our manager for the next 10 years. Will he be a success at Villa:? I really don't know. I am very nervous that he is starting to show signs that he may have reached his ceiling. So far this season we have had 1 good game against Chelsea and 20 minutes against Everton. The rest has been fairly forgettable and doesn't really show a team that is playing with a definite style of football and following a clear plan for breaking into the top half.

[nick76]

3 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

It is good to see people posting sensible posts and putting some effort into them, they make for better reading. I agree with a lot of what you have written but not everything. As regards NSWE and their view on progress, they are without question happy. As you say, promotion and survival followed by consolidation. AVFC is obviously worth a lot more than when they purchased it so they are seeing a return on their investment. As regards their expectations, We may not know the finer detail but it is clear that they want Europe and not just Europa, they want Champions League. I would also believe they want continuous improvement each year. I don't believe they will be happy with another 11th place finish this season. Mitigating factors may sound good but good management anticipates risk and should be able to overcome risks and not use mitigating factors as an excuse for non delivery. That may sound hard but that is the reality at a certain level in business. There are some things outside of our control e.g. Covid closing things down but a disrupted pre season is just an excuse. We should have had alternative games arranged or whatever is necessary to ensure we were ready to start the league on match day 1. 

Although Smith has delivered in years 1,2 and 3 they are now over and we are into year 4. Yes well done Deano and credit where credit is due but it is now a new season and he will be judged on this season and not past successes. I believe we need to be pushing for Europa this season (I think Ings signing shows this) and we currently do not look like we are. The soft underbelly and the inconsistency should be eliminated by year 4 and this is a poor reflection of Deano. He must fix this. I agree we should play 433 and u say that u believe it is his preferred system but we are 8 games in and persisting with 5 at the back. Furthermore, we are not adapting to the teams we are up against. I agree we should not be rigid with our formation but we are. We wouldn't play anything but 433 last season and this season we play 5 at the back against everyone. I think this is another poor reflection of Deano and something he must address. I also believe we have the squad today to be able to play 433 and that is taking injuries into account.

This is a huge season for Deano personally. If it is successful I would expect he will be offered a nice new contract with a decent pay rise. If it is not successful I expect he will be given 10 to 15 games of next season to show improvement or he will be replaced. I like Deano, he is a very good fit for Villa and I would love to see him as our manager for the next 10 years. Will he be a success at Villa:? I really don't know. I am very nervous that he is starting to show signs that he may have reached his ceiling. So far this season we have had 1 good game against Chelsea and 20 minutes against Everton. The rest has been fairly forgettable and doesn't really show a team that is playing with a definite style of football and following a clear plan for breaking into the top half.

Good post. 

We obviously have different views and see certain situations differently to you especially the middle paragraph but I respect your view point. 

I agree with the first part of the third paragraph but I guess we slightly differ on what successful might mean in that context. 

This will certainly be an interesting 12-18 months at Villa

[Tommo_b]

1 hour ago, nick76 said:

It was amateurish, it was a complete implosion and an embarrassment for us all and I'm still not over it.  I think the larger picture though has been completely blown out of proportion, even a couple hours later after the Brentford v Chelsea game, Gary Neville said some very positive things about us.  We feel the embarrassment but the wider community outside of the Villa bubble has moved on and it was just a great come back by Wolves with Villa giving away some cheap goals, I dont think it was a long term advert for Villa and certainly not a valid reason for Grealish to leave (which is a whole different conversation).  We feel it more because it happened to us but to the wider football community it's not seen as the end of the world for Villa type thing.

I hope the players feel queasy and use it to batter Arsenal on Friday.  Us fans have hurt the most but the in context of the bigger picture I think it has been overblown.

Agree, way overblown. It’s football, it literally can happen to the best teams on any given day against the crappest teams, sometimes you just cannot account for a change in the tide.

If they don’t score that first goal they don’t suddenly find that extra energy and getting to the second ball first. 

Momentum is just as powerful as talent sometimes, check out Leicesters title winning side. 

[Risso]

A big game for Smith on Friday. Lose, and the fairly poor, just over a point a game run in the calendar year will keep going, and we’ll be firmly mired in lower mid table. How much longer the owners will put up with that I’m not so sure. Possibly based on nothing, but it looks to me like Smith is feeling the pressure slightly. He seemed much more ill at ease than normal in the pre-match press conference last week, and was going mental in the dug out on Saturday.

[DCJonah]

2 minutes ago, Risso said:

A big game for Smith on Friday. Lose, and the fairly poor, just over a point a game run in the calendar year will keep going, and we’ll be firmly mired in lower mid table. How much longer the owners will put up with that I’m not so sure. Possibly based on nothing, but it looks to me like Smith is feeling the pressure slightly. He seemed much more ill at ease than normal in the pre-match press conference last week, and was going mental in the dug out on Saturday.

I'm not convinced he's under pressure this season, unless the season starts to turn into a disaster. 

I think next year is the one where a bad start or really poor spell at the beginning of the year could be where the owners will act. 

I just can't see them doing something that drastic 3rd year back, in the season we've lost Jack. 

 

[Tomaszk]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

you can't in the main, it comes from the culture of your environment, it comes from standards, it comes from what is accpeted and what isn't, its a mood that is ubiquitous and felt almost unconciously.

Its setting the tone.

The reality of Dean Smith's management is very different from the perception some will insist on every time we lose a game.

If it's culture you want, there couldn't be a more perfect manager...