Dean Smith

[One For The Road]

47 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

To all the Smith defenders

LEAGUE POSITION IS GOOD ENOUGH!!!

RECENT FORM IS NOT!!!

That's why you look at the bigger picture!! How hard is it to understand??

[One For The Road]

49 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Sorry i must have missed the post i have had a few notifications today!

To answer your question 11th is a acceptable finish for me - but my major concerns is the form of the last 10 games. This alarms me with or without grealish. If grealish git injured for the first 10 games we might be in the bottom 4 at this stage if you look at the last 10 games form.

I think anything below 14th would have been a major failure.

Im still disappointed we didnt finish top 10 and very unhappy we have finished below leeds (cant see us beating spurs ir chelseA)

Thank you for answering.

Do you think we would have finished below Leeds if our star player had played an extra 4 or 5 games out of the 13 he missed?

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, One For The Road said:

That's why you look at the bigger picture!! How hard is it to understand??

It's not. But you can't stick to an agenda unless you select specific things to suit it.

[One For The Road]

Just now, DCJonah said:

It's not. But you can't stick to an agenda unless you select specific things to suit it.

Yeah it's a logical fallacy called circular reasoning. It's also called cherry picking and confirmation bias. 

 

[Demitri_C]

1 minute ago, One For The Road said:

Thank you for answering.

Do you think we would have finished below Leeds if our star player had played an extra 4 or 5 games out of the 13 he missed?

Good question. 

I think yes its a possibility that we could have. But im sure wolves would have said the same had they had Jimenez.

I dont expect miracles but i wanted to see more consistency in jacks absence but we havent. That concerns me especially with jacks injury record.

[One For The Road]

Just now, Demitri_C said:

Good question. 

I think yes its a possibility that we could have. But im sure wolves would have said the same had they had Jimenez.

I dont expect miracles but i wanted to see more consistency in jacks absence but we havent. That concerns me especially with jacks injury record.

That's as maybe but Jiminez isn't even on the same planet as Jack. Let's not use that false equivalence. 

Everything we do goes through Grealish, the same can't be said for a striker. No doubt they missed him but Jack is so so so vital to everything we do.

It's been a great season and a huge improvement on last year. 

Hopefully we can get a few points from the last 2 games and our performances against the big 6 this season suggests it's possible.

 

[DCJonah]

8 minutes ago, One For The Road said:

Thank you for answering.

Do you think we would have finished below Leeds if our star player had played an extra 4 or 5 games out of the 13 he missed?

Or what if Phillips or Bamford had missed a 3rd of the season.

[Demitri_C]

1 minute ago, One For The Road said:

That's as maybe but Jiminez isn't even on the same planet as Jack. Let's not use that false equivalence. 

Everything we do goes through Grealish, the same can't be said for a striker. No doubt they missed him but Jack is so so so vital to everything we do.

It's been a great season and a huge improvement on last year. 

Hopefully we can get a few points from the last 2 games and our performances against the big 6 this season suggests it's possible.

 

You say that but jimenez is as crucial to wolves as jack is to us. They look nowhere near as bad a goal threat without him now.

I hope so mate anout your last paragraph.  No one wi praise smith more than me if he bwats either one hopefully spurs

[Tumblerseven]

Just now, Demitri_C said:

You say that but jimenez is as crucial to wolves as jack is to us. They look nowhere near as bad a goal threat without him now.

I hope so mate anout your last paragraph.  No one wi praise smith more than me if he bwats either one hopefully spurs

What praise smith? No chance mate  10 bad games.

[VillanousOne]

Appreciating where we've come from, where we were the first half of the season and the improvements overall.

It's still hard to stomach the form and losses over the last 12 games. Obviously some teams are going to be better than us, or better than us over 90 mins, but like today we have rolled over and been completely f*cked a number of times.

Edited May 16, 2021 by VillanousOne

[Mark Albrighton]

Villa without Grealish, is it 13 points from 14 games? Or 13 from a possible 42 if you prefer. I’m including the last two games as he’s not properly back yet*. Not a great return, I don’t think anyone is saying otherwise.

But 13 points from 14 works out to be just over 35 points over the course of a season which is what we had last year. So is it fair to say results wise we’re roughly as good without Grealish this season as we were last season with him?

It’s not massive leaps and bounds, but it seems like an improvement of sorts to me.

*if you want to discount the last two matches as he appeared, it’s a point a game.

[foreveryoung]

2 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

Appreciating where we've come from, where we were the first half and the season and the improvements overall.

It's still hard to stomach the form and losses over the last 12 games.

Exactly where I am mate. No agenda, no Smith out, just disappointed with our form and the way we have lost the games. Most losses have come from, not being out fought, just playing poorly.

[KenjiOgiwara]

This thread just baffles me cause I'm fairly pleased with our season. I thought we'd end up some where around 15th place so dead midtable is fantastic for me.

Obviously we could have done better the second half of the season, regardless or covid and Jack being injured. But we could also have lost a lot more the first half of the season.

I think we got a very good place to build from now and I think our football is attacking and fun to watch most of the time. Not to mention the youths coming through look the business.

I'm not new to the post match bitching from the usual suspects on here, but them to that. 

It's been a while since we finish our season and I feel we are a settled solid Premier League team, but we are. All aces in my book considering we were conceding 5 against Forest 3 years ago. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by KenjiOgiwara

[thabucks]

For what it’s worth my position is that I don’t necessarily want him to go but if he were to go down a different route I wouldn’t be too disappointed dependent on the chosen successor. I support AVFC not the manager.
 

I see the same mistakes week after week, the same uninspiring subs, the stubbornness. I also see a man willing to learn, who loves the club dearly and has taken us to where we all wanted to be when he was appointed. So get both sides of the argument 

[It's Your Round]

I haven’t read through the last god knows how many pages (Jesus, why would anyone put themselves through that!), but my stance is that Smith gets another season to see where he can take us. He’s got enough credit in the bank to have earned that chance. Not because he’s a Villa fan, that’s immaterial in the grand scheme of things, but because we’ve improved each season he’s been here.
 

He’ll get money to spend again this summer, the players will be selected by a team of people still relatively new to the club, and he’ll be given a target to achieve by NSWE and Purslow (not by the fans). I’m fairly confident that he’ll get the chop if we look to be seriously underachieving the target by the midpoint of next season. NSWE strike me as the type that can be ruthless when it’s required. But until then, Smith is going nowhere, we’re about to finish higher than we’ve finished in 9 or 10 years. They’re trying to build sustained success, which takes time. Yes it’s frustrating to see us play so poorly, but on the whole, this season has been one of the most enjoyable in recent memory. 
 

Expectations from the owners and us are going to be high for next season, rightly so. I hope Smith can work it out and push us on. If he can’t and he goes, then I hope it will be at the right time and for the right reasons. 

[troon_villan]

3 minutes ago, It's Your Round said:

I haven’t read through the last god knows how many pages (Jesus, why would anyone put themselves through that!), but my stance is that Smith gets another season to see where he can take us. He’s got enough credit in the bank to have earned that chance. Not because he’s a Villa fan, that’s immaterial in the grand scheme of things, but because we’ve improved each season he’s been here.
 

He’ll get money to spend again this summer, the players will be selected by a team of people still relatively new to the club, and he’ll be given a target to achieve by NSWE and Purslow (not by the fans). I’m fairly confident that he’ll get the chop if we look to be seriously underachieving the target by the midpoint of next season. NSWE strike me as the type that can be ruthless when it’s required. But until then, Smith is going nowhere, we’re about to finish higher than we’ve finished in 9 or 10 years. They’re trying to build sustained success, which takes time. Yes it’s frustrating to see us play so poorly, but on the whole, this season has been one of the most enjoyable in recent memory. 
 

Expectations from the owners and us are going to be high for next season, rightly so. I hope Smith can work it out and push us on. If he can’t and he goes, then I hope it will be at the right time and for the right reasons. 

Popped into this thread to post pretty much word for word what you have said.  For the money we have spent and will spend this summer Deano has one more season to improve on this season. 

We all saw in the first few months what this team can do so to anyone who thinks this season has been an overall success, you are entitled to your opinion but you are wrong.

[VillaFaninLondon]

3 hours ago, DCJonah said:

But this is the life of a midtable team. We get good and bad unexpected results. 

You're right, our squad has players capable of beating sheff u. But then on the flipside Liverpool, Leicester and Everton should be saying the same when they lose to us. 

Consistency will improve as squad depth does. 

Yes, I accept we've won games against teams better than us on paper but there have been an awful lot of games where the result was disappointing:

• Villa 1-2 Brighton
• Villa 0-0 Burnley 
• Burnley 3-2 Villa
• Villa 0-3 Leeds
• Sheff U 1-0 Villa
• Newcastle 1-1 Villa (also bear in mind Newcastle had no Almiron, Saint Maximin or Wilson for that game)
• Villa 2-2 Albion 
• Brighton 0-0 Villa (actually the point wasn't the bad thing, it was the woeful performance and being completely outplayed)
• Palace 3-2 Villa

 

People go on and say Smith wouldn't get as much criticism if we were on the same amount of points but had been more consistent throughout the season, well of course he wouldn't but it misses the point. The fact is we started really well and were averaging 2 points a game, outperforming expectations. He was rightly praised by most of us (myself included) for doing a fantastic job and winning 8 of our first 14 games.

 

Since January 1st, we have won 6 games out of 22. That is the stat which tells the whole story - it is not good enough. We have also lost 11 of those games which over the course of a season would be 19 defeats - again, nowhere near good enough. Taken over the course of a season would I have been happy with 49 points from 36 games? Of course - I even said at the start of this season our aim should be to finish in the high 40s in terms of points and anything better than that is a great season. But the goalposts were moved I'm afraid after the great start we had. I'm sure most of us wouldn't be on his back if our form had dipped slightly but stayed competitive - e.g. instead of taking 23 points from 22 games in 2021, he'd taken 30. But it's the fact that over a long period of time (4 months) our form is barely more than 1 point per game. 

 

Another reason why Smith deserves the criticism coming his way is he appears to be making the same mistakes over and over again. Why do we play so well in the 1st half of games and then play really poorly in the 2nd half? What is Smith saying at half time to make them come out in the second half so lacklustre? Games where we have been much better first half than second half:

• Man U (h)
• Liverpool (a)
• Everton (a) - we actually won this fortunately but our first half performance was much better than our second
• Burnley (a)
• Wolves (h)
• West Ham (h)
• Palace (a)
• Brighton (a) - we were poor in both halves in all honesty but even worse in the 2nd and very lucky not to lose
• Southampton (a) - again, we won the game but we were dire in the 2nd half and again very lucky to take 3 points

 

It's all well and good saying Smith deserves the right to keep managing us - in terms of where he has taken us from and the fact we have improved year on year I can see that argument. But this is not a reaction to a bad run of a few games - this form goes back a long way now and there has been very little sign of it ending.

Edited May 16, 2021 by VillaFaninLondon

[VillaFaninLondon]

1 hour ago, One For The Road said:

That's as maybe but Jiminez isn't even on the same planet as Jack. Let's not use that false equivalence. 

Everything we do goes through Grealish, the same can't be said for a striker. No doubt they missed him but Jack is so so so vital to everything we do.

It's been a great season and a huge improvement on last year. 

Hopefully we can get a few points from the last 2 games and our performances against the big 6 this season suggests it's possible.

 

I'm sorry but that's simply not true. Jimenez is a HUGE player for Wolves, they are 10 times the team with him in it.

[DCJonah]

7 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

Yes, I accept we've won games against teams better than us on paper but there have been an awful lot of games where the result was disappointing:

• Villa 1-2 Brighton
• Villa 0-0 Burnley 
• Burnley 3-2 Villa
• Villa 0-3 Leeds
• Sheff U 1-0 Villa
• Newcastle 1-1 Villa (also bear in mind Newcastle had no Almiron, Saint Maximin or Wilson for that game)
• Villa 2-2 Albion 
• Brighton 0-0 Villa (actually the point wasn't the bad thing, it was the woeful performance and being completely outplayed)
• Palace 3-2 Villa

 

People go on and say Smith wouldn't get as much criticism if we were on the same amount of points but had been more consistent throughout the season, well of course he wouldn't but it misses the point. The fact is we started really well and were averaging 2 points a game, outperforming expectations. He was rightly praised by most of us (myself included) for doing a fantastic job and winning 8 of our first 14 games.

 

Since January 1st, we have won 6 games out of 22. That is the stat which tells the whole story - it is not good enough. We have also lost 11 of those games which over the course of a season would be 19 defeats - again, nowhere near good enough. Taken over the course of a season would I have been happy with 49 points from 36 games? Of course - I even said at the start of this season our aim should be to finish in the high 40s in terms of points and anything better than that is a great season. But the goalposts were moved I'm afraid after the great start we had. I'm sure most of us wouldn't be on his back if our form had dipped slightly but stayed competitive - e.g. instead of taking 23 points from 22 games in 2021, he'd taken 30. But it's the fact that over a long period of time (4 months) our form is barely more than 1 point per game. 

 

Another reason why Smith deserves the criticism coming his way is he appears to be making the same mistakes over and over again. Why do we play so well in the 1st half of games and then play really poorly in the 2nd half? What is Smith saying at half time to make them come out in the second half so lacklustre? Games where we have been much better first half than second half:

• Man U (h)
• Liverpool (a)
• Everton (a) - we actually won this fortunately but our first half performance was much better than our second
• Burnley (a)
• Wolves (h)
• West Ham (h)
• Palace (a)
• Brighton (a) - we were poor in both halves in all honesty but even worse in the 2nd and very lucky not to lose
• Southampton (a) - again, we won the game but we were dire in the 2nd half and again very lucky to take 3 points

 

It's all well and good saying Smith deserves the right to keep managing us - in terms of where he has taken us from and the fact we have improved year on year I can see that argument. But this is not a reaction to a bad run of a few games - this form goes back a long way now and there has been very little sign of it ending.

But you've moved the goal posts. That's your choice but to then use it to criticise the man seems very strange. 

[AntrimBlack]

Smith missed a chance to bring on Chukuemeka in lieu of Wesley.

Would have given the lad a little boost.