hippo Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 2 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said: No it would be the changes we've seen culminating with our promotion. We've moved on from this revolving door of hoofball managers and quick fixes. Now we've gotta accept things will take time to get right. Garde, Sherwood, houllier , rdm - wouldn't say they are hoofball managers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, PieFacE said: Putting all the blame for this season on Smith just makes absolutely no sense to me. With all the surrounding circumstances we've had, i'm not even sure I'd sack him even if we do go down. IMO, if Wesley and Heaton didn't get injured we'd be a few points better off. Idea growing on me he stays to be honest. I wanted to see some sort of performances at the end of the season and we've got them. The team isn't good enough and we're probably going to finish 19th. We're competing with established PL sides who have PL squads plenty of whom would be our top earners. I want Smith replaced if we stay up, but unless there's an outstanding candidate there's no point replacing him. Only realistic name I'm up for at the moment is Gerhard Struber if we go down. No interest at all in Hughton/Lee Johnson?! They are the names we'll be dealing with. Edited July 17, 2020 by Tomaszk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, hippo said: Dean smith is one of our own and a very nice bloke - he got us promoted in his first season - which was some achievement. I think some people want to stick with Smith because sacking him isn't a nice thing to do and is a way of punishing Dean Smith However I just don't think he quite has it at this level, its all speculative but I don't see us starting next season that well under Smith - the goals against column has never been his strong point at any club he has managed and that will continue to weigh against us so long as he stays in post - in the championship we might score enough so its not so much of an issue - but in the PL closing out tight games is an essential skill - we clearly don't have it nor do we look like acquiring it anytime soon. I believe he has to go at the end of the season - and think he will. I think if Smith had better players we wouldn't of been sitting where we are now to be honest. You look at us when we bring two players on from subs bench one of which offered nothing and we went totally weak on that side he was playing. Davis as well only offered sparks of play, we have not the subs to make game winning changes happening. The starting eleven played amazing each and every one of them and I thought they should of been left to see out the game not bring subs on to unsettle the team which it did do. No point blaming Smith for the draw as it was a good performance, we just got unlucky at the end. Now his coaching or if he had a hand in signing players like Ghazi who make us worse when they are on the field. I do think that Smith has found a strong first eleven that play well together ( well out of the players we have anyway). If anything it is those eleven that will see us survive. Then the problem arises of what players do we bring on that could possibly change a game, Davis and Ghazi can not and we keep bloody playing them, in fact we go the opposite way every time and become worse. It is about time that we play some others instead of those two did t we have Youths on the bench against Everton. We should of brought on some Youth if we had them available for up front, again Vasilev should of definitely been considered and used. As it stands Ghazi was just a passenger in that game as was Samatta, for all we know we could have some youth who will go and light the pitch up. Vasilev more than impressed better than Ghazi and Trez when he played earlier in the season and it's driving me bonkers Smith is using the same two subs he's been using all this time. I also thought our best option for a sub was to bring a complete new player on that Everton would of knew nothing about. We had those guys on the bench that could of brought abit of randomness for us and completely messed Everton up and finished them off. Remember when we go play these team they know to go watch tapes of Davis and Ghazi because that's all Smith uses, cant use that much footage of Vasilev can you now as we could of popped him in up front, the lad has a good energy supply, he's good at mixing it up a d he deserves a chance if others are not fulfilling there roles and Samatta and Ghazi are not. Do not know what Smith is playing at with the youth, all this BullTalk about they will get there chance was a load of rubbish, even when its a clear and obvious reasob to use they do not get there go at first team. Tell you what I'll be even more angrier if Smith goes and subs Ghazi on next game after his poor display, that should be it as far as I'm concerned and unless he earns it should be at the back of the line as others deserve a run now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratvillan Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Tomaszk said: I want Smith replaced if we stay up, but unless there's an outstanding candidate there's no point replacing him. This is it for me. If there's a better manager replace him, if not keep him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 That we've shown that we can perform in the last few games and also did so earlier in the season, makes one win in fourteen all the more inexcusable. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Tomaszk said: Idea growing on me he stays to be honest. I wanted to see some sort of performances at the end of the season and we've got them. The team isn't good enough and we're probably going to finish 19th. We're competing with established PL sides who have PL squads plenty of whom would be our top earners. I want Smith replaced if we stay up, but unless there's an outstanding candidate there's no point replacing him. Only realistic name I'm interested in at the moment is Gerhard Struber if we go down. No interest at all in Hughton/Lee Johnson?! They are the names we'll be dealing with. OK - look at the likely exit list:- Mings, Grealish, Luiz, - possibles Mcginn, Targett, Heaton Theres enough talent there to keep a few clean sheets now and again - you can make a case for the forwards - but he has the players to construct a PL defence. Thats his weakness and it wont change. Giving him another season in a division where those weaknesses are not so exposed would be a mistake IMO. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, useless said: That we've shown that we can perform in the last few games and also did so earlier in the season, makes one win in fourteen all the more inexcusable. Yup its fine margins in the PL - a cruel loss in the last 5 minutes is still a loss.....I don't see a fix in sight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 28 minutes ago, hippo said: Dean smith is one of our own and a very nice bloke - he got us promoted in his first season - which was some achievement. I think some people want to stick with Smith because sacking him isn't a nice thing to do and is a way of punishing Dean Smith However I just don't think he quite has it at this level, its all speculative but I don't see us starting next season that well under Smith - the goals against column has never been his strong point at any club he has managed and that will continue to weigh against us so long as he stays in post - in the championship we might score enough so its not so much of an issue - but in the PL closing out tight games is an essential skill - we clearly don't have it nor do we look like acquiring it anytime soon. I believe he has to go at the end of the season - and think he will. I think he is a decent, young manager in his first major job. To an extent he is a victim of his own success. He got us promoted against expectations and then had a mountain to climb keeping us in the premier league. Given the amount of players we had to replace for the funds available it was inevitable there would be some duds. If he had not been promoted last season, and we were on the cusp of promotion now, people would be singing his praises. As it is, he is a pariah to some. I would absolutely give him next season in the championship. At least the first half of it. We have to stop chopping and changing managers, we need to learn the lessons from this season, strengthen and move forward. I still think Smith should be given that chance. Patience is required. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, hippo said: OK - look at the likely exit list:- Mings, Grealish, Luiz, - possibles Mcginn, Targett, Heaton Theres enough talent there to keep a few clean sheets now and again - you can make a case for the forwards - but he has the players to construct a PL defence. Thats his weakness and it wont change. Giving him another season in a division where those weaknesses are not so exposed would be a mistake IMO. Only Grealish and Luiz will leave of those IMO. No one is paying the price we ask for any of the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 1 minute ago, TheStagMan said: I think he is a decent, young manager in his first major job. To an extent he is a victim of his own success. He got us promoted against expectations and then had a mountain to climb keeping us in the premier league. Given the amount of players we had to replace for the funds available it was inevitable there would be some duds. If he had not been promoted last season, and we were on the cusp of promotion now, people would be singing his praises. As it is, he is a pariah to some. I would absolutely give him next season in the championship. At least the first half of it. We have to stop chopping and changing managers, we need to learn the lessons from this season, strengthen and move forward. I still think Smith should be given that chance. Patience is required. I am sure if we are the cusp of promotion this time next season he will be a hero once more - are you that confident things would be different if/when DS gets another crack at the premier league ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Tomaszk said: Only Grealish and Luiz will leave of those IMO. No one is paying the price we ask for any of the others. I think Mings will go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, hippo said: I think Mings will go. We'll be asking at least £30m. Can't see anyone paying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AV82 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 I hope we stick with Smith unless we find someone of Rafa's ilk. I'm very confident without the injuries we sustained we'd have stayed up comfortably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasterpocket68 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 10 minutes ago, TheStagMan said: I think he is a decent, young manager in his first major job. To an extent he is a victim of his own success. He got us promoted against expectations and then had a mountain to climb keeping us in the premier league. Given the amount of players we had to replace for the funds available it was inevitable there would be some duds. If he had not been promoted last season, and we were on the cusp of promotion now, people would be singing his praises. As it is, he is a pariah to some. I would absolutely give him next season in the championship. At least the first half of it. We have to stop chopping and changing managers, we need to learn the lessons from this season, strengthen and move forward. I still think Smith should be given that chance. Patience is required. Yes he got us promoted, that was fantastic , Ive seen enough in this squad in the last few games to suggest we were good enough to survive had there been a better strategy from the manager. The demise of the club is so bad now we accept this and move on with Smith still at the helm! For me no, the owners now need to step up to the plate and review the footballing structure at the club! Money will get any manager , its time to find out how serious the owners are. Project Smith has failed no matter how you look at it - Patience ! ok wait for him to balls up the first 10 games in the championship with more dross signings then act .He has to go at the end of the season and it high time we then start to act like the big club we continue to talk about! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Whether we like Smith or not, let's face it, if our owners really want to raise us to the dizzy heights of top six in the PL, which should be our target, Smith will never take us there. The team is not great, by any means, but the fact that they can occasionally play like last night for which Smith is being applauded, is actually an indictment on his management for the many poor performances during the season which have left us where we are. He really must go or we will be treading water. And the scouting needs a close examination before any more money is wasted. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 50 minutes ago, Dave-R said: Everyone fans giving praise to our players. Saying how sorry they are for robbing a win from us and that they hope we stay up. It's a real nice thing from there fans show realise that there team hadn't a dog in it till the end. The Toffee fans said we out played them at every turn pretty much, I'd agree apart from crosses, we so need to sort that out, it's a big problem. A nice Gesture and good sporting behaviour from there fans it's appreciated. We must of played recently which I thought up until Ghazi came on we were absolutely solid and could of seen out the game. I don’t think I’ve ever felt any animosity towards an Everton team over the years, even successful Everton teams. A proper football club with real values and proper fans I’ve been to Goodison a few times, a great old ground with real atmospher. Perhaps it helps that we’ve generally done well . A great club. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: I don’t think I’ve ever felt any animosity towards an Everton team over the years, even successful Everton teams. A proper football club with real values and proper fans I’ve been to Goodison a few times, a great old ground with real atmospher. Perhaps it helps that we’ve generally done well . A great club. It looked abit claustrophobic in there tunnel though, but looks like a good ground. Yeah the fans seem much better at everton than alot of other clubs, nice to see a fan base admitting where they are going wrong and giving applauseto other teams players. I'd very much like us to be playing Everton again next season. The worst fans I've read from so far are Newcastle's which surprised me to be honest. Edited July 17, 2020 by Dave-R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 30 minutes ago, hippo said: I am sure if we are the cusp of promotion this time next season he will be a hero once more - are you that confident things would be different if/when DS gets another crack at the premier league ? Yes, I actually am. I think with a chance to replace the players who are poor and strengthen the squad so we have options, and a year of learning together and developing a team under less pressure I think we would make a much better stab at it next time around. I genuinely think that we were promoted too soon, given the mess the club was 18 months or so ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 19 minutes ago, Blasterpocket68 said: Yes he got us promoted, that was fantastic , Ive seen enough in this squad in the last few games to suggest we were good enough to survive had there been a better strategy from the manager. The demise of the club is so bad now we accept this and move on with Smith still at the helm! For me no, the owners now need to step up to the plate and review the footballing structure at the club! Money will get any manager , its time to find out how serious the owners are. Project Smith has failed no matter how you look at it - Patience ! ok wait for him to balls up the first 10 games in the championship with more dross signings then act .He has to go at the end of the season and it high time we then start to act like the big club we continue to talk about! Acting like that is what has led to the long slow decline we have experienced over the last 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reivax_Villa Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) Our team showed some spirit against Everton last night. Dean Smith did well to prepare us for yesterday’s game but it was not enough. We do not have time or resources to help develop a manager that we appointed in 2018. We have conceded 66 goals so far this season and conceded the 2nd highest amount of goals in the championship last season. Granted he took charge on the 10th of October but we conceded 5 goals against Nottingham Forest and lost 0-3 against Wigan. His tactics have been poor and his bark has not been bigger than his bite for recruiting the players that he wanted. We need to become ruthless towards under achieving players and management. I find it funny that people use Southampton not sacking manager Ralph Hasenhüttl as an example. He is a top level tactician and coach that was considered as a coup. Southampton are still a premier league club because they tend to hire top quality managers Pochettino, Koeman and any other manager that under performs is sacked. Purslow should have sacked Dean Smith before the winter transfer window but instead he offered him a long term contract. Keeping Dean Smith at this club after we are relegated is small club mentality. With the amount of resources and finances put into this club we should have a process in place after this season has finished in terms sporting director and a manager that can improve the squad drastically. I am also against the narrative that Dean Smith is an attacking coach because the stats would prove otherwise. Edited July 17, 2020 by Reivax_Villa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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