The Fun Factory Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 17 hours ago, sharkyvilla said: Burnley have reaped the reward of sticking with Dyche even after he got them relegated. It would then be odd to not give Smith the same opportunity. Yes but we have much higher (unrealistic?) expectations at Villa. You would think that having a local boy returning to support his team he has supported his whole life coming to manage it and within 18 months getting said club promoted and to a major cup final would be a decent result , along with dealing with rebuilding the entire side, but obviously not. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 35 minutes ago, Robtaylor200 said: I dont think that is clear to every one from our club that the problem isn't tactics or coaching. Sticking with Wes for so long, playing Jack on the wing cant defend a corner, this is tactics and coaching . This is the argument that we dont all agree on. But I do agree you could beat a moped in your M1, there again my mates M1 is always breaking down Who was the alternative to Wesley? Kodjia didnt seem to care and Davis was injured As for Jack his best form has been since he moved more wide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 22 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: Yes but we have much higher (unrealistic?) expectations at Villa. You would think that having a local boy returning to support his team he has supported his whole life coming to manage it and within 18 months getting said club promoted and to a major cup final would be a decent result , along with dealing with rebuilding the entire side, but obviously not. Burnley are now an establish Premier League outfit. We have no divine right to think that we are better than Burnley these days, we’re a newly promoted team. If we finish 17th, we’ve had a great season with us getting to a cup final too 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robtaylor200 Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 7 minutes ago, Zatman said: Who was the alternative to Wesley? Kodjia didnt seem to care and Davis was injured As for Jack his best form has been since he moved more wide Agree about Kodja he really didn't seem to give a scooby, but Davis wasn't injured every game that Wes played in and failed to be involved and not only I thought that one of England's best midfielders played better in the middle than as a winger, I lost count of how many commentators were saying the same . This goes back to my first post. That It is not clear to everyone in our club felt that the tactics and coaching was not a problem. If all the VT members got together we wouldn't pick the same team, we wouldn't play the same tactics and we would all have different ways of motivating our team, Which is why we all have conflicting views of what is wrong . This is why some one is paid to Manage. The league position, goals for, goals against and all the other statistics are without feelings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holteend1982 Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 1 hour ago, The Fun Factory said: Yes but we have much higher (unrealistic?) expectations at Villa. You would think that having a local boy returning to support his team he has supported his whole life coming to manage it and within 18 months getting said club promoted and to a major cup final would be a decent result , along with dealing with rebuilding the entire side, but obviously not. He's done a decent job but most of the performances this season have been awful. I can only think of 4 games where I thought we played well and got something, Everton (H) Norwich (A) Man U (A) Burnley (A) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, holteend1982 said: He's done a decent job but most of the performances this season have been awful. I can only think of 4 games where I thought we played well and got something, Everton (H) Norwich (A) Man U (A) Burnley (A) Spurs away, although we lost? Edited April 27, 2020 by sir_gary_cahill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 We played very well for an hour at Arsenal so I'd rate that above Spurs personally although we were good at Spurs first half. We've shown promise in patches but we simply don't have that ability to grind out draws and wins when we come under serious pressure against decent attacking sides. To me Spurs at home is the one game this season that has summed us up. Came out positive and played well first half but still went in losing. Then showed spirit to get back to 2-2. Then lost in comical fashion with last kick of the game, the sort relegated teams do lose. Hopefully we can become more streetwise in the next 12 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 7 hours ago, The Fun Factory said: Yes but we have much higher (unrealistic?) expectations at Villa. You would think that having a local boy returning to support his team he has supported his whole life coming to manage it and within 18 months getting said club promoted and to a major cup final would be a decent result , along with dealing with rebuilding the entire side, but obviously not. I don't think thats right. I think over the last 10 years has proved that, many fans in the Premier League would have been pulling their hair out, if they had been through what we have....it wasn't so long ago we won 3 games all season, that was a level this club should never have witnessed, it was gross mismanagement of a scale beyond acceptability. I think on the contrary, we are quite laid back in general, when it comes to driving for the top prizes or getting the better players....I think we are quite easily pleased on the whole. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 5 hours ago, VillaChris said: We played very well for an hour at Arsenal so I'd rate that above Spurs personally although we were good at Spurs first half. We've shown promise in patches but we simply don't have that ability to grind out draws and wins when we come under serious pressure against decent attacking sides. To me Spurs at home is the one game this season that has summed us up. Came out positive and played well first half but still went in losing. Then showed spirit to get back to 2-2. Then lost in comical fashion with last kick of the game, the sort relegated teams do lose. Hopefully we can become more streetwise in the next 12 months. Apologies for labouring the point, but we need a Midfield General to turn those defeats in to results. We need a leader in the Middle to orchestrate things and galvanise the team....a player they all look up to with character and drive. its been a while since we have had one, and it shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 8 hours ago, holteend1982 said: He's done a decent job but most of the performances this season have been awful. I can only think of 4 games where I thought we played well and got something, Everton (H) Norwich (A) Man U (A) Burnley (A) Thats 3 away games and 1 at home, where you thought we played well, not arguing, but.....when most fans feel our best chances of survival are at home, there is not many good games is there? I do also find it difficult to reconcile most performances have been awful, not arguing again......but he's done a decent job. I'm genuinely not sure, what kind of job he has done. I can see the cup run is a fine job, but the league, is a different matter.I still don't see that he has brought on any of the younger players in terms of development, Which bothers me....not expecting them to be the finished article, just a spark of improvemnt, and i haven't seen it. I would have said 15th was a decent season, 19th is not, despite the challenges of so many new players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 Overall we are not too bad in terms of keeping the ball and attacking but by god are we hopeless at the back.Take the 2 Spurs games and Arsenal we were decent and matched them for the most part but we took zero points and conceded 9 goals. Twice against 10 men we have ended up conceding ..its just a mess .Mings and Engels have I believe 7 individual errors against them so thats on them not management but the conceding at corners its hopeless setting up of the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Nabby said: Overall we are not too bad in terms of keeping the ball and attacking but by god are we hopeless at the back.Take the 2 Spurs games and Arsenal we were decent and matched them for the most part but we took zero points and conceded 9 goals. Twice against 10 men we have ended up conceding ..its just a mess .Mings and Engels have I believe 7 individual errors against them so thats on them not management but the conceding at corners its hopeless setting up of the team. I think keeping the ball is an issue and we lose it too often and in dangerous situations....it allows the opposition to launch raids of which you are right, we are poor at dealing with. Individual errors are a major source of frustration, but if we have so many, its starts to beg questions......is it down to the we play? That forces players in to these errors...are they left too exposed, are we overloading some areas and underloading other areas? Or are they poor in quality. At the end of the day, its down to the manager, thats where the buck stops.....if a player has too many errors particularly unforced.....he has to replace him. Managers are responsible, they have to be.....whether that is fair or not. Edited April 27, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holteend1982 Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 6 minutes ago, TRO said: Thats 3 away games and 1 at home, where you thought we played well, not arguing, but.....when most fans feel our best chances of survival are at home, there is not many good games is there? I do also find it difficult to reconcile most performances have been awful, not arguing again......but he's done a decent job. I'm genuinely not sure, what kind of job he has done. I can see the cup run is a fine job, but the league, is a different matter.I still don't see that he has brought on any of the younger players in terms of development, Which bothers me....not expecting them to be the finished article, just a spark of improvemnt, and i haven't seen it. I would have said 15th was a decent season, 19th is not, despite the challenges of so many new players. I say decent because he got us the promotion which at one point looked to be completely out of the question and we are still somehow within touching distance of staying up, along with the cup final. Compare that to our last few managers achievements then overall its not bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, holteend1982 said: I say decent because he got us the promotion which at one point looked to be completely out of the question and we are still somehow within touching distance of staying up, along with the cup final. Compare that to our last few managers achievements then overall its not bad. I think if he keeps us up on the back of the things you mention.....I will see your point. as you can tell, I have mixed views. I want to see him bring players on.....Don't get me wrong, I love silverware, but I think we need to get the basics right first. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 (edited) We've actually been quite decent at grinding out wins in the games at home we've needed to win. At start of season we'd have looked at games like Norwich and Watford at home as six pointers and we won both even if we were incredibly lucky v Norwich. Brighton could also fall into that category. And Newcastle. Since that Watford game we've only actually played one home game in the league. That's just how the fixture list goes. I did think we'd be better at grinding out draws on the road with the space Grealish would get on the counter attack. Ultimately we just haven't been good on the road defensively and conceded too many cheap goals. Edited April 27, 2020 by VillaChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, VillaChris said: We've actually been quite decent at grinding out wins in the games at home we've needed to win. At start of season we'd have looked at games like Norwich and Watford at home as six pointers and we won both even if we were incredibly lucky v Norwich. Brighton could also fall into that category. And Newcastle. Since that Watford game we've only actually played one home game in the league. That's just how the fixture list goes. I did think we'd be better at grinding out draws on the road with the space Grealish would get on the counter attack. Ultimately we just haven't been good on the road defensively and conceded too many cheap goals. I am not trying to be argumentative Chris, because I agree with most of your views.....but I don't think we are a grinding out team at all, its one of my issues with the team...without McGinn, we have no ball winner or enforcer to turn the ball over,( not saying McGinn is a dedicated enforcer) we just rely on opposition mistakes to intercept, as opposed to bullying/powering them off the ball. We rely very much on moments in a game, moments of decent quality, followed by periods of low grade quality.....We just manage to score goals in those good moments, we are just not difficult to beat, too easy to score against and you have to have a element of resillience to survive in this league. I think Dean has tried to emulate, what he has done in the lower divisions, but it has a limited effect in this league. It is customary for managers to call on their bits of success, of the past, but Dean hasn't needed to focus on the opposition in those leagues, he has just focused on his own team, out scoring opponents.....Unless you have world class players, that doesn't work in this league, you have to make teams scrap for what they get,(particularly when you first come up), we don't we are too benevolent.....and the unfolding of this season does not surprise me, one bit. Chris Wilder, was far more aware of this and subsequently geared the team up to tackle it. I am not even saying he is a better manager than Dean, what I am saying IMO He was far more aware of the choppy waters ahead. Daniel Farke has pretty much followed on from last season, where they just out footballed teams.....this league is a different proposition......i.e Norwich are a fine team, if you let them be.....and we can be too, if we are equally allowed. We have struggled against teams this season arguably not better than us offensively, but our inefficiences in defending the ball have conspired against us. I am not trying to be harsh, when I say, we are where we are, because we got it wrong, by underestimating what was required.....we thought we could just go out playing champagne football lead by arguably one of the best midfielders around, maybe an easy trap to fall in to, under the circumstances. I hope like others Dean learns from this season, but I have heard nothing from him that suggests he has, or he hasn't for that matter. I guess, if we stay up, I will see what players he signs, that will indicate to me in some way what he has learned. We can of course still stay, up.....but I would not change my view to date at all. Edited April 28, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 The lack of experience thing is non sense. We tried that after Lambert got sacked with the likes of Richardson, Lescott, Richards etc Surprise surprise they didn't make us any better. This is yet another excuse to protect Smith. We just need good players. Age is irrelevant 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 (edited) 20 hours ago, villalad21 said: The lack of experience thing is non sense. We tried that after Lambert got sacked with the likes of Richardson, Lescott, Richards etc Surprise surprise they didn't make us any better. This is yet another excuse to protect Smith. We just need good players. Age is irrelevant We need good players and the right players......square pegs and square holes, etc I agree with you, its not just experience and that could also apply to the manager....its about doing the right things and more importantly signing the right players and galvanising them in to one unit, that play for each other. Edited April 29, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 21 hours ago, villalad21 said: The lack of experience thing is non sense. We tried that after Lambert got sacked with the likes of Richardson, Lescott, Richards etc Surprise surprise they didn't make us any better. This is yet another excuse to protect Smith. We just need good players. Age is irrelevant I don't think the lack experience is a non issue, I think it's one of many issues. Not least Smith's lack of experience. Experience isn't irrelevant, neither is age, ability, drive, tactics, and a thousand other things. The fact that our hastily slapped together squad has little to no PL lever or similar experience was clearly visible this season, just like our lack of leaders on the pitch. Going into the season only Heaton and a few fringe players like Elmo and Taylor had and serious top level experience. El Ghazi coming from AJAX and Lille also had big club experience. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screwdriver Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 12 minutes ago, sne said: our hastily slapped together squad The fact Smith didn't use the winter break for a team building week is staggaring. Especially given the bournemouth match (last one before the break) was such an on the beach performance. I've just watched the interview with Smith after that game. He blamed the ball boys and then said "no slide it is an isolated result and we would come back stronger. the players have got some time off now to rest" If you switch off you have to switch on again. A real manager would have tore paint off the walls cancelled everyones leave and hastily organised a trip to stirling lines. Or some remote highland location where the players would be forced to live off the land. Waking up to the news Poch is on Newcastles radar is the final straw. he should have been hired at half time at vicarage road back at xmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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