VillaChris Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 16 hours ago, Zatman said: He hasnt played a game since November through injury and only 20 games for Galatasaray. he has only had 1 season in Europe as a regular starter which was in the Belgian league which isnt impressive for a guy in his mid 20s Think we need to be targeting someone coming up to 30 personally at the back, Ron Vlaar or Chester type. We have enough youth at the back (even Mings is pretty inexperienced at this level let's be honest). A Laursen type player who can't get into a major european side would be a godsend. Would help us a bit more on set pieces aswell considering we've got worse defending them as the season has gone on. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 19 minutes ago, VillaChris said: Think we need to be targeting someone coming up to 30 personally at the back, Ron Vlaar or Chester type. We have enough youth at the back (even Mings is pretty inexperienced at this level let's be honest). A Laursen type player who can't get into a major european side would be a godsend. Would help us a bit more on set pieces aswell considering we've got worse defending them as the season has gone on. I think you are right but we have spent a lot of money on our defence. At the start of the season, we defended magnificently not so good in the middle, good in the weeks leading up to the CoronaVirus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: I think you are right but we have spent a lot of money on our defence. At the start of the season, we defended magnificently not so good in the middle, good in the weeks leading up to the CoronaVirus 22 goals conceded since middle of January, 9 games. Mings coming back did help in the short term but we've slipped into bad habits again, ironically since we've ditched the back 3. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 10 minutes ago, VillaChris said: 22 goals conceded since middle of January, 9 games. Mings coming back did help in the short term but we've slipped into bad habits again, ironically since we've ditched the back 3. Thanks for the stats, in the couple of weeks leading up to the CoronaVirus, I thought we looked better defensively, ironically when we had Mings and Engels as our first choice centre backs. I thought we defended well against Man City in the final, although we lost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 3 hours ago, VillaChris said: 22 goals conceded since middle of January, 9 games. Mings coming back did help in the short term but we've slipped into bad habits again, ironically since we've ditched the back 3. I said before our defence is fine, its midfield in front. No surprise more than one journalist has praised Nakamba as he has been severely isolated. Even worse since McGinn got injured 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted April 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted April 9, 2020 21 hours ago, sir_gary_cahill said: I can’t argue with any of that but I think we would struggle to sign anyone better than Mings or Engels currently, do you agree? No matter how much money we throw at it Well that's where the scouting comes in doesn't it? Let's say Engels was just slightly more confident and assured, made half the mistakes he'd made this season, had half a yard more pace. If he were fractionally better in a few areas, then he'd be that player right? We were close, but spending a little more and spreading the net a bit wider would help us get that player. With nearly all our signings from the summer, I can totally see the logic and to be honest they are all very very nearly there. Our problem is the fine margins and too many are slightly off where we needed. Could have gone the other way. Fine lines. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted April 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted April 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Zatman said: I said before our defence is fine, its midfield in front. No surprise more than one journalist has praised Nakamba as he has been severely isolated. Even worse since McGinn got injured I think it's wide where the holes are really and it puts a massive strain on the rest of the shape. Imagine a young Milner wide or similar on both flanks it woudl transform us in both phases. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 16 hours ago, romavillan said: Well that's where the scouting comes in doesn't it? Let's say Engels was just slightly more confident and assured, made half the mistakes he'd made this season, had half a yard more pace. If he were fractionally better in a few areas, then he'd be that player right? We were close, but spending a little more and spreading the net a bit wider would help us get that player. With nearly all our signings from the summer, I can totally see the logic and to be honest they are all very very nearly there. Our problem is the fine margins and too many are slightly off where we needed. Could have gone the other way. Fine lines. I think you are correct and you phrased it well, Engels started the season so well, he and Mings looked like world beaters. Hopefully, they can get back to that form when the season restarts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 On 08/04/2020 at 21:47, sir_gary_cahill said: Do you think Smith is a top class manager or has the potential to be? Not at the moment No. He has to display a grip on all aspects of the game, not just offensive play.....Dean has not displayed that at Walsall or Brentford and we are still waiting at Villa.....so I can't answer the question, without speaking to him.....Potential is difficult, I guess we need to see incrememtal improvement in key area's to be able to comment on that.....at present we may still struggle to go up automatically, if we was in the championship. Dean is still a WIP manager imo and has much work to do to be even considered " Top Class"......I hope he manages to do it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, TRO said: Not at the moment No. He has to display a grip on all aspects of the game, not just offensive play.....Dean has not displayed that at Walsall or Brentford and we are still waiting at Villa.....so I can't answer the question, without speaking to him.....Potential is difficult, I guess we need to see incrememtal improvement in key area's to be able to comment on that.....at present we may still struggle to go up automatically, if we was in the championship. Dean is still a WIP manager imo and has much work to do to be even considered " Top Class"......I hope he manages to do it. I think he’s the best manager we’ve had since MON, he came in last season and miraculously got us promoted and now we’re in with a chance of staying up this season. We are a work in progress team, yes, no denying but the potential is massive, that’s why he got a new contract. He was a centre back himself, he’ll sort us out at the back, we have good enough players to stay up in my opinion Edited April 10, 2020 by sir_gary_cahill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 On 08/04/2020 at 22:02, Dave-R said: Ok so it we still had Traore in our current circumstances, do you think he'd become what he is now TRO or do you think he'd of slipped away under our noses as he did before. Would Smith and co got right right with Traore or would they of messed up as well because i think that the important question that if we can answer should decide whether Smith really is to be kept around or not. Can Smith and co identify talent like Traore, work with them and keep those type of players supplying the goods for along time?? Good Question Dave....I really don't know. I suspect Nuno is far in advance of Dean......The burning question is, Can Dean personally progress, beyond what he is, and if so how long is that likely to take......i.e how long do we wait. Personally, I see a certain attribute in a players make-up, that Dean doesn't seem to know how to get it out of them.....but that is just my opinion of course. I am basing my judgement on many managers of ours of the past, who made players better, in front of my very eyes......I don't see a lot of evidence of that ,yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: I think he’s the best manager we’ve had since MON, he came in last season and miraculously got us promoted and now we’re in with a chance of staying up this season. We are a work in progress team, yes, no denying but the potential is massive, that’s why he got a new contract. He was a centre back himself, he’ll sort us out at the back, we have good enough players to stay up in my opinion says as much about who we have had, as it does about him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 On 09/04/2020 at 12:05, Adam2003 said: This is an interesting point and a part of TV money I hadn’t really considered. Makes it harder to bully ‘smaller’ clubs out of their players... that said as I said in the other thread we have only signed ten players since NRC in 2008 for more than what we paid for him - so really it’s that our spending is on average a decade behind the rest of the League (thanks to three years in the Champ I guess). Small correction on Bent - Sunderland didn’t want to sell him but he himself was desperate to get out of the north east. But amounts to the same thing with your point on paying what they couldn’t say no to. I am only going by what he said in a recent interview on the 100 best strikers on sky.....He said he was happy there and he was scoring for fun, it was the board ( Niall Quinn) that wanted the money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) On 08/04/2020 at 21:40, TRO said: Not ignoring money Dave, but Traore is a part of that phenomenal forward line. we had no one who could see his potential, presumably.....He was just an express train, when he was with us, with no end game.....Its obvious middlesborough and then Wolves worked with him. i know Nuno is a top class manager, but that's what you get, when you have one. its this sort of stuff that bugs me... we just give him away, as good as. what do they do at BMH? Duplication error,Sorry. Edited April 10, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) On 09/04/2020 at 14:09, VillaChris said: He'd have been fine. Let's be honest El Ghazi and Trez are headless chickens for majority of games. AEG has the odd really good one now and then which shows his potential but then you don't see them the next week. He's played in the CL for Ajax so way more experienced at the top level than when Adama was with us. One of the reasons our record v top 6/7 teams has been so bad compared to everyone else is you need 2-3 quick counter attacking players to break on them. We had that in the MON days and so we won regularly away to likes of Arsenal and Liverpool. Aside from when Grealish is running with the ball we counter attack so slowly. Gana and Amavi from that time would be really good in this present set up imo aswell. you are right Chris among many things, not much pace, in key area's It causes teams to defend high up the pitch and secure the midfield....because we have little threat, that can't be dealt with. Edited April 10, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 1 hour ago, TRO said: I am only going by what he said in a recent interview on the 100 best strikers on sky.....He said he was happy there and he was scoring for fun, it was the board ( Niall Quinn) that wanted the money. Hmm odd one. I remember at the time he was desperate to get out of the north east as fans were racially abusing his mother (some in the stadium, some in town). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 I thought him and Steve Bruce had a fall out. Wonder if he'd signed here knowing Young and Downing would be leaving within six months. I suspect not as that blunted his game a fair bit although he was still scoring at a decent rate the next season before his injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 4 hours ago, Adam2003 said: Hmm odd one. I remember at the time he was desperate to get out of the north east as fans were racially abusing his mother (some in the stadium, some in town). why, would they do that to a prolific striker, for them.....he was a hero there. until he left to join us of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, TRO said: why, would they do that to a prolific striker, for them.....he was a hero there. until he left to join us of course. Are you looking for a more nuanced answer than “because the fans who did it are racist”? Edit: also if I remember correctly while there was some racism from Sunderland fans in the stadium, it was Newcastle fans who abused her in the street. Edited April 10, 2020 by Adam2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, Adam2003 said: Are you looking for a more nuanced answer than “because the fans who did it are racist”? Edit: also if I remember correctly while there was some racism from Sunderland fans in the stadium, it was Newcastle fans who abused her in the street. just seems strange, because an element like that exist at every club...but hey ho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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