Zatman Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 5 hours ago, villalad21 said: I find it sad how little trust we put in our U-23's Even if we only have 1 fit CB they still don't get a chance. Hutton higher in the pecking order as a CB than our youth. IMO it's a disgrace That was more to do with Bruce than Smith. Not that our youth defenders are pulling up trees on the loans 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvilla28 Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 You have to ask yourselve Smith really has learned much from the games at all.A ok start and then downhill.Tryed to change systems was desperate for me to stop the rot.By all means were not a top squad ,but we a not a relegation side even if you look at other teams in our boat there more system based,composed,organised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 13 hours ago, Zatman said: That was more to do with Bruce than Smith. Not that our youth defenders are pulling up trees on the loans O'Hare will get chances next season. See he was 22 yesterday so really it's make or break time for him here. Andre Green was starting games for us at start of 17-18 season and he'd only turned 19 the previous July. Jacob Ramsey was doing well at Donny so can see him getting chances in the cup. Considering Dominic Revan was making the bench at times last season I don't understand why he hasn't been loaned out. 19 now so I really hope he isn't in a long line of academy graduates we've kept too comfortable in the club set up and then loaned them out when it's a bit too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 1 minute ago, VillaChris said: O'Hare will get chances next season. See he was 22 yesterday so really it's make or break time for him here. Andre Green was starting games for us at start of 17-18 season and he'd only turned 19 the previous July. Jacob Ramsey was doing well at Donny so can see him getting chances in the cup. Considering Dominic Revan was making the bench at times last season I don't understand why he hasn't been loaned out. 19 now so I really hope he isn't in a long line of academy graduates we've kept too comfortable in the club set up and then loaned them out when it's a bit too late. I think Toner was the last youth defender to get a start and he is now playing amateur level in Ireland. Suleiman never got near the team despite his hype. Baker and Clark have had decent careers, same with Derrick Williams and maybe Donacien but the truth is we dont produce top centre backs. Most of the players that come from our youth team seem to be midfielders or forwards 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 19 minutes ago, Zatman said: I think Toner was the last youth defender to get a start and he is now playing amateur level in Ireland. Suleiman never got near the team despite his hype. Baker and Clark have had decent careers, same with Derrick Williams and maybe Donacien but the truth is we dont produce top centre backs. Most of the players that come from our youth team seem to be midfielders or forwards What about Gary Cahill? Suliman was very close to making it here, he played once for us in the cup, just because a player doesn’t make it here, doesn’t mean they won’t have very good careers. I think it shows how good a player has to be to make it here 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 22 hours ago, Tomaszk said: I've said this to @TRO as well, but if you think Sheffield Utd's football is basic you're very wrong. It's incredibly advanced and modern. Insulting to them to think that's basic football. Burnley's is pretty basic. Newcastle, don't even have a style, they don't do anything. Do I want to watch us do that? Absolutely not, no interest. Smith tries to do something expansive naively but doesn't have players who can do it. That's his problem that it looks like he can't sort out sadly. What did it do last year though? It got us 10 wins in a row and has led to sell outs every home game with 8,000 (!) people waiting to buy a season ticket. That's what attractive football can do if done right. How long have Utd been playing like that with the way they are playing?? It takes time and the right players to make football happen in a way that benefits a whole squad and club. Sheffield have kept on over the years playing there way and its paid off, it's taken a lot of players where some just didn't fit the bill. I think we are now at tbat point of relising we now have to find the right players to fit the style and we can clearly see there are a few bad apples that will need to be changed, the vision is there the tools are not all in place yet. There is a good chance that Smith if he keeps banging away at this that it could work out eventually and its down to us to keep that patience or we may as well find a new coach right now. I do think the football will be better next season, by how much though i do not know. We do however need to make sure that the players who are fielding Smith's image of football are better. IT's obvious that WE at the moment can not bring the vision to full reality, and will only see glimpses of it. We are limited in what we can do, some new fresh more skilful and better player a with stronger abilities, the right temperament and we may find ourselves in a totally better position that makes us look completely better. The whole question is if we stick with Smith will he learn fast enough if we stay a second season in the premier or is it going to take our lads a tough very long season down in the championship to finally gel and bring this style of play to life properly, ive a feeling the latter. Sometimes as much as I want Jack, John, Tyrone to stay, unless we're going to start throwing money at the team and fetch real quality in to mould around them, then we may as well sell them and we learn to play without big named stars in our side. I fear that is part of the problem at times that we somehow need to breath as a team on the pitch and we certainly can't do that when you have a couple taking all the glory. We have been seen as a one man army for to long and I'd like us to be seen as a squad, where even subs are affective on the day and it isn't just one player shining above the rest week in week out. If we get relegated, part of me will be heart broken for a time being. I think though that most of all a big part of me will see that we will have some money coming in from sales and that we can continue a rebuild with quality from the championship. With a bunch of the best and brightest players from the championship added to our existing squad, I think we could have enough time and be more than prepared to face the premier next time round. I don't like the thought of us going for more keepers or defenders at the moment, I still say it's in the middle and up front where we need reinforcing. Spending money wisely needs to be done more effective than what it was done. I can't say as it was bad, but a failure it was regardless because of our position. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 2 hours ago, sir_gary_cahill said: What about Gary Cahill? Suliman was very close to making it here, he played once for us in the cup, just because a player doesn’t make it here, doesn’t mean they won’t have very good careers. I think it shows how good a player has to be to make it here Or we've just been blind to the brilliant players we've let slip under us, all while letting the bad players have careers here instead of getting rid as early as possible. We have catered way to much to the bad players and failed to identify real amazing players. It says it all really as clubs who brought players of us for peanuts have ended up making us look like complete idiots and mostly amateurs at identifying fantastic talent, i hope to god we make no more mistakes like this. The one player I wished we of had still is the one player who now plays in the Wolves forward line, what a balls up that was letting him go., incompetence is what that is. A lot of players who we suddenly let go or the players who struggle to break into the first team, go on to become a fantastic bit of talent else where which really does say that we have been looking at things very wrongly at times does it not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, Dave-R said: The one player I wished we of had still is the one player who now plays in the Wolves forward line, what a balls up that was letting him go., incompetence is what that is. The one that refused to play a game for Villa? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 (edited) 23 hours ago, Zatman said: I think Toner was the last youth defender to get a start and he is now playing amateur level in Ireland. Suleiman never got near the team despite his hype. Baker and Clark have had decent careers, same with Derrick Williams and maybe Donacien but the truth is we dont produce top centre backs. Most of the players that come from our youth team seem to be midfielders or forwards I think that is a most significant point....and a crucial one. despite us developing Cahill....not much sign since, though. Edited May 4, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 (edited) 20 hours ago, Dave-R said: Or we've just been blind to the brilliant players we've let slip under us, all while letting the bad players have careers here instead of getting rid as early as possible. We have catered way to much to the bad players and failed to identify real amazing players. It says it all really as clubs who brought players of us for peanuts have ended up making us look like complete idiots and mostly amateurs at identifying fantastic talent, i hope to god we make no more mistakes like this. The one player I wished we of had still is the one player who now plays in the Wolves forward line, what a balls up that was letting him go., incompetence is what that is. A lot of players who we suddenly let go or the players who struggle to break into the first team, go on to become a fantastic bit of talent else where which really does say that we have been looking at things very wrongly at times does it not. I think you make a fair point Dave, I have long had dubious thoughts on some of the behind the scenes staff. It seems Mark Harrison comes with a strong CV......so we can only hope he builds a good staff around him. Personally, I would be pleased if we could groom a few players who can defend or have good defensive qualities about their game.....we do seem to breed lightweights. Edited May 4, 2020 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 (edited) On 03/05/2020 at 16:58, Dave-R said: How long have Utd been playing like that with the way they are playing?? It takes time and the right players to make football happen in a way that benefits a whole squad and club. Sheffield have kept on over the years playing there way and its paid off, it's taken a lot of players where some just didn't fit the bill. I think we are now at tbat point of relising we now have to find the right players to fit the style and we can clearly see there are a few bad apples that will need to be changed, the vision is there the tools are not all in place yet. There is a good chance that Smith if he keeps banging away at this that it could work out eventually and its down to us to keep that patience or we may as well find a new coach right now. I do think the football will be better next season, by how much though i do not know. We do however need to make sure that the players who are fielding Smith's image of football are better. IT's obvious that WE at the moment can not bring the vision to full reality, and will only see glimpses of it. We are limited in what we can do, some new fresh more skilful and better player a with stronger abilities, the right temperament and we may find ourselves in a totally better position that makes us look completely better. The whole question is if we stick with Smith will he learn fast enough if we stay a second season in the premier or is it going to take our lads a tough very long season down in the championship to finally gel and bring this style of play to life properly, ive a feeling the latter. Sometimes as much as I want Jack, John, Tyrone to stay, unless we're going to start throwing money at the team and fetch real quality in to mould around them, then we may as well sell them and we learn to play without big named stars in our side. I fear that is part of the problem at times that we somehow need to breath as a team on the pitch and we certainly can't do that when you have a couple taking all the glory. We have been seen as a one man army for to long and I'd like us to be seen as a squad, where even subs are affective on the day and it isn't just one player shining above the rest week in week out. If we get relegated, part of me will be heart broken for a time being. I think though that most of all a big part of me will see that we will have some money coming in from sales and that we can continue a rebuild with quality from the championship. With a bunch of the best and brightest players from the championship added to our existing squad, I think we could have enough time and be more than prepared to face the premier next time round. I don't like the thought of us going for more keepers or defenders at the moment, I still say it's in the middle and up front where we need reinforcing. Spending money wisely needs to be done more effective than what it was done. I can't say as it was bad, but a failure it was regardless because of our position. Good post Dave. I too, just want him create a more balanced team. I don't know how to say this, but Jack going, might gives us an opportunity for that balance, sounds crazy, but it just might work. Its all down to getting the signings right after his possible exit. In the past we have seen some great players go and feared the worst, but low and behold, managed our way through.....great players never did compensate for a good team, unless you have the wherewithal to sign loads of them. but like you, I would really miss Jack.....and relegation would really disappoint me. Edited May 5, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 4, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted May 4, 2020 On 03/05/2020 at 17:12, Dave-R said: The one player I wished we of had still is the one player who now plays in the Wolves forward line, what a balls up that was letting him go., incompetence is what that is. He was absolutely shit in a Villa shirt, didn’t want to play for us and refused to be on the bench. He can **** right off. And when he’s done **** off he can **** off again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurru991 Posted May 4, 2020 Visiting Supporter Share Posted May 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: He was absolutely shit in a Villa shirt, didn’t want to play for us and refused to be on the bench. He can **** right off. And when he’s done **** off he can **** off again Why was he shit ? And why is he so good at Wolves ? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 2 hours ago, Stevo985 said: He was absolutely shit in a Villa shirt, didn’t want to play for us and refused to be on the bench. He can **** right off. And when he’s done **** off he can **** off again He wasn’t ****! You could see he had a lot of potential when he played at Villa, he is showing it now at Wolves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, sir_gary_cahill said: He wasn’t ****! You could see he had a lot of potential when he played at Villa, he is showing it now at Wolves We don't know his circumstances while he was at Villa. We've had a lot of players been mistreated have we not or even given the boot2bench because of favertism. Sorry we've had players who clearly we're not good enough and its been known that as long as they were on the right side of the boss, well they got put in front, so the ones who had got talent were put on the bench or worse left to rot. Did it get that bad for some players, that the regimes in charge at the time just decided to move players on regardless of there potential??? We only have to look at how some players have come out with past story's from there time at clubs, then you wonder how dark could it actually of got at times when some were singled out before being moved on. I mean there are many reasons as to why a lot of really good talent slipped througj our fingers. It wasnt all because they didn't just work out at our club and I'd bet some has to do with incompetence, other is some of the above. Yes there most likely were those that just didn't work out, we will never know unless players tell there side of it truthfully. Ever wonder why our squads have been so lacking for a couple of decades?? Rich greedy gits leeching of the club from the top down, talent suffering because of it. I am shocked to this day that in the nearly twenty years it'd been happening that we didn't slump beyond the championship. It's about time we start to let the talent shine, as well as prioritise talent coming first at this club without letting it slip away in anyway because we couldn't highlight it and let it breath. I'm still unconvinced that our youth is being given a fair shot in our first team. This season had seen a few occasions where we seen youth come in and that was only because first teamers were injured. I wasn't happy to see that as soon as enough came back that Vasilev or Ramsey who had there debuts, got shipped back down. Are we still making the same mistakes regarding our Youth, we need more breaking through that is for sure. Let's face it, those two youngsters showed more heart than what Ghazi did who chose to walk off when the team needed him and had a pop at Mings. If I had my way I would of taught Ghazi a lesson on a couple of occasions, something Smith has failed at and unable to bring himself to do which is teach players lessons. It's something that is concerning me with Smith where he seems way to soft on first teamers when they do something wrong. Smith needs to be tough, at times you could see it in our lads that they knew there place was sealed, because in Smith's eyes it was there position. The youth needs to be given more of a chsnce and getting tough would allow that to happen abit more. Edited May 5, 2020 by Dave-R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 5 hours ago, gurru991 said: Why was he shit ? And why is he so good at Wolves ? He was young and headless with just raw pace, probably came at the wrong time in terms of Villa. It took Pulis and then Nuno to add discipline and then end product to his game He was exciting to watch as it scared defenders but refusing to play for the club though is unforgivable 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 5, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted May 5, 2020 6 hours ago, gurru991 said: Why was he shit ? And why is he so good at Wolves ? 6 hours ago, sir_gary_cahill said: He wasn’t ****! You could see he had a lot of potential when he played at Villa, he is showing it now at Wolves He was shit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, sir_gary_cahill said: He wasn’t ****! You could see he had a lot of potential when he played at Villa, he is showing it now at Wolves Poor handling of a raw talent....I would think frustration crept in with him.....He has shown no signs of not wanting to play for 'boro or Wolves. by the powers of deduction, i would say, we was part of the problem.it is not a good sign to refuse to play for your club, but there must have been a problem that was not handled properly....in the light it has happened since. Edited May 5, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 1 minute ago, TRO said: Poor handling of a raw talent....I would think frustration crept in with him.....He has shown no signs of not wanting to play for 'boro or Wolves. by the powers of deduction, i would say, we was the problem. Do you think Traore would be performing to the same standard that he is at Wolves in our current Villa side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 5, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted May 5, 2020 1 minute ago, sir_gary_cahill said: Do you think Traore would be performing to the same standard that he is at Wolves in our current Villa side? No. By all accounts Nuno taking him under his wing has had a huge impact. No guaratee he would have got that here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts