Dean Smith

[TRO]

On 07/04/2020 at 15:17, romavillan said:

If the season is voided and we sign a few players I'm sure we will defend better. To play how Smith wants us to we need wingers who can work hard and get back, a defensive midfielder who can command a midfield, a proper destroyer who can in it back and pass well enough to get us going when we win it back and possibly another centre back too. A massive percentage of our goals against have been avoidable individual errors. That's not the system.

I agree, with your suggestions.

With regards to the system, i would expect the manager to buy the players to fit it, so Dean has to take part responsibility for that too.

I think the flanks are a huge problem both wingers and full backs, thats 4 players questionable.....its too many, for comfort.

[Dave-R]

On 07/04/2020 at 15:17, romavillan said:

If the season is voided and we sign a few players I'm sure we will defend better. To play how Smith wants us to we need wingers who can work hard and get back, a defensive midfielder who can command a midfield, a proper destroyer who can in it back and pass well enough to get us going when we win it back and possibly another centre back too. A massive percentage of our goals against have been avoidable individual errors. That's not the system.

I say this knowing he isn't a Winger, yet it may she'd light on the type of player we need on the Wings because of what he does on the pitch and how much he covers the field- Tammy Abraham.

I would honestly take Davis and convert him to the Wings and try him out there because he's similar to Tammy just without the goals. DAVIS will work his ass off to get around the pitch, but I can't ever see him scoring while he's a striker.

Bring Jack back to the centre and put Davis on the flank. I would much rather have a player who will run up and down the flank and help with defence ( which Davis does) than have someone like Ghazi not doing that part which clearly happens.

I would even try the Youths over our Wingers, at least when they played in the game we played them this season they showed they wanted to be there. Our current Wingers have failed and they need changing, at most have Ghazi and Trez as subs if we can't sell them for whatever reason yet.

[sir_gary_cahill]

6 hours ago, romavillan said:

You sure it's not that to play that way we need at least one top class ball playing central defender?

Why would a top class ball playing central defender come to us? Mings and Engels as the first choice pairing with Konsa and Hause as back up is fine for where we are I think

[TRO]

On 07/04/2020 at 15:14, romavillan said:

Klopp and Pep have worked with a DOF their whole careers, it's normal everywhere but the UK. It's not abotu upper hand, it's abotu dividing the roles, head coach works at the training ground and consults with DOF about how implementing their joint vision is going, what he might need player wise etc. DOF works with the scouting network to come up with possible options for the head coach and then they decide who to go for together.

A head coach isn't subordinate or weak, they do though concentrate on the football, not ringing round scouts and clubs touting/looking for players. 

The time for the manager is gone, and it might never really have existed as some took the role as more tracksuit and training, delegating the other tasks to head scouts and some were far more "big picture" DOF style managers who made sure they had a good team of coaches and didn't take training. 

Yeah i get that.

but Ron Saunders as an example had Tony Barton as the chief scout as well as assistant manager....He brought the majority of the signings in...and they were not high profile and Roy McLaren worked his bit with Ron at BMH.....they all showed huge improvement on an incremental basis.

Brian Clough had Peter Taylor did much the same.

while its now different, read between the lines and its much the same....just different titles.

The Guy at Leicester, Carr, i think it was, did much the same again, spotting Vardy , maguire etc.

its central to being successful, talent spotting.

sure they have to spread their net wider now due to competition, but it still comes down to those with the trained eye, get the gold.

[Dave-R]

14 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think the flanks are a huge problem both wingers and full backs, thats 4 players questionable.....its too many, for comfort.

Have been shouting it all season as to have others, yet no one clicks on at Villa because there either to stubborn to change or to daft to see the problem as it's hitting them in the face.

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, Dave-R said:

Have been shouting it all season as to have others, yet no one clicks on at Villa because there either to stubborn to change or to daft to see the problem as it's hitting them in the face.

The problem is Dave, we haven't bought very well.....and they don't want to admit it.

[Dave-R]

17 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said:

Why would a top class ball playing central defender come to us? Mings and Engels as the first choice pairing with Konsa and Hause as back up is fine for where we are I think

Because money makes the world go round and even for the right price you could out do one of the top five clubs in signing someone spectacular. You just need a good package, plan and talk the ball bags off of them to sign them.

Business is Business, it always will be.

Well money made the world go round till corona hit anyway.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Dave-R

[Dave-R]

Just now, TRO said:

The problem is Dave, we haven't bought very well.....and they don't want to admit it.

Exactly, they fluffed it good and it will cost another couple hundred mill to put it right, they do however need to admit there mistakes and only in admission can those mistake be put right TRO.

[sir_gary_cahill]

9 minutes ago, Dave-R said:

Because money makes the world go round and even for the right price you could out do one of the top give clubs in signing someone spectacular. You just need a good package, plan and talk the ball bags off of them to sign them.

Business is Business, it always will be.

Well money made the world go round till corona hit anyway.

I can’t argue with any of that but I think we would struggle to sign anyone better than Mings or Engels currently, do you agree? No matter how much money we throw at it

Edited April 8, 2020 by sir_gary_cahill

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, Dave-R said:

Because money makes the world go round and even for the right price you could out do one of the top give clubs in signing someone spectacular. You just need a good package, plan and talk the ball bags off of them to sign them.

Business is Business, it always will be.

Well money made the world go round till corona hit anyway.

In the past we picked up players like Dion Dublin, who didn't want to leave Coventry, nor did Darren Bent want to leave Sunderland, but clubs needed the cash....so they come.

in relative terms they don't now.....TV money has changed the landscape....clubs we compete with all have money.

You have to pay big bucks or have a world class manager, who spreads the gospel and promises big things (to prospective 

new recruits )that are believable...or pick up gems like John McGinn.

it seems it could be debatable on all fronts.

Edited April 8, 2020 by TRO

[Dave-R]

1 minute ago, sir_gary_cahill said:

I can’t argue with any of that but I think we would struggle to sign anyone better than Mings or Engels currently, do you agree?

I don't know, I've seen something just, now whether it's horse crap or not it would completely say we can sign better than them if it turns to be true.

Which is the signing of Christian Luyindama from galatasaray, if what I we're reading is correct then they are saying only a mega offer will prize him away from galatasaray and that we could even beat wolves to the 26 year olds signing.

We do now need to step up our intent, wolves got it right, so why cant we, there forward line is absolutely phenomenal and pretty much destroys all it comes up against, now why cant we build something like this Gary??

[sir_gary_cahill]

2 minutes ago, Dave-R said:

I don't know, I've seen something just, now whether it's horse crap or not it would completely say we can sign better than them if it turns to be true.

Which is the signing of Christian Luyindama from galatasaray, if what I we're reading is correct then they are saying only a mega offer will prize him away from galatasaray and that we could even beat wolves to the 26 year olds signing.

We do now need to step up our intent, wolves got it right, so why cant we, there forward line is absolutely phenomenal and pretty much destroys all it comes up against, now why cant we build something like this Gary??

It takes years of planning, our current owners and chief executive talk the talk to the press. The infrastructure is there I think with us but ultimately, it is on the pitch where it matters

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, Dave-R said:

I don't know, I've seen something just, now whether it's horse crap or not it would completely say we can sign better than them if it turns to be true.

Which is the signing of Christian Luyindama from galatasaray, if what I we're reading is correct then they are saying only a mega offer will prize him away from galatasaray and that we could even beat wolves to the 26 year olds signing.

We do now need to step up our intent, wolves got it right, so why cant we, there forward line is absolutely phenomenal and pretty much destroys all it comes up against, now why cant we build something like this Gary??

Not ignoring money Dave, but Traore is a part of that phenomenal forward line.

we had no one who could see his potential, presumably.....He was just an express train, when he was with us, with no end game.....Its obvious middlesborough and then Wolves worked with him. i know Nuno is a top class manager, but that what you get, when you have one.

its this sort of stuff that bugs me...  we just give him away, as good as.

what do they do at BMH?

[sir_gary_cahill]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

Not ignoring money Dave, but Traore is a part of that phenomenal forward line.

we had no one who could see his potential, presumably.....He was just an express train, when he was with us, with no end game.....Its obvious middlesborough and then Wolves worked with him. i know Nuno is a top class manager, but that what you get, when you have one.

its this sort of stuff that bugs me...  we just give him away, as good as.

what do they do at BMH?

Do you think Smith is a top class manager or has the potential to be?

[Dave-R]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

In the past we picked up players like Dion Dublin, who didn't want to leave Coventry, nor did Darren Bent want to leave Sunderland, but clubs needed the cash....so they come.

in relative terms they don't now.....TV money has changed the landscape....clubs we compete with all have money.

You have to pay big bucks or have a world class manager, who spreads the gospel and promises big things (to prospective 

new recruits )that are believable...or pick up gems like John McGinn.

it seems it could be debatable on all fronts.

I do agree with your mega bucks little gems theory, its how man utd used to steal our players.

I don't blame clubs for using that method now, clubs don't want to be treated like they can be swindled out of real talent. We now have to find our way of making that similar way of selling work because I doubt that the players we've bought and performed this season would be wanted highly by many clubs seeking talent. Our players need to start looking at making themselves bigger for there sake and the club they are with because they as it stand I don't think they warrant what we paid for them.

I do think to move along and find better talent we will have to do abit of both of finding little gems and paying big bucks, nothing wrong with either if we can do it.

 

[Dave-R]

23 minutes ago, TRO said:

Not ignoring money Dave, but Traore is a part of that phenomenal forward line.

we had no one who could see his potential, presumably.....He was just an express train, when he was with us, with no end game.....Its obvious middlesborough and then Wolves worked with him. i know Nuno is a top class manager, but that what you get, when you have one.

its this sort of stuff that bugs me...  we just give him away, as good as.

what do they do at BMH?

Ok so it we still had Traore in our current circumstances, do you think he'd become what he is now TRO or do you think he'd of slipped away under our noses as he did before. Would Smith and co got right right with Traore or would they of messed up as well because i think that the important question that if we can answer should decide whether Smith really is to be kept around or not. Can Smith and co identify talent like Traore, work with them and keep those type of players supplying the goods for along time??

Edited April 8, 2020 by Dave-R

[Zatman]

32 minutes ago, Dave-R said:

I don't know, I've seen something just, now whether it's horse crap or not it would completely say we can sign better than them if it turns to be true.

Which is the signing of Christian Luyindama from galatasaray, if what I we're reading is correct then they are saying only a mega offer will prize him away from galatasaray and that we could even beat wolves to the 26 year olds signing.

We do now need to step up our intent, wolves got it right, so why cant we, there forward line is absolutely phenomenal and pretty much destroys all it comes up against, now why cant we build something like this Gary??

He hasnt played a game since November through injury and only 20 games for Galatasaray. he has only had 1 season in Europe as a regular starter which was in the Belgian league which isnt impressive for a guy in his mid 20s

[VillanousOne]

you look at other teams and players all over the pitch find space and one another, supporting movement and giving options.

Our defence end up waiting for the next attack as they know we won't keep possession long, this means they back off waiting for the last tackle, corner or shot.

The wingers don't work well with the wing backs, Targett occasionally plays well with Grealish but that is about it.

we play like what we are, an expensively assembled team of strangers who have no clue how to play with one another, have little coaching or confidence to change that.

[Adam2003]

14 hours ago, TRO said:

In the past we picked up players like Dion Dublin, who didn't want to leave Coventry, nor did Darren Bent want to leave Sunderland, but clubs needed the cash....so they come.

in relative terms they don't now.....TV money has changed the landscape....clubs we compete with all have money.

You have to pay big bucks or have a world class manager, who spreads the gospel and promises big things (to prospective 

new recruits )that are believable...or pick up gems like John McGinn.

it seems it could be debatable on all fronts.

This is an interesting point and a part of TV money I hadn’t really considered. Makes it harder to bully ‘smaller’ clubs out of their players... that said as I said in the other thread we have only signed ten players since NRC in 2008 for more than what we paid for him - so really it’s that our spending is on average a decade behind the rest of the League (thanks to three years in the Champ I guess).

Small correction on Bent - Sunderland didn’t want to sell him but he himself was desperate to get out of the north east. But amounts to the same thing with your point on paying what they couldn’t say no to.

[VillaChris]

16 hours ago, Dave-R said:

Ok so it we still had Traore in our current circumstances, do you think he'd become what he is now TRO or do you think he'd of slipped away under our noses as he did before. Would Smith and co got right right with Traore or would they of messed up as well because i think that the important question that if we can answer should decide whether Smith really is to be kept around or not. Can Smith and co identify talent like Traore, work with them and keep those type of players supplying the goods for along time??

He'd have been fine. Let's be honest El Ghazi and Trez are headless chickens for majority of games. AEG has the odd really good one now and then which shows his potential but then you don't see them the next week. He's played in the CL for Ajax so way more experienced at the top level than when Adama was with us.

One of the reasons our record v top 6/7 teams has been so bad compared to everyone else is you need 2-3 quick counter attacking players to break on them. We had that in the MON days and so we won regularly away to likes of Arsenal and Liverpool.

Aside from when Grealish is running with the ball we counter attack so slowly.

Gana and Amavi from that time would be really good in this present set up imo aswell.