lapal_fan Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 23 hours ago, Graham t said: 'Similar circumstances '.... Potter 62.5 million spent in summer Smith 146 million spent in summer not exactly similar then...... ATB VLD Sorry, but this is such a thick argument it literally means nothing. Look at those figures in context. I **** hate reading 146m now, it means **** all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Not sure why Dean should have no blame for the recruitment, I doubt he wouldn't have played a part in the signings that happened. People say he wanted Maupay not Wes, but this is total speculation. Certainly if he didn't want Wes you'd wonder why he would put him as the lone frontman even when he was contributing nothing. Also as many have said we have seen many of the players signed actually do quite well, they just seem to have a got a lot worse as the pressure has mounted and the season has gone on. I don't personally blame him for the signings, I don't buy that our squad is that bad either, a work in progress yes, but I really feel like someone else could have worked out how to get a lot more out of these players. Also we looked really solid in our win against Burnley yet somehow that performance has never been even close to being repeated ever since. If we have written off the season and know we are being relegated then keeping Dean probably makes sense and giving him one more transfer window to sort out the squad, if we want to stay up and could find a better option then in my view we should try and fight to stay in the league. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 If this season gets voided I'd keep Smith but he must get a few PL experienced players in. There's some good players who will get better as time progresses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham t Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 8 hours ago, lapal_fan said: Sorry, but this is such a thick argument it literally means nothing. Look at those figures in context. I **** hate reading 146m now, it means **** all. Could you expand your argument without swearing. It just makes you sound like an idiot. Regards, VLD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 6 minutes ago, Graham t said: Could you expand your argument without swearing. It just makes you sound like an idiot. Regards, VLD. No, not really. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 22 hours ago, The Hawk said: Thank you for pointing out that a board can’t see into the future with complete certainty. This nothing statement alone proves you’ve missed the point. What a board CAN do however is make an evaluation of their current position and set a realistic target/goal for promotion. As for your comment about your realistic expectation as a fan - fair enough and I agree to an extent. The board want attacking football as in the long run it’ll give us greater opportunity to reach the heights that we want to versus playing defensive survival football. Smith has committed to this, it hasn’t worked out, and you can definitely argue that he’s been stubborn in his approach to changing this despite the change in formation. I firmly believe however that the damage was done with our summer recruitment and that even if we shifted to a more defensive style we would still be rubbish. We bought players from completely random nationalities and leagues and made the task of integrating a new squad together even more difficult as a result. As the season has gone on, our confidence has completely disappeared which has led us to our current predicament. It’s not necessarily a matter of “Smith has taken us backwards”, people need to realise that. The post that I commented on - which wasn’t from you - said that we achieved promotion a year ahead of schedule. So that made clear that the poster thought the board had determined the year in which we would get promotion. My response was that you can’t programme these things and we should be doing everything possible to consolidate the promotion we have gained. This is not “missing the point”. I wonder if anyone arguing the bizarre line that this is not true can actually say clearly what their “point” is. What Smith has seriously failed to do is create football that would secure our premier league status. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hawk Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, briny_ear said: The post that I commented on - which wasn’t from you - said that we achieved promotion a year ahead of schedule. So that made clear that the poster thought the board had determined the year in which we would get promotion. My response was that you can’t programme these things and we should be doing everything possible to consolidate the promotion we have gained. This is not “missing the point”. I wonder if anyone arguing the bizarre line that this is not true can actually say clearly what their “point” is. What Smith has seriously failed to do is create football that would secure our premier league status. It’s well documented that Purslow said that the expectation/aim was to be promoted within two seasons once Smith took the helm. Setting a goal is not the same as “determining when we will get promoted”. Boards set goals, that’s a basic fact. Smith achieved the goal set for him and the club in year one, hence it was ahead of expectations. You then started suggesting that other people were suggesting that the board “did not want promotion in year one” and that they were thinking “oh, now we got promoted we should get relegated and start again” which is just nonsense and not what was being said at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 1 hour ago, briny_ear said: What Smith has seriously failed to do is create football that would secure our premier league status. This is the thing for me. Even if we stay up, this football isn't sustainable long term. You can count on one hand the amount of performances you could describe as good. His system is deeply flawed, it's pretty much broken. As individuals, the eye test and all the numbers point to them being fine. Our CBs all rank decently, goals from our flanks aren't anything special compared to the league average. He's not learning either, and for me this is the big thing and the deal breaker. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 8 hours ago, Zhan_Zhuang said: If this season gets voided I'd keep Smith but he must get a few PL experienced players in. There's some good players who will get better as time progresses. We are in a better position than last summer, we don't need to bring in 11 players next transfer window as we have a squad now. 3 or 4 quality additions is all thats required and build from that 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Zatman said: We are in a better position than last summer, we don't need to bring in 11 players next transfer window as we have a squad now. 3 or 4 quality additions is all thats required and build from that Yup pretty much what I alluded to earlier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubbs Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 Won't really matter if we're don't stay up though will it. At least this extended break gives players like SJM and JG time to get fully fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham t Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 8 hours ago, lapal_fan said: No, not really. Perhaps your nurse could help you...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham t Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 24 minutes ago, dubbs said: Won't really matter if we're don't stay up though will it. At least this extended break gives players like SJM and JG time to get fully fit. Yes they will, but unfortunatly not at Aston Villa.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 47 minutes ago, Graham t said: Perhaps your nurse could help you...... That makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 (edited) On 17/03/2020 at 23:42, kurtsimonw said: Wilder has shown that simply a bit of discipline and defensive stability in a system can go a long way. Potter and Smith get plaudits for trying to "play the right way", but it just shows their limitations of a coach. Anyone can want their team to play like 2008 Barca, it's getting your team to achieve without being able to play that way that sets you apart IMO. (FWIW, I think Wilder will be Championship or PL fodder within a few years. Bubble will burst very quickly) Simply spot on....first line cannot be emphasised enough imo. However, I don't think Wilders bubble will burst, i think its wishful thinking by folk who are frustrated, by the sheer simplicity of his approach......they said the same about us during our halcyon days, they all laughed at work rate then and Ron's Mantra....but his team went on beat one of the best assembled teams in Europe and his recruitment was designed to fit his philosophy, he lost top players, but bought similiar types in...Gray/withe, Gidman/swain I am not saying we all have to play like Athletico Madrid, but the lessons to be gleaned are crucial to premier league sustainability. Edited March 19, 2020 by TRO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 On 18/03/2020 at 16:08, lapal_fan said: Sorry, but this is such a thick argument it literally means nothing. Look at those figures in context. I **** hate reading 146m now, it means **** all. The 146 million, is a very significant piece of criteria, its dumb to say different....it could ( hopefully not) turn out to be a missed opportunity, that sets us back. despite the challenge we had of replacing so many players, it could have been spent much better.imo. I would imagine many clubs managers in the lower quartile of the league, would have been ecstatic at receiving such a sum, despite the watering down of its value, in some quarters.....i think some was expecting c300 million, judging by their comments of value per player. its good to have a platform like this to debate......perhaps the regretable language has lost your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 9 hours ago, dubbs said: Won't really matter if we're don't stay up though will it. At least this extended break gives players like SJM and JG time to get fully fit. All of them, not just McGinn and Grealish 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted March 19, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted March 19, 2020 His point has been made, remade and made again. Seems that it's not sinking in though, we brought in 15 players for that. 15. Fifteen. A good player at prem level would cost between 25 and 50 million. We spent on average less than 10 million per player. We couldn't have spent a lot more, and we couldn't have started the season with a full squad in terms of simply numbers without getting in at least 15 players. Not really seeing how much choice we had to be honest. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted March 19, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted March 19, 2020 10 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: All of them, not just McGinn and Grealish End of April enough time for Heaton and Wes? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 (edited) 20 hours ago, romavillan said: His point has been made, remade and made again. Seems that it's not sinking in though, we brought in 15 players for that. 15. Fifteen. A good player at prem level would cost between 25 and 50 million. We spent on average less than 10 million per player. We couldn't have spent a lot more, and we couldn't have started the season with a full squad in terms of simply numbers without getting in at least 15 players. Not really seeing how much choice we had to be honest. I get the point....but i think the money could have been handled better....and I am certainly not alone in that thinking. as an example we bought Targett and Luiz for 30 million.....we could have bought a loan player and a better quality midfielder. I very much do see a choice.....its about getting better quality in key areas, not speading the quality and diluting the effect......we have spread the quality and suffered.....i.e jack of all trades and a master of none. Edited March 20, 2020 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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