TRO Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, jacketspuds said: Can you imagine what a total PR bollock fest we would put ourselves in if we sacked Smith now? We can't sack Smith now....too much uncertainty in the game. but I don't want him sacked anyway......I want him to be able to get us to defend as a team. Edited April 6, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 15 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said: Who would you go for? I don't know enough about what's out there. Pochettino or Villas Boaz, just as a stab in the dark. Really, just want Dean to get us to defend better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted April 7, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted April 7, 2020 On 06/04/2020 at 14:38, TRO said: So be it. The successful managers create the role by definition......They create their own power base, who is going to overule Klopp or Pep on football matters?......even Chris Wilder, now. Its all a matter of opinion, but I think the role we have is retrograde, despite it being popular on the continent. Of course it does beg the question of the relationship between the head coach and the DOF on transfers.....If and I say If, the DOF has the upper hand in transfers, it won't work....Thats assuming the head coach has it right too. Klopp and Pep have worked with a DOF their whole careers, it's normal everywhere but the UK. It's not abotu upper hand, it's abotu dividing the roles, head coach works at the training ground and consults with DOF about how implementing their joint vision is going, what he might need player wise etc. DOF works with the scouting network to come up with possible options for the head coach and then they decide who to go for together. A head coach isn't subordinate or weak, they do though concentrate on the football, not ringing round scouts and clubs touting/looking for players. The time for the manager is gone, and it might never really have existed as some took the role as more tracksuit and training, delegating the other tasks to head scouts and some were far more "big picture" DOF style managers who made sure they had a good team of coaches and didn't take training. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted April 7, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted April 7, 2020 On 06/04/2020 at 14:49, TRO said: I don't know enough about what's out there. Pochettino or Villas Boaz, just as a stab in the dark. Really, just want Dean to get us to defend better. If the season is voided and we sign a few players I'm sure we will defend better. To play how Smith wants us to we need wingers who can work hard and get back, a defensive midfielder who can command a midfield, a proper destroyer who can in it back and pass well enough to get us going when we win it back and possibly another centre back too. A massive percentage of our goals against have been avoidable individual errors. That's not the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 1 hour ago, romavillan said: A massive percentage of our goals against have been avoidable individual errors. That's not the system. But isn't he keen on defenders playing out from the back? Can't this lead to individual mistakes? Then that is in fact the system i'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 6 hours ago, romavillan said: If the season is voided and we sign a few players I'm sure we will defend better. To play how Smith wants us to we need wingers who can work hard and get back, a defensive midfielder who can command a midfield, a proper destroyer who can in it back and pass well enough to get us going when we win it back and possibly another centre back too. A massive percentage of our goals against have been avoidable individual errors. That's not the system. This. Like some people have said over and over it doesn't matter much what manager you got when you have to play Wes, Trez, Taylor, Hause, Drinkwater, Hourihane, Lansbury, El Ghazi etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 On 27/03/2020 at 10:11, villalad21 said: You are right here. Changing the manager at this point in time makes zero sense. Can't even do any training sessions. The transfer window won't be available ( Who knows for how long?) If the season get's voided i honestly think Smith will be given another chance. See if he's learned from his mistakes. It's a funny one. In normal circumstances I think he'd still have been here in August if we'd gone down (perhaps not if we'd lose 9 of our last 11 and gone down with a whimper as we were threatening). If we stay up through a void season that's a massive get out of jail clause particularly if FFP also gets relaxed. I'd prefer us then to have a proper go and get in 3-4 top players and also change manager when everything restarts rather than just keep on making similar mistakes and waste another year (and potentially more if there's more relegation spots next season). More likely he'll be here when we next play and we'll see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, romavillan said: If the season is voided and we sign a few players I'm sure we will defend better. To play how Smith wants us to we need wingers who can work hard and get back, a defensive midfielder who can command a midfield, a proper destroyer who can in it back and pass well enough to get us going when we win it back and possibly another centre back too. A massive percentage of our goals against have been avoidable individual errors. That's not the system. The system means we play a very high line against most sides and it's too easy for them to play around and get through in goal. Think of the first Southampton goal at VP in December. Also Spurs at home. We were better then them first half yet they still could've easily scored 5 goals through simple balls over the top which eventually resulted in the penalty. Leicester home was another brutal example. I get why we play high as we can get on the front foot more in the opposition half but sometimes you have to be pragmatic and adapt to better opposition than you and grind things out more. That's one area Dean has really struggled with in the premier league. Another obviously in game management which links to changing system or shape halfway through a game if it's not working. Edited April 7, 2020 by VillaChris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 Not sure how much training is or will go on before any restart, but lets hope Dean and the coaching staff spend a lot of time reviewing videos of our team play in order to analyse what the hell we were doing wrong. The options we then have is hope Drinkwater (if his career at Villa isn't already over) can get properly fit and provide some steel and possession in midfield. Chance of happening 3/10 McGinn can come back and make a difference somehow. Chance of happening 6/10 only because it will take a lot of playing matches to get properly match fit again and he will probably spend time coming off the bench. Jota can be deployed in midfield to try and keep some possession. Chance of happening 3/10, if Dean hadn't thought of it already then no reason he would now. Other than that I'm not sure what he'd do differently in terms of playing staff as he's tried ever combination of players we have. Getting another formation/way of playing and mentality change in place will take some doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 McGinn will have plenty of training under his belt by time of restart so he'll be starting and in same boat as all the other players who haven't played a match in 5-6 months. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 (edited) On 07/04/2020 at 15:17, romavillan said: If the season is voided and we sign a few players I'm sure we will defend better. To play how Smith wants us to we need wingers who can work hard and get back, a defensive midfielder who can command a midfield, a proper destroyer who can in it back and pass well enough to get us going when we win it back and possibly another centre back too. A massive percentage of our goals against have been avoidable individual errors. That's not the system. First of all sorry I've not been about, with the current circumstances and the symptoms I've had which are mild, I take to just reading a few posts per week. I do not think we need any defenders signed or keepers unless we get pepe . I do actually think if we just stick to signing for our midfield and wingers, spend a bit of money in those areas we will be just fine. If we buy players who know what they are doing not to mention have the physical requirements, we should handle games better in all directions. This time needs to be used right before we botch this up and its by by premier league and it will be our own faults. It's no secret that that our midfield for most games couldn't hold the midfield let alone move with the ball. Our attacking midfielders couldnt get in on the end of crosses because they couldnt arrive in time. Our midfield failed to not only keep possession, but relieve the ball from the opposition quickly, which all added to the constant pressure our defenders and keeper we're under for around 70 mins in most games. Most of the final stats in games will clearly show we were owned on possession and only a select few shown us as the dominant team. If we had much more capable players in midfield, we would show signs of that pressure in defence being releieved. Onto Wingers, its been clear all season that our Wingers are not good enough, they may of scored 5 or 7 goals but we need dominance up and down the wings and we have been completely destroyed in the flanks. If Smith is going to stick by Wingers fair enough but pay for some real talent, they are out there on there own under immense pressure from the best. If the wingers can not perform there duties up and down the pitch, then we are just wasting positions and time. We need to act now on Wingers most of all and decide whether it's time to remove the wingers or keep them and make it a thing with real talent. If the season does VOID then we as a club have real big decisions to make as to put right what we've got so wrong so far is going to be costly. As for keeping Smith I'm still not clear any longer whether we can function with him, I will say this though- If we had a chance of bringing someone who on record is much better and has the reputation to keep us a premier league side, I say we really couldn't not take that opportunity. Business is Business and unless we bring in who he needs to make things happen, I can't see us staying a premier club for the time being. Others have pointed out Smiths out of learning, while it looks to be true, he may yet figure the puzzle out because that is what all this is at the moment a big giant puzzle and someone out there has to have an answer for it to bring all the pieces together.. You take care all of you, am off to bed now as have a banging headache as of late amongst other things. Edited April 8, 2020 by Dave-R 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 36 minutes ago, VillaChris said: McGinn will have plenty of training under his belt by time of restart so he'll be starting and in same boat as all the other players who haven't played a match in 5-6 months. he must have big trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 At the same time as our defending being awful, if we eliminate a few individual errors here and there (Engels against Spurs and Mings against Arsenal spring to mind) then we’re no longer in the bottom three. Puts it in perspective. We don’t actually need to be much better to see improvements in the table. Nearly there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 7 hours ago, Enda said: At the same time as our defending being awful, if we eliminate a few individual errors here and there then we’re no longer in the bottom three. Puts it in perspective. We don’t actually need to be much better to see improvements in the table. Nearly there. Tbf I think that can be said for any team, cut out a few costly errors and you have a bunch more points. I think we do have serious flaws in how we play and it's not bad luck that we are where we are. We've been woeful in defense and we are terrible at keeping the ball. Only Newcastle and Burnley have the ball less than us and attempt fewer passes. We allow far too many shots, can't defend on set pieces and it is way too easy to pass through us in transition, 3 passes and it's a scoring chance. I think a lot of this is down to personal but not all of it. We've lacked players to trap the ball up the pitch, Samatta has helped with this but Trez, Wes and ElGhazi are useless at it meaning our midfield is seldom organized or positioned in a structured way. Our wide defenders are too narrow or out of position after being caught on the break meaning crosses galore. And while we seem to have an idea to pass the ball out of defense we don't seem to have any idea of how to actually to it. We mostly invite pressure and end up punting the ball or pass it to a teammate who is closed down and under pressure. A lot of what we do is half arsed and on most nights we are out thought be the opponents manager who's team seem better at exploiting our weaknesses than we are at exploiting theirs. There are more than one way to skin a cat and I've no idea why people are expecting a Smith team to out battle Burnley or Watford. That's not what this team was build for or the way we will be successful. The worrying thing for me is that we are so poor at the thing we should be good at. Every team should be playing to their strengths but I'm not sure we have any, Should not have to add that the squad looks like it does for obvious reasons and anyone ignoring this is being silly. Impossible to build a team in such short a time.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratvillan Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 I've just finished reading Johann Cruyff's autobiography "My turn". Theres loads of tactical snippets dotted throughout regarding defenders back tracking, midfielders being static etc. Awareness of opponents preferred use of feet etc. The penultimate chapter is an analysis of Villa (without being named of course!) his analysis is of how 433 is his preferred set up and he described how it should work. Interestingly his vision of 433 in terms of positions is the same as we we play (obviously with different quality players), but he argues it falls down on 2 key areas. Players not moving, he argues a player should always have a forward and sideways pass, thus seems obvious, but you watch how seldom this is the case at villa. The second one is when.players get more than 10 m away from each other, and the play subsequently slows down. Again, not rocket science but when you've watched a half and trez or el ghazi haven't been within 30 feet of the ball. He says these failings can be seen much more clearly when the opponents go down to 10 men. Sound familiar? We don't need to change much, but we do need to move and work harder. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 We need better wide players for sure. Will be a bit of a failure next season if we're still in premier league and Trez and AEG are still regular starters. Interesting people wanting revolution in central midfield as our two best outfield players play there so that's two indisputable positions (although of course Grealish could well move on). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted April 8, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted April 8, 2020 21 hours ago, villalad21 said: But isn't he keen on defenders playing out from the back? Can't this lead to individual mistakes? Then that is in fact the system i'm afraid. You sure it's not that to play that way we need at least one top class ball playing central defender? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 46 minutes ago, romavillan said: You sure it's not that to play that way we need at least one top class ball playing central defender? Then he needs to adapt and play more pragmatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screwdriver Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 (edited) Sacking smith during lockdown would send shockwaves through world football regarding the ambition and ruthlessness of the owners. As there are no sport stories at all during these wild times therefore Villa would be on back pages from wuhan to Los Angeles. These actions would raise Villa's global profile fiftyfold and enable us to get a real headcoach, cheerleader motivator in. The uniqueness of the situation would bring amazing media attention as the new coach streams training sessions through zoom. They could then upload the content live to season ticket holders on AVTV. Fans could train with the pro's. then charge regular punters 5.99 a go to join in the fun! It would be the feel good story of the year.......until KEnian Davis gets injured in his kitchen by a stray fish knife, and the sessions have to be stopped to "protect the NHS" Edited April 8, 2020 by screwdriver 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 18 hours ago, Enda said: At the same time as our defending being awful, if we eliminate a few individual errors here and there (Engels against Spurs and Mings against Arsenal spring to mind) then we’re no longer in the bottom three. Puts it in perspective. We don’t actually need to be much better to see improvements in the table. Nearly there. I do not see them as errors, i see it all as we can't keep out goals when any clubs defence is under so much strain for most of the game. Sorry but I just do not see many of the goals we've let in as mistakes when a team is under a barrage of artillery as we've been under, I doubt any club could keep that up all game. I still believe as I have all season that making some very necessary signings to our attacking lines would relieve that defensive pressure. I think it's absolute madness to expect our keeper and defenders to even make clean sheets when the forward positions from them only have one player (grealish) actually working all over the pitch all game long. No wonder why Jack bashed his car and went to a party during lockdown, he thought a breather at last and a chance to let his hair down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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