Dean Smith

[DeadlyDirk]

See I'm torn with what I think the club should do.

On one hand, I feel that Smith has failed to adapt to the demands and pace of the premier league, and has consistently used the "It's VAR's fault" line all too much, and whilst true that we have been dealt a crappy hand by it, so has every other club. That failure to take responsibility could doom us.

On the other hand, he did get us promoted playing attractive attacking football, at times he's been refreshingly honest, and it would be a supreme lack of class to sack the manager during a pandemic, the likes this generation has never seen or experienced before, I just feel the guys at the top have a bit of class about them and they won't do it, as I think I have too.

Decisions, decisions.

[Graham t]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

I was fascinated to see you both disagreeing, when gleaning both your past posts, you seem to have a similar outlook.....i fear some wires have been crossed here

We all want the same thing, which is a successful football club. We simply have different ideas how to achieve that aim. Having different opinions is normal and should be respected.... ( which you do , btw ).

ATB.

VLD.

[The Hawk]

13 hours ago, regular_john said:

I think it would be a real shame if Smith got the sack.

 

Think back to where we were when he came in - drifting about, midtable in the championship and looking like having another write off of a season. He comes in, galvanises us and, before you know it, has us celebrating a big win at Wembley. Not only that, his team breaks an all time club winning record en route.

 

That, ironically, is where I think it all went pear shaped. Had we lost that game, I think the consensus would have been that he did brilliantly to get us there and he should be given the opportunity to have a full season with us. At that point, he could have rebuilt the squad and had a year in the championship, with less pressure and at a lower standard, to get the team bedded in and ready for life in the premier league.

 

But that's not what happened. By getting us promoted, he was suddenly in a situation where he had half a squad that drastically needed overhauling to survive in the prem. 

 

Think about that squad:

 

- Three of our best players were loan players that went back to their parent club (Mings, Tuanzebe, Abraham). We also lost El Ghazi, who had a decent season.

 

- We had three keepers who had never shown anything resembling premier league quality

 

- We had a defence that included; Chester, who is never fit; Hutton, who retired; Elphick, who was nowhere near prem quality; Taylor, who is not prem quality, and Micah Richards, who spent the whole season injured and then retired

 

- We had a midfield that included; Whelan, who now plays in league 1; Hourihane, who often does naff all apart from pop up with the odd goal; Jedinak, who is currently without a club; Bjarnason, who is nowhere near prem quality, and Adomah, who is nowhere near prem quality

 

- Our forward line included Davis, who never scores, and Kodjia, who is currently plying his trade in Qatar

 

Those are the players that needed replacing as a bare minimum, not to mention adding extra bodies to complete the squad. Yes, he had money to spend, but £140 million does not buy the 10-12 prem quality players we required. That's the reality of the modern football environment. Had we had an extra season in the championship, we would have at least had a team who knew each other well and knew how to play together.

 

Despite all of that, Smith still managed to get us in touching distance of our first major trophy in 24 years, which is something that took MON four years.

 

We also have to keep in mind that we've come up as the playoff side. In the last 25 years, the playoff team has only stayed up 4 or 5 times. We all knew relegation was a strong possibility this season. We all knew that 17th and above would be acceptable. 

 

Given all of the above, sacking Smith at this point seems incredibly harsh and unfair. He's not perfect, he's made mistakes, he's stubborn, he's still learning how to manage at this level. His players are competing against some of the best in the world. As a manager, he is competing against some of the best in the world.

 

This constant hiring and firing of managers has gotten us nowhere. It's time we gave a manager real time and support, even if that means weathering the storm, including relegation if it came to it.

 

I think he deserves our support and the chance to continue the good job he has done so far.

 

 

 

 

Wow, a voice of reason! 

[kurtsimonw]

9 hours ago, TRO said:

I was fascinated to see you both disagreeing, when gleaning both your past posts, you seem to have a similar outlook.....i fear some wires have been crossed here

Not at all.

The suggestion was made that our ownership are poor because they gave Dean a new contract after 1 win. That is in no way correct. I don't think he's capable of taking us to where we want to be, but I respect the man enough to not have nonsense made up about him.

[sir_gary_cahill]

45 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said:

Not at all.

The suggestion was made that our ownership are poor because they gave Dean a new contract after 1 win. That is in no way correct. I don't think he's capable of taking us to where we want to be, but I respect the man enough to not have nonsense made up about him.

Where do you think we want to be? Who would you get in to replace Smith?

[kurtsimonw]

3 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said:

Where do you think we want to be? Who would you get in to replace Smith?

Now? Premier League survival.

As I said before. I've no idea who's available or who would come. That's up to the people in charge.

[sir_gary_cahill]

5 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said:

Now? Premier League survival.

As I said before. I've no idea who's available or who would come. That's up to the people in charge.

Are you happy with Smith now? 

[kurtsimonw]

3 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said:

Are you happy with Smith now? 

No.

I 100% believe the players don't believe in him either.

[sir_gary_cahill]

10 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said:

No.

I 100% believe the players don't believe in him either.

Do you think we will stay up?

[Graham t]

Dean was given his contract extension when when the club was in 15 th position 

 

and only 4 points above the relegation zone. Obviously if we were to finish in that position then I think every fan would be happy and Dean would be deserving of a new contract , maybe. 

I thought that giving the manager a contract extension so early in the season was crazy as it was too early to judge the managers performance.

It appears that I was correct. Since then the club has been sliding steadily towards relegation with the teams performances getting worse ( by and large ) every week.

Wether sacking Dean would save us from relegation is impossible to forecast but I just don't see him as a Premier manager, he simply has no tactical skills ( just look at our defence ) and the player recruitment has been an embarrassing waste of money.

Some may disagree with my analysis and I welcome his supporters posting on here and expanding on his abilities.

ATB

VLD.

[sir_gary_cahill]

1 minute ago, Graham t said:

Dean was given his contract extension when when the club was in 15 th position 

 

and only 4 points above the relegation zone. Obviously if we were to finish in that position then I think every fan would be happy and Dean would be deserving of a new contract , maybe. 

I thought that giving the manager a contract extension so early in the season was crazy as it was too early to judge the managers performance.

It appears that I was correct. Since then the club has been sliding steadily towards relegation with the teams performances getting worse ( by and large ) every week.

Wether sacking Dean would save us from relegation is impossible to forecast but I just don't see him as a Premier manager, he simply has no tactical skills ( just look at our defence ) and the player recruitment has been an embarrassing waste of money.

Some may disagree with my analysis and I welcome his supporters posting on here and expanding on his abilities.

ATB

VLD.

Who would you get in as manager to replace Smith?

[Graham t]

3 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said:

Who would you get in as manager to replace Smith?

Yes , that's the million dollar question isn't it. A young , unproven Graham Potter or an old experienced Sam Allardyce? I honestly don't know. What I do see is that Smith is failing.

ATB.

VLD.

[villa4europe]

2 hours ago, kurtsimonw said:

No.

I 100% believe the players don't believe in him either.

that's the crux of it for me although I would have said yes, that's the biggest disappointment with it, I like him and want him to succeed but watching us vs Leicester for the 2nd time this season (1st being just before xmas) I look at our players and think they're not buying what he's selling

inconsistency that comes with being new to the league, lack of confidence that comes from poor results and now lack of effort which seemingly plagues aston villa

 

 

[sir_gary_cahill]

11 minutes ago, Graham t said:

Yes , that's the million dollar question isn't it. A young , unproven Graham Potter or an old experienced Sam Allardyce? I honestly don't know. What I do see is that Smith is failing.

ATB.

VLD.

I think Potter is an excellent young manager but Brighton are an established Premier League club now. I don’t think he would leave Brighton to come to Villa. I think that we should stick with Smith for the time being, I know the majority of our fans are sick of him but I think deserves to be given until the end of the season at least. Chopping and changing manager doesn’t really help a club move forward in my opinion. Patience is needed I think

[Graham t]

1 hour ago, sir_gary_cahill said:

I think Potter is an excellent young manager but Brighton are an established Premier League club now. I don’t think he would leave Brighton to come to Villa. I think that we should stick with Smith for the time being, I know the majority of our fans are sick of him but I think deserves to be given until the end of the season at least. Chopping and changing manager doesn’t really help a club move forward in my opinion. Patience is needed I think

It would appear that the football season is finished as from now for this season at least. If the club decide to make a change then now would be ideal to give the new manager time to asses his players and introduce his own coaching philosophy.

Obviously changing managers too often is not something that any club would take lightly. But what do you do when the incumbent is so clearly out of his depth.....

ATB

VLD.

[OxfordVillan]

19 minutes ago, Graham t said:

It would appear that the football season is finished as from now for this season at least. If the club decide to make a change then now would be ideal to give the new manager time to asses his players and introduce his own coaching philosophy.

Obviously changing managers too often is not something that any club would take lightly. But what do you do when the incumbent is so clearly out of his depth.....

ATB

VLD.

How do you think sacking Dean Smith during a football shutdown due to a pandemic would look, what type of press coverage do you think we’d receive? I’ve read some of your posts above where you say you don’t know who should replace Dean Smith and that’s the job of the owners, but I beg to differ. By calling for a sacking you have to have a good idea of the replacement, otherwise your argument is mute. Which alternative to Dean Smith is viable, better qualified, obtainable? Unless you can give solid answers to the aforementioned, you’re calling for a sacking with no idea of any credible replacement. And that’s not particularly clever.

[VillaFaninLondon]

15 minutes ago, OxfordVillan said:

How do you think sacking Dean Smith during a football shutdown due to a pandemic would look, what type of press coverage do you think we’d receive? I’ve read some of your posts above where you say you don’t know who should replace Dean Smith and that’s the job of the owners, but I beg to differ. By calling for a sacking you have to have a good idea of the replacement, otherwise your argument is mute. Which alternative to Dean Smith is viable, better qualified, obtainable? Unless you can give solid answers to the aforementioned, you’re calling for a sacking with no idea of any credible replacement. And that’s not particularly clever.

I agree that right this instant is probably not the classiest thing to do as a football club, but I am of the belief we need to replace him before next season unless we want another relegation battle. Two names I'd put forward to be manager would be Ralf Rangnick, who previously managed RB Leipzig and now works in a development role for Red Bull Salzburg. The other is Rafa Benitez who obviously now manages in China. I don't think either would be unobtainable but we might have to pay their existing clubs money to get their services. 

[TRO]

11 hours ago, Graham t said:

We all want the same thing, which is a successful football club. We simply have different ideas how to achieve that aim. Having different opinions is normal and should be respected.... ( which you do , btw ).

ATB.

VLD.

Yep.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, OxfordVillan said:

How do you think sacking Dean Smith during a football shutdown due to a pandemic would look, what type of press coverage do you think we’d receive? I’ve read some of your posts above where you say you don’t know who should replace Dean Smith and that’s the job of the owners, but I beg to differ. By calling for a sacking you have to have a good idea of the replacement, otherwise your argument is mute. Which alternative to Dean Smith is viable, better qualified, obtainable? Unless you can give solid answers to the aforementioned, you’re calling for a sacking with no idea of any credible replacement. And that’s not particularly clever.

I respectfully question the logic you put forward in regards to not knowing his possible replacement.

The timing as you say would not be good PR.

its quite normal for fans to know, something is not right, without necessarily know what it takes to remedy it.

Football clubs have all the contacts and all the data, they have the nous, hopefully...as an example again, I would never have thought that Ron Saunders was a good appointment, but the club, knew his credentials, most fans didn't.

Many managers have come to these shores and made a success of things, without many fans having ever heard of them....Arsene Wenger is just one example.

not knowing the answer does not negate the ability to know something is wrong.

Edited March 16, 2020 by TRO

[TRO]

6 hours ago, kurtsimonw said:

Not at all.

The suggestion was made that our ownership are poor because they gave Dean a new contract after 1 win. That is in no way correct. I don't think he's capable of taking us to where we want to be, but I respect the man enough to not have nonsense made up about him.

Fair comment