Eastie Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 6 minutes ago, TRO said: No disrespect to them.....but i don't see much fun in beating Rotherham and Burton Albion.....entertainment is in the eye of the beholder, i do understand their claim, but I fail to see the fun or entertainment in losing or drawing regularly.....Paul McGrath was a defender and arguably the best player i ever saw at Villa park, if folk couldn't appreciate the finer arts of Macca , i am not sure, what they are looking at. it takes good players to win at a decent level and to get them it takes money and money is generated through winning.....folks want to follow a team that wins....everybody, fans,sponsors, players, want to be associated with winners.....entertainment is a by product that is the icing on the cake. The examples most folk give about entertaining football is also winning football, they go had in glove.....but on the way to being both, you sometimes have to win ugly. As always Tro you have summed it up nicely . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 As the season has progressed our key players have got steadily worse, maybe with the exception of Luiz who is the only player playing well since the restart. We can't get results when you only get two players per game actually putting in a decent performance (if we are lucky). Smith persists with the same players and same formations, same late subs and expects different results. I like Dean I really do but he can't get anything out of these players anymore. There is no confidence in the team. I thought we would come back and deploy a fit Drinkwater and almost fit McGinn and something might change, no idea what i was smoking. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaFaninLondon Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 I agree that some clubs have struggled coming up via the playoffs, but there have also been many clubs that have finished well clear of relegation: Leicester 96/97 (9th) Ipswich 00/01 (5th) Bluenoses 02/03 (13th) West Ham 05/06 (9th) Swansea 11/12 (11th) West Ham 12/13 (10th) Crystal Palace 13/14 (11th) And for those still defending Smith, we have spent more than any other team upon getting promoted. Even those that finished 1st and 2nd. The prerequisite was to stay up this season, of course, but I and many others clearly thought finishing 12th-14th was realistic given the investment and that we'd be comfortably clear of relegation. That's slightly ambitious and hopeful, but not delusional at all given the level of investment. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 24, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted June 24, 2020 I think it's hard to argue he's doing a good job at the moment. We have been absolute dog shit for a long time now. I don't think I'd sack him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 47 minutes ago, Eastie said: Delusion to spend £170m and dare to think we’d stay up ? Right ok people whose views differ have been called deluded, foaming at the mouth , crazy etc by you in the last 2 days - no offence but time for me to reach for the ignore button - enjoy the rest of the season but I’m sick of your insulting people who disagree Join the club. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciggiesnbeer Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Zatman said: reading some Sheffield United fans having a go at Wilder in recent days. Not just Villa fans with OTT expectations I dont think Aston Villa being in the Premier League is an OTT expectation. Its the bare minimum expectation for any Aston Villa manager. Edited June 24, 2020 by ciggiesnbeer 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 We must shoot for the stars to reach the moon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 1 hour ago, mykeyb said: DCJonah do you see any evidence he is learning from his mistakes, the game tonight could have been won with a braver team selection, more proactive substitutions....... does that sound familiar? We targeted 17th and we are not 17th. We are 19th and are there because we continue to leak goals. We are looking worse than we did at the start of the season. We haven’t improved, looked tighter, appeared fitter, more organised. We see the same issues with zonal marking. We don’t try to stop the opposition playing and then we cannot keep the ball. I firmly believe that a better manager would have got more out of the players, found a system that works. If Dean keeps us up I will apologies but at this point I wouldn’t put your mortgage on it If we stay up, it will be more luck than judgment. If Dean does lose his job, he will not be associated with a club our size again....it will be back to a club like Brentford. I have seen scenarios like this before, where too many things are wrong and its too many to fix, with pressure building, there is an old saying " a stitch in time saves nine"... A top manager will spot and fix little things before they escalate and I'm afraid they have multiplied and he looks swamped. I seen it with Lambert, much the same. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 1 minute ago, TRO said: If we stay up, it will be more luck than judgment. If Dean does lose his job, he will not be associated with a club our size again....it will be back to a club like Brentford. I have seen scenarios like this before, where too many things are wrong and its too many to fix, with pressure building, there is an old saying " a stitch in time saves nine"... A top manager will spot and fix little things before they escalate and I'm afraid they have multiplied and he looks swamped. I seen it with Lambert, much the same. So what you're really saying is bring Sherwood back in to save our season? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) How about 4-3-1-2, Nyland, Elmo (guilbert when fit), Konsa/hause/engels (about the same Hause is better in the air but the others are right footed and better with the ball at the feet), mings, Taylor (Targett has been crap, lost the ball a stupid number of times and is terrible defensively), Nakamba, Luiz, Hourihane, (McGinn off the bench until fit - this should hopefully allow us to keep the ball and win it more easily), Grealish (free roam role in the centre to interplay with Davis), Davis, El Ghazi (free roam as well drift left and right but main job is to get in behind or make a pass after Davis wins the ball up top). Nyland Elmo Konsa. Mings. Taylor McGinn. Nakamba. Luiz Grealish El Ghazi. Davis If we need more help defensively El Ghazi and Davis can drop deeper to disrupt their central midfielders and we should still have 8 men in and around the box. Edit: Aside from Jack, El Ghazi is the only player who I expect to create something from open play and has great positioning in the box which we are missing from a striker atm. Edited June 24, 2020 by MotoMkali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM3000 Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 Well I wanted to see the wingers in action together and they were absolutely dreadful, I don't want to see them again. Having only two proper wingers and them both being awful is a big problem. Shift to a 3-4-3 and use Jota & Grealish with Davis/Samatta and the full backs on either side of the 4 or use the 3-5-2 with wing backs. Either way it's desperate enough that I want to see Elmo or Jota in the next line up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 24 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said: I agree that some clubs have struggled coming up via the playoffs, but there have also been many clubs that have finished well clear of relegation: Leicester 96/97 (9th) Ipswich 00/01 (5th) Bluenoses 02/03 (13th) West Ham 05/06 (9th) Swansea 11/12 (11th) West Ham 12/13 (10th) Crystal Palace 13/14 (11th) And for those still defending Smith, we have spent more than any other team upon getting promoted. Even those that finished 1st and 2nd. The prerequisite was to stay up this season, of course, but I and many others clearly thought finishing 12th-14th was realistic given the investment and that we'd be comfortably clear of relegation. That's slightly ambitious and hopeful, but not delusional at all given the level of investment. Spend for us this season means nothing. Our spending was spread out across God knows how many players because our squad was so ridiculously thin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciggiesnbeer Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 15 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: So what you're really saying is bring Sherwood back in to save our season? Well he did keep us up last time.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoony Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 What if he does keep us up? That’s the minimum (possibly even maximum) expectation right? With a squad as shit as ours (which isn’t actually Smith’s fault), it wouldn’t be a bad season just to stay in the league. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoony Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 40 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I think it's hard to argue he's doing a good job at the moment. We have been absolute dog shit for a long time now. I don't think I'd sack him though. Playing devils advocate a bit as I know our performances have been shit, but 2 points against Sheff United and away at Newcastle isn’t bad. And no one can really expect us to beat Chelsea. Arguably not a bad restart at all and we are level on points with 17th... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 5 minutes ago, Spoony said: Playing devils advocate a bit as I know our performances have been shit, but 2 points against Sheff United and away at Newcastle isn’t bad. And no one can really expect us to beat Chelsea. Arguably not a bad restart at all and we are level on points with 17th... It's about the bare minimum we needed to still be in this race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 26 minutes ago, AndyM3000 said: Well I wanted to see the wingers in action together and they were absolutely dreadful, I don't want to see them again. Having only two proper wingers and them both being awful is a big problem. Shift to a 3-4-3 and use Jota & Grealish with Davis/Samatta and the full backs on either side of the 4 or use the 3-5-2 with wing backs. Either way it's desperate enough that I want to see Elmo or Jota in the next line up. Both El Ghazi and Trez actually started the game well, then slowly disappeared. In fact the whole team started well but under Dean no one seems to be capable of playing for 90 mins, 20 mins of 'trying' is not good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 3 hours ago, nick76 said: No but Suso and team does most the scouting, analysis and guidance. Smith doesnt see players as often as old school managers and relies heavily on our recruitment team. Yes it's his fault as well but for me a lot of the burden is with Suso on recruitment. But again as I’ve said before Suso May have got the exact type of players Smith wanted in terms of specific skill set and characteristics to fit an ethos and game plan around. Suso May or May not be the issue but I can see glaring faults in the way we play and Smith as a manager and the way he sets his teams up. He just isn’t good enough for the Premier League based on the season we’ve had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Spoony said: What if he does keep us up? That’s the minimum (possibly even maximum) expectation right? With a squad as shit as ours (which isn’t actually Smith’s fault), it wouldn’t be a bad season just to stay in the league. Yes a decent achievement although I'd have liked us to have at least reached 40 points. The low bar for me is always 38 points given McLeish and Lambert staggered their way to that number with equally poor squads (McLeish a little better than what we have now but we had huge number of injuries in last 3 months). We have little chance of reaching that and are really just hoping now West Ham and Bournemouth will lose majority of their games and we'll find two shock wins from somewhere. Not even getting a point per game is always a poor season even if you stay up and would suggest there isn't much hope of improvement next season unless we get in 2-3 really good players in. Edited June 24, 2020 by VillaChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 52 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: So what you're really saying is bring Sherwood back in to save our season? or Alex McLeish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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