John McGinn

[VillanousOne]

1 hour ago, GingerCollins29 said:

Your agenda is ridiculous. Your last post claimed McGinn was one of the main reasons we have been passengers the last 18 months.

No criticism for anyone else though

it's sod's law though, he was more involved yesterday than he has been in months, if it wasn't for the slip I doubt anyone would be moaning.

doesn't hide the fact he has been woefully ineffective and inconsistent for large parts of the season, yesterday he played a deeper role which maybe suited him.

I love him and want him to do well, but he shouldn't be undroppable.

[GingerCollins29]

16 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

it's sod's law though, he was more involved yesterday than he has been in months, if it wasn't for the slip I doubt anyone would be moaning.

doesn't hide the fact he has been woefully ineffective and inconsistent for large parts of the season, yesterday he played a deeper role which maybe suited him.

I love him and want him to do well, but he shouldn't be undroppable.

I agree, has been inconsistent and poor too often. I'm not totally pro McGinn and see his limitations.

When I see another poster literally blaming him aa the main reason for our poor 18 months, I feel I have to stick up for him.

For me, there's too long a list of inconsistent players, making individual errors and giving the ball away. McGinn is in that list but not the worst of them.

Cash, Konsa, Mings, Doug, Ramsey, Buendia, Bailey, Traore and Watkins are all culpable. Yet McGinn is the one who takes the most flak. Why?

 

[GingerCollins29]

Just now, GingerCollins29 said:

I agree, has been inconsistent and poor too often. I'm not totally pro McGinn and see his limitations.

When I see another poster literally blaming him aa the main reason for our poor 18 months, I feel I have to stick up for him.

For me, there's too long a list of inconsistent players, making individual errors and giving the ball away. McGinn is in that list but not the worst of them.

Cash, Konsa, Mings, Doug, Ramsey, Buendia, Bailey, Traore and Watkins are all culpable. Yet McGinn is the one who takes the most flak. Why?

 

Add Ashley Young to that as well. I know he's 37, but he has become suicidal either his passing. No criticism though

[MotoMkali]

1 hour ago, GingerCollins29 said:

Your agenda is ridiculous. Your last post claimed McGinn was one of the main reasons we have been passengers the last 18 months.

No criticism for anyone else though

There is plenty of criticism to go around. But he's one of the main reasons. I'd say Watkins as well. But we don't have a better alternative imo whereas for McGinn we do. 

[david-avfc]

Our whole midfield and defence was an embarrassment yesterday. Maybe it’s tactics as much as it is individuals?

McGinn always puts in 100% and even when he isn’t on top form as per those stats he still wins tackles, works hard, gets all over the pitch, takes the ball on etc. 

McGinn is better when given licence to operate as a free box to box player. When he gets constrained that’s when his technical  limitations stand out.

Also not playing any recognised deep holding midfielder vs Wolves was a serious self inflicted shot in the foot tactically, hence why they all looked shit until Luiz came on.

[VillanousOne]

2 hours ago, GingerCollins29 said:

I agree, has been inconsistent and poor too often. I'm not totally pro McGinn and see his limitations.

When I see another poster literally blaming him aa the main reason for our poor 18 months, I feel I have to stick up for him.

For me, there's too long a list of inconsistent players, making individual errors and giving the ball away. McGinn is in that list but not the worst of them.

Cash, Konsa, Mings, Doug, Ramsey, Buendia, Bailey, Traore and Watkins are all culpable. Yet McGinn is the one who takes the most flak. Why?

 

Completely agree, not sure we've had one single player who has been consistent this season.

McGinn is definitely not the worst, I think he gets often unfair criticism as he never gets dropped for Dean or Gerrard, but that's not his fault. Two managers clearly see his value even if sometimes we as fans struggle.

It just smarts when Buendia who was pretty hot and cold at the start, starts to build up some form and consistency and gets dropped.

Chambers has surprisingly arguably been better than Konsa, but gets dropped.

Sanson who has done well in a number of cameos and appearances gets benched all the time and probably will vs Spurs despite being one of the better players yesterday, yes he made one stupid back pass (earlier in the season), but Mings, Konsa, McGinn, Young, Luiz and Cash have all made stupid errors leading to goals yet none of them get axed for it.

Ramsey has now become undroppable and while he has scored some awesome goals and looked super at times, his lack of experience and recent average form seems to just be ignored. He shouldn't be undroppable, when Chuk and Tim can't get a sniff.

Even with Bailey he needs a number of starts to build up a bit of form and consistency, no player can do that if constantly being in and our or reduced to 15 minute cameos, same with Traore. I know they haven't earned starts yet, but they never will if they don't get game time so it's the classic catch 22 of being a footballer in a high pressure results focused league.

But... we are already playing for pride as only way we will go at the moment is further down.

Also Coutinho has been excellent for about 3-4 games, the rest he has been awful. Not a terrible return as he's got some class goals and assists, but away from home he disappears.

Edited April 3, 2022 by VillanousOne

[GingerCollins29]

2 hours ago, MotoMkali said:

There is plenty of criticism to go around. But he's one of the main reasons. I'd say Watkins as well. But we don't have a better alternative imo whereas for McGinn we do. 

But there isn't though. Watkins has had criticism but McGinn's is constant. Attacking every aspect of his game to his weight. Unjustified in most respects. Look at the stats I posted for McGinn from Saturday. One of our best players statistically but he slipped so nothing else matters. Where's your criticism of Konsa  for the first goal? Or Young for the second? 

[MotoMkali]

53 minutes ago, GingerCollins29 said:

But there isn't though. Watkins has had criticism but McGinn's is constant. Attacking every aspect of his game to his weight. Unjustified in most respects. Look at the stats I posted for McGinn from Saturday. One of our best players statistically but he slipped so nothing else matters. Where's your criticism of Konsa  for the first goal? Or Young for the second? 

I've criticised konsa consistently.

Young is a backup player that's not comparable to a player who is guatanteed 90 every game. 

[VillaJay]

Puts in 100% and is obviously a good enough pl player, but of all our midfielders, Ramsay is a better footballer with a higher ceiling, Luiz is a better footballer, so is Sanson.

None of them, work harder than mcginn, but with our owners and expectations, we'll never finish higher than 10th with mcginn as our starting midfielder.

If we get a good offer, now is a prime time to sell, sentimentality will keep us mid table, where we are right now.

[GingerCollins29]

40 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

I've criticised konsa consistently.

Young is a backup player that's not comparable to a player who is guatanteed 90 every game. 

I mean, quick look through your last 15 posts and you mention mcginn six times and criticise no one else except Ross barkley.

You have a clear agenda against mcginn, even with stats put in front of you, you can't move away from it.

 

[GingerCollins29]

47 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

I've criticised konsa consistently.

Young is a backup player that's not comparable to a player who is guatanteed 90 every game. 

For your consistent criticism of Konsa, there's no evidence of it post match yesterday. Too busy slagging McGinn

[FLVillan]

New Member here, so forgive me if my post is covering old ground.  Let me start by saying I love John McGinn.  I think the debate around his ability at the level we want to reach is definitely a valid one though.  I think he's been kept in the team consistently because he's a leader by example in terms of his constant work-rate and level of energy.  I almost liken him to Des Bremner in that he never stops working for the team, but he's somewhat limited as a player.  Des was the quintessential Ron Saunders player, where work rate and energy were infectious. I would take a guess that the coaches value John McGinn a little higher than Mings, in that he is always at 100%, whereas Mings relies on his voice, but can be prone to lazy periods.  The other side of it is that his best period at the club saw him played alongside Grealish in that "two number 8's" role during the second half of the promotion season.  Bombing forward, causing mistakes high up the pitch and chipping in with goals.  Similar in many ways to the way Scotland use him.  But if you judge him on pure technical ability, he's simply not at the level of a Coutinho (or even Buendia).  With the way Gerrard is setting the team up I wonder if he'd be best deployed alongside Coutinho when we play with a lone striker.  That system hasn't worked with Coutinho/Buendia combination (largely because they keep taking up each others' space), so maybe McGinn alongside either of them would be better.

One final word about why I love the man.  When the 82 team recently did the unveiling of the plaques outside the ground, McGinn was the only member of the current team to take the time and come out and meet them at the ceremony/unveiling.  Respect! 

[Phil Silvers]

45m

[MWARLEY2]

Stick him in at left back. He will be sensational there . Seriously

[KAZZAM]

On 07/04/2022 at 19:37, MWARLEY2 said:

Stick him in at left back. He will be sensational there . Seriously

Bro Mcginn is terrible defensively you must be trolling. 

[TomC]

I don't think that his skill set works in a 4-3-3.

As I've said before, he's a box-to-box midfielder in the original sense, i.e. someone who can defend, who can score goals, but doesn't do much in between. You can't carry a player like that in a 3 man midfield, whether SG's 4-3-3 or Deano's 5-3-2 earlier this season. WIth only 3 midfielders, everyone has to be able to advance and pass the ball. Those aren't his strengths.

Similarly, although he's better suited to playing in the 2 in a 4-2-3-1, you have to pair him with the right partner...someone who likes to tackle and stay back (so they're still in place if McGinn goes forward) but who can distribute from deep (to make up for McGinn's passing deficiencies). The problem pairing him with Dougie in the 2 was that Dougie likes to get forward too.

I think he's best suited to a 4-4-2, and I don't see us playing that way any time soon.

 

[sne]

Stick him as one of the 10's in the Christmas tree formation. Preferably as a second half sub injection.

[avfc1982am]

Shocking. Can't pass for shit. Gives the ball away a ridiculous amount and his distribution is slow and telegraphed. 

[Wainy316]

His stock is still far higher than his ability.  Act now and sell!

[GingerCollins29]

12 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

Shocking. Can't pass for shit. Gives the ball away a ridiculous amount and his distribution is slow and telegraphed. 

Played some excellent passes today