John McGinn

[Stoobs]

Think UE will realise that SJM doesn’t have the ability at top level to play as a deep or even central lying midfielder but if there is a position for a player to play higher up park, timing runs into the box, pressing defenders, even if it is off the bench, then he is your man. More of an instinctive player than a technical one. Anyhoo, another wonderful goal for us. 

[villabromsgrove]

14 minutes ago, Stoobs said:

Another stunning international goal from SJM. 

Nice one John!

[Stoobs]

Belter to be fair……

 

[Delphinho123]

He can do that if he’s allowed to get forward. He’s much better facing the oppositions goal than he is facing his own goal. Just a reminder that Gerrard played him as a deep lying 8 who covered the full backs. Moron. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

What a goal! It was disappointing the amount of shit he got from fans over the last few months.  He’s practically one of our own!

[CVByrne]

3 minutes ago, Stoobs said:

Belter to be fair……

 

In an attacking role from wide midfield he'll do great

[est1874]

17 minutes ago, Stoobs said:

Belter to be fair……

 

MOMS said it so I'm sure SJM will listen and produce moving forward!

[BleedClaretAndBlue]

Two weeks under Emery and he’s like Bale at the San Siro

[AvonVillain]

Worth mentioning that SJM never once complained about being played out of position on such a regular basis.

[burchy]

Love him as a human being but he’s been victim of us playing him out of position, much like Luiz. Get him further forward and he can still do a job off the bench for us moving forward short/medium term. Longer term we need to replace him with a more technically gifted player IMHO

[Delphinho123]

Somebody said it in the Brighton friendly thread and it rings true. I think he’s a worse player now than when he joined. I genuinely do.

He looks unfit, slow, lethargic and doesn’t affect games at all really. He’s ok at running around and tackling people and I actually think he’s suited to seeing out games if we’re leading, but that aside, I think he’s regressed and he’ll be a bit part player from now on. Somebody we bring on with half hour left. 

I think he needs a move. Id be surprised if he wasn’t thinking the same. He has a value and I think we need to try and achieve that value in either Jan or the Summer. Whatever that figure is.

[Zhan_Zhuang]

Looks like he has fans in St. Moomin, probably his level.

Physically he is so round and unathletic compared to other players, that was one of my initial criticisms of him years ago and he's worse now.

[Tomaszk]

I don't know if he needs to speak to somebody or something, but a player's level shouldn't drop off like this aged 26-28.

He should go and watch videos of himself back in the championship.

He's got steadily worse since that ankle injury IMO. He really sticks out as a poor player now, and I think it has to be confidence above much else.

[MaVilla]

3 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

Somebody said it in the Brighton friendly thread and it rings true. I think he’s a worse player now than when he joined. I genuinely do.

1 hour ago, Tomaszk said:

I don't know if he needs to speak to somebody or something, but a player's level shouldn't drop off like this aged 26-28.

Honestly, i dont think he has "dropped off".

i think the problem is that our first 2 years or so in the PL, including the Championship, we played a bit more back to front, with lots of running around and chasing balls, with less expectation to retain the ball or progress the ball in a technical way.

I think in a direct back to front style of play he does ok as a no.8 or a no.10 as it suits his own style, as he is ok-ish in a few positions, where the players around him arent of a particularly high quality.

The other thing for me is that as:

1) We have slowly improved our players, McGiin was ok with poorer overall players as he could do a bit of this, or a bit of that to an "ok level", but now he isnt as good as a well rounded/specialist number 6 or 8. (Kamara/Luiz/Donk), as they can do what he does but much more also.

2) With the slowly improved players, he also isnt as good as our more specialist/technical 10's or forward line (Bailey, Coutinho, Buendia, Ramsey etc)

3) In a less quality team, he is a decent shout in a direct style for 6, 8 or 10, but not when you start to get some quality in those positions and start to play more technically.

4) added to point 1, 2 & 3, we are also now trying to play more technically, which is also now exposing his weaknesses that may not have been quite so obvious in a direct style with less high level competition for places, he isnt technically gifted at all, or overly intelligent on the ball, he actually hinders possession play imo.

 

So yeah, anways, i dont hink he has gotten "worse" as such, i just think as we have improved as a squad and are trying to play in a more technical/intelligent way, he is now competing for spots against well rounded players or specialists, his limitations are becoming more and more exposed, and his strengths less played to, which in turn makes him look "worse".

I do agree that he simply isnt a good enough player now for us.

Edited December 9, 2022 by MaVilla

[Delphinho123]

15 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

Honestly, i dont think he has "dropped off".

i think the problem is that our first 2 years or so in the PL, including the Championship, we played a bit more back to front, with lots of running around and chasing balls, with less expectation to retain the ball or progress the ball in a technical way.

I think in a direct back to front style of play he does ok as a no.8 or a no.10 as it suits his own style, as he is ok-ish in a few positions, where the players around him arent of a particularly high quality.

The other thing for me is that as:

1) We have slowly improved our players, McGiin was ok with poorer overall players as he could do a bit of this, or a bit of that to an "ok level", but now he isnt as good as a well rounded/specialist number 6 or 8. (Kamara/Luiz/Donk), as they can do what he does but much more also.

2) With the slowly improved players, he also isnt as good as our more specialist/technical 10's or forward line (Bailey, Coutinho, Buendia, Ramsey etc)

3) In a less quality team, he is a decent shout in a direct style for 6, 8 or 10, but not when you start to get some quality in those positions and start to play more technically.

4) added to point 1, 2 & 3, we are also now trying to play more technically, which is also now exposing his weaknesses that may not have been quite so obvious in a direct style with less high level competition for places, he isnt technically gifted at all, or overly intelligent on the ball, he actually hinders possession play imo.

 

So yeah, anways, i dont hink he has gotten "worse" as such, i just think as we have improved as a squad and are trying to play in a more technical/intelligent way, he is now competing for spots against well rounded players or specialists, his limitations are becoming more and more exposed, and his strengths less played to, which in turn makes him look "worse".

I do agree that he simply isnt a good enough player now for us.

Very good analysis and all fair points. You could be right. 

[rodders0223]

I watched the bleep test video and whilst you can't see the results it looks like he went deep into the later stages.

It sums him up in a variety of ways, he was clearly trying harder than most to achieve it, and showed great character and professionalism in that regard but the actually of the running for a sportsman, the gait and the mobility was absolutely horrific.

So on one hand, brilliant, he's trying hard and his character sees him through but then on the other side there's no quality to it and he looks absolute miles off a PL athlete.

[MotoMkali]

On 09/12/2022 at 10:15, Tomaszk said:

I don't know if he needs to speak to somebody or something, but a player's level shouldn't drop off like this aged 26-28.

He should go and watch videos of himself back in the championship.

He's got steadily worse since that ankle injury IMO. He really sticks out as a poor player now, and I think it has to be confidence above much else.

Ankle injuries some times completely Sap athleticism. Remember his recovery was delayed because he had ligament damage. 

[MotoMkali]

On 09/12/2022 at 14:38, rodders0223 said:

I watched the bleep test video and whilst you can't see the results it looks like he went deep into the later stages.

It sums him up in a variety of ways, he was clearly trying harder than most to achieve it, and showed great character and professionalism in that regard but the actually of the running for a sportsman, the gait and the mobility was absolutely horrific.

So on one hand, brilliant, he's trying hard and his character sees him through but then on the other side there's no quality to it and he looks absolute miles off a PL athlete.

Yeah exactly if you need a player to move around at a lethargic trot and occasionally aimlessly sprint 30 yards with no hope of winning the ball he's your man. 

[Mark Albrighton]

Getting hitched.

Congratulations to Mr and (soon to be) Mrs McGinn.

[rjw63]

On 09/12/2022 at 08:40, Zhan_Zhuang said:

Looks like he has fans in St. Moomin, probably his level.