hippo Posted June 10, 2018 Author Share Posted June 10, 2018 After the week from hell , this is my thoughts as to where we are:- Dr Tony warns the financial situations isn't great Aston Villa are warned ny HMRC to pay a tax bill or face a winding up order - Wyness suspened A few days of insider leaks and press speculation that Aston Villa are one the edge Some number crunching by VTers on here - suggests while the situation isn't great - the splurge on loans\ wages shouldn't leave us on the brink of administration as it was funded by player sales So a few theories -The press got a whiff of a story and bigged it out all proportion - and whilst the siuation isn't great - it isn't bankruptcy bad -Or Maybe there are some unknowns in accounts yet to be published (maybe Xia is funding us via high % loans) which make our situation as bad as reported. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sne Posted June 11, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 11, 2018 (edited) A bunch of interesting articles on MOMS. This one mirrors pretty much exactly what I've felt from the beginning under Xia, Wyness and Round. Quote ‘VILLA’S BOARD HAVE ATTEMPTED TO BUY A TEAM RATHER THAN BUILD A TEAM’. Difference In the build up to the playoff final, former Hull City and Fulham player Sone Aluko was asked by Sky Sports to explain how Steve Bruce and Slaviša Jokanović differed from each other as managers. Aluko cited Jokanovic’s attention to detail and described how the Serbian manager would be reasonably quiet on match days, as his preparation had been done during the week. In contrast, Aluko recalled that Steve Bruce would be amongst his players motivating, cajoling and firing them up in the run up to kick off. Two different managers then, two different clubs and two very different approaches. Championship Strategy Aston Villa’s CEO Keith Wyness oversaw a transfer policy in the summer of 2016 which largely focused on bringing experienced players to the club who preferably had won promotion before. During the winter transfer window, the strategy changed under Steve Bruce who concentrated on mainly signing players who had done well in the Championship that season. Conor Hourihane had made 11 assists and scored 6 goals for Barnsley, Scott Hogan had scored 14 goals for Brentford and Henri Lansbury had scored 6 goals and made 3 assists for Nottingham Forest. In total, Mile Jedinak, Tommy Elphick, James Chester, Albert Adomah, Ross McCormack, Aaron Tshibola, Pierluigi Gollini, Jonathan Kodjia, Ritchie De Laet, Henri Lansbury, Conor Hourihane, Neil Taylor, Scott Hogan, James Bree, Sam Johnstone, Jacob Bedeau and Birkir Bjarnason all arrived at the club during the 2016/17 season. Nine signings made by Roberto Di Matteo and eight signings made by Steve Bruce. Short-term Overspend Aston Villa’s £88m transfer spend in the 2016/17 season (according to Swiss Ramble) was the most ever spent by a Championship club in one season. Out of 24 teams, Villa’s transfer spend was responsible for over 25% of all money spent that season in the Championship (according to Kieran Maguire, football finance expert). In an interview held with the Birmingham Mail in February 2017, Wyness explained the thinking behind such an unprecedented outlay, “Money has never been the key factor. We want to get the right squad balance. We did a lot more work in January than we expected to. The summer is going to be relatively quiet. There will be ins and outs but nowhere near as many as we have in the last two windows.” Following Wyness’s assertion that the club would have a relatively quiet summer, stories then emerged in May 2017 (Neil Moxley, Sunday People) that manager Steve Bruce was stunned to learn that he only had a summer budget of £1m to spend because of Financial Fair Play (he spent £2.5m on transfers fees, excluding loan fees in summer 2017). ‘THROWING MONEY AT A TEAM DOESN’T WORK IF YOU FAIL TO BUILD PROPERLY AND FAIL TO COACH SOLUTIONS RATHER THAN JUST SPENDING AND SPENDING’ It was not altogether surprising that the club were looking to have a quiet summer after bringing 17 new players to the club in 2016/17. Nevertheless, the club then invested in eight more players after signing Glenn Whelan (34) from Stoke, Elmohamady (30) from Hull, loan signings Axel Tuanzebe (20), Robert Snodgrass (30), Sam Johnstone (25), Josh Onomah (20), Lewis Grabban (30) and the free agent signings of John Terry (37) and Chris Samba (34). In two Championship seasons therefore, Villa have signed 25 different players and achieved a 13thplace and 4thplace finish (losing out in the play-off final to Fulham). Villa’s wage bill stood at £61m in 2016/17, which was only smaller than Newcastle United who had failed to insert relegation clauses into the contracts of players like Jonjo Shelvey. Aston Villa’s new transfer strategy in the summer of 2017 was to focus on ‘experience and steel’ according to manager Steve Bruce. CEO Wyness further explained, “We need ‘men’ in the team who understand what the Championship is about. We need that stability and fight and desire and the players we’re looking at this summer have that in abundance.” Bruce also commented on the squad’s experience: “I think we’ve got the right experience – we’ve certainly picked players who can handle playing for Aston Villa and hopefully their experience will get us over the line and where we want to be.” Worrying Comparisons Somewhat reminiscent of QPR’s Championship project under Tony Fernandes, a lot of Aston Villa’s money has been spent on a number of ageing players that have failed to deliver promotion – and who in many cases have negligible resale value. Bruce was prickly ahead of the 2017/18 season following jibes from fans about ‘Dad’s Army’. He commented: “I’d love to be signing 26-year-olds. People are saying we’re Dad’s Army. But players are £15m to sign and fortunes in wages. We have had to be a bit shrewd.” The Aston Villa manager seemed to have forgotten that he had already bought several players in their mid-twenties in the January 2017 transfer window at a cost of £23m such as Hourihane, Lansbury, Neil Taylor and Hogan and was expected to get those signings going in pre-season. Bruce either failed to get most of his January 2017 signings going in pre-season or seemed to lose trust in them after only a few months. Hourihane was the only permanent signing from Bruce’s January 2017 rebuild who started the playoff final against Fulham last week. Furthermore, Kieran Maguire (football finance expert) explained this week that players like Hogan have been given “eye-watering contracts” (Hogan reportedly on £40k-a-week). Whilst Lansbury, Hogan, Neil Taylor and James Bree were all given four-and-half year contracts despite the fact that many of those players would have struggled to make the step up to the Premier League in the event of promotion. Poor Foundations Like Aston Villa, QPR went on a spending spree when Tony Fernandes bought the club and brought in 25 players in two seasons like Villa have done. QPR managed to limp up to the Premier League after a fourth-place finish in the Championship in the 2013/14 season, which Villa in contrast failed to do despite spending record sums. QPR were subsequently relegated from the Premier League the following season after finishing in 20thplace. This demonstrates that just throwing money at a team doesn’t work if you fail to build properly and fail to coach solutions rather than just spending and spending and bringing in more and more players. It’s not unfair to say therefore that Aston Villa’s Championship strategy has been even worse than QPR’s from 2012 – 2014 considering the club have failed to achieve promotion. Those of us who have been critical of Aston Villa’s Championship strategy have sadly been vindicated. Villa’s board have attempted to buy a team rather than build a team. False Starts Bruce started the season as badly as Roberto Di Matteo had in the 2016/17 season. The team continued to lack an identity with Scott Hogan (a £9m signing of Bruce’s) in particular looking lost. Embed from Getty Images In the first match of the 2017/18 campaign against Hull, Bruce chose a line-up containing Gabby Agbonlahor, Alan Hutton and Leandro Bacuna. Conor Hourihane was on the bench and Albert Adomah was not in the squad and failed to start the first seven games of the season (despite finishing the season as top goal scorer). From Bruce’s first line-up of the season, Agbonlahor ended the season with only two starts and four substitute appearances, Bacuna was sold to Reading, Neil Taylor was later dropped for Alan Hutton, Henri Lansbury only made five more starts and Elmohamady was moved from right-wing to right-back. Pre-season, therefore, appeared to be something of a waste of time where no starting line-up was settled upon and no identity of play emerged. Rethink Bruce’s experienced signings were expected to get the team ‘over the line’ and hold their nerve in crucial moments of the season but this also didn’t happen. Whenever the team encountered fixture congestion, results dipped and the older players struggled to cope. In the crucial run in after beating Wolves, bad form again emerged as players were not rotated regularly and Bruce admitted he had got his selections wrong, especially after losing at home 1-3 to Ian Holloway’s QPR. In a bitter sense of irony, the playoff final saw Steve Bruce’s experienced Aston Villa team face Slaviša Jokanović’s more youthful Fulham side. The winning goal came from a teenager, Ryan Sessegnon, who created the goal for Tom Cairney (who Bruce had previously sold from Hull’s academy having never given Cairney a chance to play for Hull’s senior team). A rethink is therefore needed ahead of the 2018/19 Championship season. A lot more should be expected from a club that spent £90m in the Championship than just an improved team spirit and players ‘wearing the shirt with pride’. https://www.myoldmansaid.com/aston-villas-flawed-and-wasteful-championship-strategy-analysed/ Edited June 11, 2018 by sne 5 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Another one Quote Aston Villa Issue Statement on Tax Issues & Basically Admit to Lack of Existing Plan HRMC Aston Villa today put out a short statement today (below) to say that it has at least come to an ‘agreement’ with HRMC to ease the growing concerns of the potential penalties of the club not meeting its tax requirements. The statement below concludes with the chairman Tony Xia wanting to reassure supporters that ‘plans are now being put in place to move the club forward’. Aston Villa Tax Statement Aston Villa Football Club can confirm that an agreement has been reached with HMRC and the club will continue to fulfil its obligations. The club can also announce that there are no insolvency practitioners or administration advisors working with the club. Owner and Chairman Dr Tony Xia would like to take this opportunity to sincerely thank supporters during this difficult and unsettling time and reassure them plans are now being put in place to move the club forward. No Plan B Reality Lets repeat that again, ‘plans are now being put in place’. Only now? Didn’t they have any plans after two seasons, if they didn’t get promoted? The League – as part of the ‘fit and proper persons test’ – requires proof from the buying body that funds are in place to sustain a club for a minimum of two years. It would seem that Xia and his team, presented the English footballing bodies with the bare minimum period of projected funds/accounts. Considering this is a two-year period that a club freshly relegated to the Championship receives substantial parachute payments, it allows for opportunist buying (which MOMS suggested the Villa purchase was, over two years ago) – essentially a gamble to get the club back into the Premier League in those two years by using (or at least being aided by) the parachute money. This of course very much spells danger in the long-run for any club overloaded with a high wage bill, if it fail to win promotion. Certainly the period over which funds need to be proven to cover, should be extended by the PL & EFL in such cases. When MOMS and the Fan Consultation Group first met Tony Xia and then the Villa CEO Keith Wyness, back in 2016, this is how Wyness answered the following question on the kind of funding they were offering the club: 1. With conflicting reports during the takeover, and without in any way expecting to breach any individual’s privacy, what sort of funding is there now for Aston Villa? It was confirmed by Keith Wyness that adequate funding is in place and there are several different plans depending on where the club finds itself over the coming season/s. It was a requirement by the League that funds are available to sustain the club for a minimum of two years. Meeting this requirement was achieved with ease. Any suggestions to the contrary or regarding lack of funds during the takeover were simply rumours created by a rival bidder for the club. It was also confirmed that we are working within the Financial Fair Play stipulations and expanding the club’s interests internationally will help this. ‘Several different plans’, that don’t seem to have covered the present situation, and when you consider some of the wage spend and contracts, it’s hard to believe such plans existed at all. https://www.myoldmansaid.com/aston-villa-issue-statement-on-tax-issues-basically-admit-to-lack-of-existing-plan/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 According to the Telegraph article Quote This month’s pay roll bill of £4.5m, comprising tax and wages, is also due on or around June 22 and Xia must pay that or face the prospect of another winding-up order. So that’s a date for the diary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, sne said: A bunch of interesting articles on MOMS. This one mirrors pretty much exactly what I've felt from the beginning under Xia, Wyness and Round. https://www.myoldmansaid.com/aston-villas-flawed-and-wasteful-championship-strategy-analysed/ Excellent article. With wyness gone we should also be looking to move on from bruce. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEgo Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 On 09/06/2018 at 22:01, hippo said: The club statement denied Trevor Birch was involved. Neither has been good guys for us. Xia told us he had millions set aside to finance villa - Wyness believed him and went full pelt for promotion at any cost. Too many wrongs with that approach. A bit of research has led me to wonder whether recon are just a glorified holding company - the people who really own us are chinese banks. I think Xias damage done to Aston Villa hasn't reached bottom yet - and with between £70-100m debt the people who take on are likley to be more of Xias kind. It's not even Recon that own us, technically it's Teamax or rather Tian Xia Tech info ltd (info from @Deisler123) and we know none of the people behind Teamax and who is funding the businesses above these in the conglomerate. It's all super confusing, but then again, that isn't totally unique to Xia, it would appear this is how many Chinese companies operate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macandally Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 A lot of people on here stated the same as those articles 18 months ago. Just poor judgement and planning by the club and as stated previously Round and the other dinosaurs should be out the door if we can afford it. Build properly and for the long term, no more short sighted opportunist ctrap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Villa feel like one of those historic grand country houses. They look great from the outside but there is no furniture or fitting inside, as some reckless predecessor had gambled the family fortune away. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan_of_oz Posted June 11, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 11, 2018 (edited) My wife said to me last night, 'let's pick a new Netflix show to watch....... something dramatic but with some comedy, but something unpredictable that you never know what's going to happen next' She is now a AV supporter! Edited June 12, 2018 by Villan_of_oz 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 10 hours ago, The Fun Factory said: Villa feel like one of those historic grand country houses. They look great from the outside but there is no furniture or fitting inside, as some reckless predecessor had gambled the family fortune away. It's a gold medal to you for a first time ever National Trust analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 12, 2018 Author Share Posted June 12, 2018 Remember that Live aid concert years ago ? - it raised millions ......couldn't we do 'Villa Aid' - we have the stadium, we could bung , the who , robbie williams, and Beyonce a couple of quid and free pie - selling the tickets @ £250 - plus tv rights - we would be sorted...... I think I am wasted on here ! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 12, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 12, 2018 1 minute ago, hippo said: Remember that Live aid concert years ago ? - it raised millions ......couldn't we do 'Villa Aid' - we have the stadium, we could bung , the who , robbie williams, and Beyonce a couple of quid and free pie - selling the tickets @ £250 - plus tv rights - we would be sorted...... I think I am wasted on here ! I can see it now, Ozzy Osborne shouting into the Camera. "Just give us your F*****g Money" 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 12 hours ago, Jareth said: It's a gold medal to you for a first time ever National Trust analogy. Well no its not the national trust- as that is an organisation that actually looks after its property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, hippo said: Remember that Live aid concert years ago ? - it raised millions ......couldn't we do 'Villa Aid' - we have the stadium, we could bung , the who , robbie williams, and Beyonce a couple of quid and free pie - selling the tickets @ £250 - plus tv rights - we would be sorted...... I think I am wasted on here ! Going by your first line, I think you must be wasted - full stop. Edited June 12, 2018 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 I wonder if for the long term the best thing that could happen is we go in to Adminstation and then get taken over. Start a fresh from League one like Palace and Southampton did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 On 11/06/2018 at 12:44, sne said: A bunch of interesting articles on MOMS. This one mirrors pretty much exactly what I've felt from the beginning under Xia, Wyness and Round. https://www.myoldmansaid.com/aston-villas-flawed-and-wasteful-championship-strategy-analysed/ A good read. We messed up from Xia, Wyness, RDM to Bruce. All of them were responsible for the mess we are in. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 I draw parallel's between being an Aston Villa fan and Inferno Dante Alighieri's 14th-century epic poem Divine Comedy. Were currently all on a journey together navigating the 9 circles of hell. We have already passed Limbo, Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Wrath, Heresy and violence. Fraud was next followed by Treachery we all know how Dr Tony has turned out along with Wyness. Next up is the centre of hell where were completely flat broke and doug repurchases us for a pound. He was playing the long game all along. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 12, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 12, 2018 42 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I wonder if for the long term the best thing that could happen is we go in to Adminstation and then get taken over. Start a fresh from League one like Palace and Southampton did. Yes, just like getting relegated to The Championship would be a great idea so we could regroup and rebuild and win lots of matches for a change. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Think this is very necessary, one way or another it needs to be cleared up pronto: Aston Villa are set for talks with the Football League next week as fears grow over the Championship club's finances. Shaun Harvey, the EFL’s chief executive, is scheduled to meet with Villa officials in a bid to discover the club’s future plans following failure to win promotion to the Premier League. It is understood Harvey will request a broad business plan for next season and proof the club can fulfil its financial obligations. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/06/12/aston-villa-meet-football-league-fears-grow-clubs-finances/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Well that sounds like we've got everything under control then. Still not at all convinced I'll have a football club to support when the season starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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