The Video Assistant Referee (VAR)

[bobzy]

4 minutes ago, a-k said:

 

Why not? If the rule is the rule, as others have said, why isn't it a pen? It's struck his arm in the red zone and his arm was extended away from his body. According to the rule, that's a pen.

  

But that's the point. Why was the pen for the foul on Trez by March overruled as being a clear and obvious error? There was contact and you can see why that pen was given. So, why was that overturned?

I don’t think that arm is unnatural at all. It also came off someone’s head on to his arm. I’d be absolutely fuming if that was given as a pen against us. 
 

Second one - they determined that the defender had played the ball which would make the tackle legitimate. There’s no such clouding judgment in the game last night. They’re very different situations.

[StefanAVFC]

Ah right, the ball bouncing up and incidentally hitting a defenders leg is playing the ball. 

You are michael oliver and I claim my 10 quid. 

[penguin]

United literally had a game restarted after the final whistle to have a penalty for a Maupay handball yet a potential handball which would be in our favour, especially in the current climate, isn’t even acknowledged. I have no doubt if it’s the other way around and they are chasing an equaliser that that’s looked at for 2+ minutes from every conceivable angle before most likely eventually being given.

33 penalties in 59 games for United says it all. “Clear and obvious” isn’t applied consistently, at all, just look at our overturned decision in the Brighton game... Referees seem extremely quick to award them anything, look how fast he blew yesterday and that disgraceful decision to award Fernandes penalty last season both decisions not corrected, and they can then hide behind the “clear and obvious” criteria as to why it stands.

[bobzy]

Just now, StefanAVFC said:

Ah right, the ball bouncing up and incidentally hitting a defenders leg is playing the ball. 

You are michael oliver and I claim my 10 quid. 

Yes, that’s exactly what I said. 

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, bobzy said:

Yes, that’s exactly what I said. 

I'm being facetious, but the lack of consistency by the same ref (supposedly our best) is massively alarming. 

As for the conspiracy angle, I doubt it but as @villa4europe says, you hope it is, as the alternative is the entire apparatus is not fit for purpose. 

Lack of accountability, transparency, unbelievable arrogance and the lowest standards ever seen is a huge recipe for disaster and I wouldn't be surprised if it all blew up soon. 

[Mantis]

16 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Referees getting things wrong is nothing new. I think VAR has made it worse because they review super slow-mo clips (I don’t think that’s a benefit) and therefore make really marginal calls. Certainly nothing that points towards corruption. 
 

For example, yesterday, I don’t think that’s a penalty but I also don’t think it’s a “clear and obvious” error. There’s contact and you can see why it was given.

No it isn't new, but they're now regularly getting things clearly wrong even with the benefit of replays, and that's in addition to the constant inconsistency. At the very least it's gross incompetence.

[bobzy]

4 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

I'm being facetious, but the lack of consistency by the same ref (supposedly our best) is massively alarming. 

As for the conspiracy angle, I doubt it but as @villa4europe says, you hope it is, as the alternative is the entire apparatus is not fit for purpose. 

Lack of accountability, transparency, unbelievable arrogance and the lowest standards ever seen is a huge recipe for disaster and I wouldn't be surprised if it all blew up soon. 

It’s just people making mistakes because they’re applying things in a ridiculous manner. The only corruption that I think may be apparent is the Premier League sabotaging VAR to make it deliberately shit so it can be scrapped. At least, I thought that previously but not so much anymore. 
 

If you take the penalty decision last night, it’s pretty much 50/50 at to whether fans think it was correctly given as a penalty. That isn’t a huge mistake. Similar was true of the Brighton penalty. For me, neither should be overturned - that’s VAR being used poorly. However, if you ask different people (inc refs) to judge each situation, they will likely come up with different interpretations. So if you introduce a VAR review on such tight calls, you will get “wrong” opinions and “inconsistencies”. 

Edited January 2, 2021 by bobzy

[sharkyvilla]

I try to look at decisions and think if it was us, how would I feel.  I'd have been very pissed off if the penalty had been down our end and it was overturned, I think Doug was unlucky but he got a bit too close and there was a tangle of legs.  I don't think Pogba tried initiating anything.  The handball, I don't think it was a handball but there doesn't seem to have been much consistency in those decisions across the board. 

Going back to the Trez penalty I've said before that if Oliver gave the penalty because he didn't see the defender touched the ball but then saw that he did on replay then I can see why he thought it was a clear and obvious error and changed his mind.  What I think would improve things is if you can hear the conversation between the ref and the VAR like in other sports but they would have to find a way of filtering out all the swearing by players in order to get it on TV.  I suppose you can at least have what the VAR is saying while he is looking at the incident without the ref's input like in cricket.

[TrentVilla]

1 minute ago, sharkyvilla said:

I try to look at decisions and think if it was us, how would I feel.  I'd have been very pissed off if the penalty had been down our end and it was overturned, I think Doug was unlucky but he got a bit too close and there was a tangle of legs.  I don't think Pogba tried initiating anything.  The handball, I don't think it was a handball but there doesn't seem to have been much consistency in those decisions across the board. 

Going back to the Trez penalty I've said before that if Oliver gave the penalty because he didn't see the defender touched the ball but then saw that he did on replay then I can see why he thought it was a clear and obvious error and changed his mind.  What I think would improve things is if you can hear the conversation between the ref and the VAR like in other sports but they would have to find a way of filtering out all the swearing by players in order to get it on TV.  I suppose you can at least have what the VAR is saying while he is looking at the incident without the ref's input like in cricket.

Two mins before Pogba told a team mate to go down. Then he intentionally clips Luiz and goes down. Never a pen.

[tom_avfc]

5 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Two mins before Pogba told a team mate to go down. Then he intentionally clips Luiz and goes down. Never a pen.

Yeah this is how I saw it too. In fact I find it difficult to see how anybody doesn’t believe that Pogba has deliberately kicked Luiz in the first place here. Luiz has tried to run alongside Pogba who then kicks his left leg out unnaturally to clip Luiz and go down. There’s absolutely no challenge made by Luiz. 

My real issue is that VAR isn’t improving the consistency of these decisions at all. If that was the exact same incident but in the other box I don’t think we would get the penalty for it. If anything VAR is making this worse as it’s finding reasons to chalk off goals and award penalties and red cards with the majority still going in favour of the bigger clubs.

[TrentVilla]

5 minutes ago, tom_avfc said:

Yeah this is how I saw it too. In fact I find it difficult to see how anybody doesn’t believe that Pogba has deliberately kicked Luiz in the first place here. Luiz has tried to run alongside Pogba who then kicks his left leg out unnaturally to clip Luiz and go down. There’s absolutely no challenge made by Luiz. 

My real issue is that VAR isn’t improving the consistency of these decisions at all. If that was the exact same incident but in the other box I don’t think we would get the penalty for it. If anything VAR is making this worse as it’s finding reasons to chalk off goals and award penalties and red cards with the majority still going in favour of the bigger clubs.

That later point was always my concern with it, there is a bias in how it’s used where they either look for a reason to allow or disallow. I honestly feel the integrity of the game is in question at the moment and I’ve never felt that way before.

[villa4europe]

1 hour ago, bobzy said:

I don’t think we’re kicking up anywhere near such a fuss if a penalty is given in favour of us in that situation.

Who is the “they” who are so inept? What have they got so wrong that it makes you think it’s corruption?

PMGOL

And do you need a list of ref mistakes in the last year? Because it'll be a long list... 

[TrentVilla]

1 hour ago, bobzy said:

It’s just people making mistakes because they’re applying things in a ridiculous manner. The only corruption that I think may be apparent is the Premier League sabotaging VAR to make it deliberately shit so it can be scrapped. At least, I thought that previously but not so much anymore. 
 

If you take the penalty decision last night, it’s pretty much 50/50 at to whether fans think it was correctly given as a penalty. That isn’t a huge mistake. Similar was true of the Brighton penalty. For me, neither should be overturned - that’s VAR being used poorly. However, if you ask different people (inc refs) to judge each situation, they will likely come up with different interpretations. So if you introduce a VAR review on such tight calls, you will get “wrong” opinions and “inconsistencies”. 

I’m yet to find a non Man United fan who thought it was a penalty.

[sidcow]

Spurs penalty definitely outside the box for me

Given as a penalty obviously. 

[Rino8]

If something 'could' be a penalty its basically a given now.

Makes it more interesting doesn't it? Gooooals.

[Genie]

Legs collide, player goes down. It’s a foul nowadays. The refs / VAR are not clever or brave enough to determine that it was orchestrated by the attacker. Jack has done it 100x in the past 2 years.

[sne]

Douglas Luiz and Emi Martinez both openly criticizing VAR on social media after the pen yesterday. Fully expect them to be fined or suspended.

 

[Genie]

Players have got very good at initiating contact and making it look like a foul. Maybe awarding an indirect free kick instead of a penalty would help with “fouls” in the box? I can’t see a way that the refs can look at most of these and confidently determine if it was a foul or a robbery. 

[fightoffyour]

2 hours ago, bobzy said:

Sorry, but this is bollocks. 

No it isn’t, there’s an example of the same referee doing literally that in one of our recent matches.

2 hours ago, bobzy said:

I don’t think we’re kicking up anywhere near such a fuss if a penalty is given in favour of us in that situation.

Obviously we wouldn’t be kicking up a fuss but I’d bet most people would be willing to admit it shouldn’t have been a penalty, or at best very soft.

2 hours ago, bobzy said:

To be honest, it’s just not handball anyway. 

In the current rules it is, and much, much softer ones were given plentifully earlier in the season. If you think that it shouldn’t be handball in the rules then fair enough, I’d be inclined to agree, but the current rules should be implemented.

[The_Steve]

Again. How is VAR taking such little time but wasting minutes measuring sleeve length and armpit offsides?