The Video Assistant Referee (VAR)

[bannedfromHandV]

3 hours ago, blunther said:

They get 'lucky' every match... How isn't that corrupt? It's not this one debatable penalty in isolation, it's that refs are looking for any excuse to give Man United an advantage over time. 

Man United are the Premier League's biggest brand. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that they want their biggest brand toward the top so they can sell more of their 'product' to Man U 'fans' elsewhere in the world. 

Imagine how much interest a title battle between Man U and Liverpool will generate abroad. Wrestling has shown us that even choreographed 'sport' can bring in plenty of money. That's all it's about for those in charge. Money. 

Yep, anyone who thinks this hasn’t at least crossed the minds of the PL bigwigs must be naive. 

I hate any possibility for artificial intervention and this is 100% that. It is possible to manufacture results toward a certain end goal.  

I’m not saying it is happening right now but it definitely could happen, and if it can happen it will happen eventually.

[tom_avfc]

3 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Yep, anyone who thinks this hasn’t at least crossed the minds of the PL bigwigs must be naive. 

I hate any possibility for artificial intervention and this is 100% that. It is possible to manufacture results toward a certain end goal.  

I’m not saying it is happening right now but it definitely could happen, and if it can happen it will happen eventually.

I actually think VAR is highlighting an issue that has existed for a long time. The bias (conscious or unconscious) towards big teams and United in particular has been evident from every game that we play against them.

VAR gives them the opportunity to correct this but in reality it’s being used to reinforce this bias at present. It’s easy to chalk it down to referee mistakes in the past without the technology.

I think the issue is easy to highlight when you see some of the penalties being awarded and confirmed by VAR to United in particular. Whether this leads to an improvement in decision making going forward I guess is the real issue.

[danceoftheshamen]

6 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Yep, anyone who thinks this hasn’t at least crossed the minds of the PL bigwigs must be naive. 

I hate any possibility for artificial intervention and this is 100% that. It is possible to manufacture results toward a certain end goal.  

I’m not saying it is happening right now but it definitely could happen, and if it can happen it will happen eventually.

Personally i think it's been happeneing for decades. I remember a game at Villa Park against UTD when GOD (Paul McGrath) was playing, he headed at goal and the ball was stopped on the line by a United arm clear as day with the ref looking right at it... i never could understand why he didn't give us the Penalty. We have all seen the ridiculous number of odd decisions over many years nearly always for the same few clubs especially Man U, Liverpool and a definate edge towards the big London clubs too.

VAR actually highlights the evidence for me. Think about it, the only way to have such technology and still manipulate results would be to create blurred lines and doubt about the rules and not answer questions or give blarney / confusing replies to them. All of this is happening week in week out as are the constant & very odd new "rules" which keep coming in, including reinventing the human body with arms which have now apparently lost their top part. This does nothing more than allow room for error as obviously even TV camera's will struggle to distinguish where this ridiculous line of the new human arm actually is. Players have different lengths & circumferences to their arms so the mysterious "Tee-Shirt" line is absolutley ridiculous and harder to define than a shoulder. 

VAR should be so simple & clear to use, just look at rugby. It was brought in for clear & obvious errors surrounding Red cards, Penalties, goals & offsides and yet it swings from one rule to another depending on who the decision is for or against. Odd.

How is any of that "clear & obvious" exactly? It would not be difficult to introduce new clear & obvious rules which everyone could see & understand. The fact they instead make the waters more murky instead says it all to me. The way these decisions are clearly bending towards certain clubs is the final fact needed to formulate the fury, suspiciion and bemusement i/we feel every week practically. 

Man Utd have not played well for a couple of years now and yet 33 penalties for to 7 against during the last season & a half! Countless ones of those have been dodgy too. How many exactly i wouldn't know but i so wish someone reputable would do a full study of it all... Please though nobody in the slightest bit related to the FA or football in general as how would you trust those findings?

[StefanAVFC]

Yeah the rugby example keeps coming up and it makes a lot of sense.  They dont draw lines to check for forward passes. Eye test and that's it. 

And that's the same black and white rule as offside. It's either forward or it's not  

Edited January 3, 2021 by StefanAVFC

[gilbertoAVFC]

People talk about club bias in various threads but there could be something far more sinister at play imo.

Each Prem game has billions wagered on it across the world, with the majority in Asia through an agent system which allows for anonymous wagering and extremely high stake limits.

I'm not saying the officials are favouring certain clubs due to their own preferences, but favourable marginal calls can give bettors an "edge" they can only dream of. Some of things I've seen this season from Coote and others have just been mind-bogglingly inconsitent/s**t.

The players are paid millions, the refs are not. I know it's a conspiracy theory but it's not as if it hasn't happened in Italy. I wonder if people really believe referees in this country are un-corruptable just because it hasn't happened before. You can drip feed millions into a market on a game and it would go undetected in terms of the odds changes. Obviously you can't do that in the Albanian league where corruption is rife and you clearly see the volatility, making the fix extremely obvious.

So much money at play in these games, Asian bookies sponsoring everything. More questions should be asked.

Edited January 4, 2021 by gilbertoAVFC

[sne]

8 minutes ago, gilbertoAVFC said:

People talk about club bias in various threads but there could be something far more sinister at play imo.

Each Prem game has billions wagered on it across the world, with the majority in Asia through an agent system which allows for anonymous wagering and extremely high stake limits.

I'm not saying the officials are favouring certain clubs due to their own preferences, but favourable marginal calls can give bettors an "edge" they can only dream of. Some of things I've seen this season from Coote and others have just been mind-bogglingly inconsitent/s**t.

The players are paid millions, the refs are not. I know it's a conspiracy theory but it's not as if it hasn't happened in Italy. I wonder if people really believe referees in this country are un-corruptable just because it hasn't happened before. You can drip feed millions into a market on a game and it would go undetected in terms of the odds changes. Obviously you can't do that in the Albanian league where corruption is rife and you clearly see the volatility, making the fix extremely obvious.

So much money at play in these games, Asian bookies sponsoring everything. More questions should be asked.

Yeah, mentioned a bunch of times I'm fairly convinced that one or more refs and VAR officials are on the payroll from betting syndicates. It happens in tons of places and leagues, Sweden for example. But I don't think there is a organized structure to favor any certain club, that would be more down to personal bias from the refs.

[BG_Villa_Fan]

Don't think there's an outright malicious intent behind favoring the big clubs but a combination of personal biases, pressure and just the natural inclination of leagues to promote their biggest clubs with the biggest fanbases, compared to smaller ones. Everybody wants to watch Man U and Liverpool fighting for the championship as opposed to Leicester or even Tottenham. It's just a better product business wise.

When asked about which teams he'd want in the NBA finals former commissioner David Stern once famously said Lakers vs Lakers. Such biases exist everywhere.

[Genie]

With bigger/high profile clubs like United any decisions against them which are contentious will have a big spotlight put on them by the media and questions asked of the officials.

For that reason they’ll always get the benefit of any doubt. 

[Zatman]

1 hour ago, BG_Villa_Fan said:

Don't think there's an outright malicious intent behind favoring the big clubs but a combination of personal biases, pressure and just the natural inclination of leagues to promote their biggest clubs with the biggest fanbases, compared to smaller ones. Everybody wants to watch Man U and Liverpool fighting for the championship as opposed to Leicester or even Tottenham. It's just a better product business wise.

When asked about which teams he'd want in the NBA finals former commissioner David Stern once famously said Lakers vs Lakers. Such biases exist everywhere.

UEFA I bet are still killing themselves that around 09-14 they couldnt get that El Clasico final, was one or 2 times they were both in the semi finals and separated

[YouUnastanFren]

Mane just had what was in essence a very similar appeal to Pogba's against us. KWP leg already planted and Mane trips over the back of it and goes down.

If VAR isn't going to enforce consistency on these and hide behind the defence that they're in a grey area that they won't touch then United are still at a massive advantage because they still get more calls in the first place and nothing has really changed.

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, YouUnastanFren said:

Mane just had what was in essence a very similar appeal to Pogba's against us. KWP leg already planted and Mane trips over the back of it and goes down.

If VAR isn't going to enforce consistency on these and hide behind the defence that they're in a grey area that they won't touch then United are still at a massive advantage because they still get more calls in the first place and nothing has really changed.

Yep, it was absolutely identical.

[gilbertoAVFC]

Looked much clearer than ours imo.

[bannedfromHandV]

Yes it was similar but the consistency in the two decisions was that they stuck with the on field call, which I can accept actually.

 

[YouUnastanFren]

2 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Yes it was similar but the consistency in the two decisions was that they stuck with the on field call, which I can accept actually.

 

I understand this viewpoint but that means all the extra on field calls United get will never be evened out. VAR should be trying to even the playing field imo, not just looking passively at the current uneven one

[bannedfromHandV]

18 minutes ago, YouUnastanFren said:

I understand this viewpoint but that means all the extra on field calls United get will never be evened out. VAR should be trying to even the playing field imo, not just looking passively at the current uneven one

Yep but for VAR to have a chance of working out long term there needs to be an acceptance for margin of error, it’s how it works in cricket and other sports, if it’s close / inconclusive you go with the on field call.

[YouUnastanFren]

1 minute ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Yep but for VAR to have a chance of working out long term there needs to be an acceptance for margin of error, it’s how it works in cricket and other sports, if it’s close / inconclusive you go with the on field call.

Marginal calls going with the onfield call in cricket are only for simulated hypotheticals like lbw where Hawkeye is predicting the path the ball would've taken.

Tangible events that we have actual footage of like fouls in football require a different system imo.

[bobzy]

All of this can’t be true because Liverpool weren’t given a penalty for the trip or the handball, but VAR is corrupt in favour of the big clubs?!

[Zatman]

8 minutes ago, bobzy said:

All of this can’t be true because Liverpool weren’t given a penalty for the trip or the handball, but VAR is corrupt in favour of the big clubs?!

maybe Liverpool is not a big club  sure the media made them out as plucky underdogs when they won the league last season  

[villa4europe]

2 minutes ago, Zatman said:

maybe Liverpool is not a big club  sure the media made them out as plucky underdogs when they won the league last season  

Net spend World champions vs the evil oil lot, to have won the league like that without spending any money... Incredible 

[Keyblade]

1 hour ago, gilbertoAVFC said:

Looked much clearer than ours imo.

KWP actually made a challenge too. With Douglas he was just matching him stride for stride and one of his legs went ahead of Pogba's which he then tripped over. I can't see how 1 is a penalty and the other isn't. Either they both are or aren't.