The Game's Gone

[Zatman]

Heading is not getting banned to save people's lives. Its just an excuse as the Scottish FA really just want to remove hoofball dinosaurs like Bruce and Big Sam from getting jobs

[Mic09]

9 minutes ago, Rolta said:

Just saying sport is dangerous isn't a logical argument against bringing in measures to reduce impact. It's just a phrase, and it doesn't add up to anything.

There are different measures that can be introduced.

Prohibiting using a skill that is a key element of the game is not like introducing halo in F1 - it's like telling drivers to drive slower. 

[Stevo985]

17 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

Ok, we are getting beyond the point, let's bring it back.

Yes, it's dangerous to repeatedly head a football. It may result in brain damage.

But any sport brings danger. Football, compared to rugby or martial arts probably less so. 

Heading a football is a key element of the game. Prohibition of training that skill for any time period impacts the game. (In Scotland heading a ball js probably 80% of what they do )

I hope we agree so far. 

I just think that we should explore different avenues to minimise those risks, just like we don't teach boxers not to throw head punches or American football players to run into each other which are even more of a risk.

Sport is dangerous. Anyone sending their kid to training without thinking "they might sustain injuries, it's a risky game" probably should think again. 

I don't know what the right answer is to minimising risks. But throwing a life vest on a swimmer or asking ice hockey players not to bash against each other is probably not the right way to go about minimising these risks. 

 

 

 

 

 

But again, this logic of "sport is dangerous, live with it" is nonsense.

By that logic any sort of safety equipment should be chucked in the bin. Helmets for racing drivers, shinpads for footballers, headguards for amateur boxers, halo in F1. Your logic would mean none of these would ever have been introduced

[Rolta]

Just now, Mic09 said:

There are different measures that can be introduced.

Prohibiting using a skill that is a key element of the game is not like introducing halo in F1 - it's like telling drivers to drive slower. 

They're not prohibiting it in games. Your comparisons come across a bit scattershot. I think a lot of them/all of them are false equivalencies.

What is the basic fact? Heading can have a long term health affect on players. Presumably there's some reasearch to back up the Scottish FA's decision. Does it improve the health of players? (presumably) Yes. Does it change the game everyone watches? No.

That's about it really.

 

[Davkaus]

Just now, Mic09 said:

 

Prohibiting using a skill that is a key element of the game is not like introducing halo in F1 - it's like telling drivers to drive slower. 

In training. For a day before and after.

You won't find many weightlifters or high divers pushing themselves to the limit shortly before or after a competition. Because they know it's **** stupid and causes more harm than it offers benefit. The health risk in this case is out of sight and out of mind. If it needs encouragement, so what.

Again, it's just in Scotland, they can be guinea pigs and see if it works. Why does it bother you at all.

[Davkaus]

Just now, Rolta said:

Your comparisons come across a bit scattershot. I think a lot of them/all of them are false equivalencies.

 

 

And only ever come in reply to a post that he can take a single comment for and run with it. 

No point engaging, honestly, it's like talking to a wall

[Mic09]

1 minute ago, Stevo985 said:

 

By that logic any sort of safety equipment should be chucked in the bin. Helmets for racing drivers, shinpads for footballers, headguards for amateur boxers, halo in F1. Your logic would mean none of these would ever have been introduced

I disagree, because none of the measures you listed affect the game.

Helmets for racing drivers - it's like introducing speed limits and safe distance between cars.

Headguards for boxers - it's like telling them not to throw head punches.

Halo in F1 - look at argument for helmets.

I am all for the measures you listed above. But not heading a ball is like not running into each other in American football. To me, that's a bad solution.

A helmet and body armour is a good solution in that sport.

[Rolta]

5 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

I disagree, because none of the measures you listed affect the game.

Helmets for racing drivers - it's like introducing speed limits and safe distance between cars.

Headguards for boxers - it's like telling them not to throw head punches.

Halo in F1 - look at argument for helmets.

I am all for the measures you listed above. But not heading a ball is like not running into each other in American football. To me, that's a bad solution.

A helmet and body armour is a good solution in that sport.

For the day before and after a game.

And each and every one of these is a false equivalency. They're literally illogical arguments against this training measure. Try to make an argument against this training measure without making a jump of a comparison that leaves out crucial information.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Rolta

[Mic09]

2 minutes ago, Rolta said:

For the day before and after a game.

And each and every one of these is a false equivalency. They're literally illogical arguments against this training measure.

7 day week, two games, 1 day off, realistically that leaves 1 day of heading a ball in training?

[Rolta]

13 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

7 day week, two games, 1 day off, realistically that leaves 1 day of heading a ball in training?

Not every week has two games. In fact, most don't. They header the balls in games. To put it another way, under this system there are just two days a week where the players don't head the ball.

If there are two games in the week players have reduced and adjusted training anyway—there are details you are omitting in every comment. The players don't train at 100% intensity and use every skill 100% of the time. If heading is really important then corners and whatever can still be a part of training—they'd just have to provide recovery time for the players brains around games and schedule it appropriately.

Anecdotal, but of all the training footage I've seen of footballers over the years—quite a lot—an emphasis on heading has been almost nonexistent. As I say, nothing needs to change—the training load including heading doesn't need to change.

When they have a day off they don't forget how to header!

Edited November 28, 2022 by Rolta

[Mic09]

11 minutes ago, Rolta said:

 

Anecdotal, but of all the training footage I've seen of footballers over the years—quite a lot—an emphasis on heading has been almost nonexistent. 

I think that's because footage, at least  professional, is unlikely to show set piece training in game preparation. That's when you head the ball. Hoofing 60 yards and defender heading it away is not really practised on daily basis (I'd assume).

From my training as a kid I remember we used to head it to someone 5 yards away. 

But if it is such a small part of the training routine, do you think the Scottish changes are likely to show a correlation between reduced brain damage and the new laws?

I guess time will tell. 

I think there are various variables such as better footballs and more emphasis to actually play the ball on the ground (a massive change from 30 years ago), improved medical care and actually discussing those issues are variables that will naturally lower the number of brain injuries. 

Which we can all agree is great news.

[fightoffyour]

1 hour ago, Mic09 said:

I don't know what the right answer is to minimising risks. But throwing a life vest on a swimmer or asking ice hockey players not to bash against each other is probably not the right way to go about minimising these risks. 

It's not like throwing a life jacket on a swimmer though is it. A swimmer isn't going to just drown during a race unless there's some unfortunate accident.

It's more like holding swimming races in a pool instead of the open seas (and no it's not a great analogy either, but I didn't choose it) - the race is the same, but before, during, and afterwards there's less chance of injury.

[HanoiVillan]

All I want to say is that it's not very many days since I watched a very moving video of a tearful Nathan Baker being given a guard of honour onto the pitch at Ashton Gate, forced into an early retirement, and I think people would do to remember that we're not just talking about statistical averages but real people we can put names to here. 

[fightoffyour]

19 hours ago, Wainy316 said:

There’s probably a more relevant thread for this but at least I didn’t put it in ‘The games good’.

 

[PussEKatt]

Well,I was a boxer for about 5 years and got hit in the head repetedly and it didnt effect me at all.

Well,I was a boxer for about 5 years and got hit in the head repetedly and it didnt effect me at all.

Well,I was a boxer for about 5 years and got hit in the head repetedly and it didnt effect me at all.

Well,I was a boxer for about 5 years and got hit in the head repetedly and it didnt effect me at all.

[Genie]

 

[Hornso]

11 hours ago, Zatman said:

Heading is not getting banned to save people's lives. Its just an excuse as the Scottish FA really just want to remove hoofball dinosaurs like Bruce and Big Sam from getting jobs

The cynic in me says heading is not getting banned to save people's lives. It's getting banned to guard against future lawsuits coming the administration of football's way.

[villa4europe]

ESPN reporting that real Madrid have signed 16 year old endrick for 72m€

[avfc1982am]

11 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

ESPN reporting that real Madrid have signed 16 year old endrick for 72m€

Posted this the other day about him.... The kid will be worth double in 2 years. Phenomenal talent and expected to surpass Neymar. But yeah, the game has gone. 

.

 

 

[Zatman]

21 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

ESPN reporting that real Madrid have signed 16 year old endrick for 72m€

He cannot play in Europe for 2 more seasons