Tom13 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 Not a Hogan fan in the slightest, would always pick Kodjia and Abraham over him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaffer85 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 42 minutes ago, Tom13 said: Not a Hogan fan in the slightest, would always pick Kodjia and Abraham over him. Ya he is not as good at the moment but he knows how Smith likes too play and showed under Smith before he was one of the best strikers in the division Personally I think it's a nice problem to have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Keyblade said: I think @bobzy already mentioned this, but he was better than 1 in 2 for his entire professional career before joining us. That's not just one small purple patch. Knowing that, I think the much safer presupposition, especially given who our previous manager was, would be that he's been woefully mismanaged in his time here. Scoring goals in the lower leagues adds nothing to the debate. People claim he is a terrific player at this level. He has had one 30 game spell at this level. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 Just now, DCJonah said: Scoring goals in the lower leagues adds nothing to the debate. People claim he is a terrific player at this level. He has had one 30 game spell at this level. I was disputing the point that he had 1 purple patch in his career which just isn't true. He was a 1 in 2 striker in his entire career including in the Championship where his record was 21 in 33. That one spell was his only spell in the league. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 21 minutes ago, Keyblade said: I was disputing the point that he had 1 purple patch in his career which just isn't true. He was a 1 in 2 striker in his entire career including in the Championship where his record was 21 in 33. That one spell was his only spell in the league. In regards to Aston Villa and claims he is a proven, terrific championship player it is 100% true. His entire career is irrelevant. Goals at a lower level mean nothing in the context that's being discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 23 minutes ago, Keyblade said: I was disputing the point that he had 1 purple patch in his career which just isn't true. He was a 1 in 2 striker in his entire career including in the Championship where his record was 21 in 33. That one spell was his only spell in the league. You also seem to have ignored the last 2 years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 1 minute ago, DCJonah said: In regards to Aston Villa and claims he is a proven, terrific championship player it is 100% true. His entire career is irrelevant. Goals at a lower level mean nothing in the context that's being discussed. His career isn't irrelevant when that's what's being referenced when people say "he's had 1 purple patch in his whole career" . That's the entire context that's being discussed. Literally nobody is disputing that his time at Aston Villa hasn't been horrible...that's why his career outside of Villa is being referenced in the first place. The point that's being made is that maybe, just maybe, and hear me out here this might sound crazy....that it might have to do with him being horribly mismanaged by our former manager...which is something the player himself has also intimated. Nobody is saying he's terrific, that's just you adding 1 + 1 and getting 30. Given the evidence of his career prior to joining us, he's probably better than what he's shown for us is all, I don't understand why such an innocuous point is being so hotly contested honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Keyblade said: His career isn't irrelevant when that's what's being referenced when people say "he's had 1 purple patch in his whole career" . That's the entire context that's being discussed. Literally nobody is disputing that his time at Aston Villa hasn't been horrible...that's why his career outside of Villa is being referenced in the first place. The point that's being made is that maybe, just maybe, and hear me out here this might sound crazy....that it might have to do with him being horribly mismanaged by our former manager...which is something the player himself has also intimated. Nobody is saying he's terrific, that's just you adding 1 + 1 and getting 30. Given the evidence of his career prior to joining us, he's probably better than what he's shown for us is all, I don't understand why such an innocuous point is being so hotly contested honestly. Stevo was responding to people who have claimed he is terrific at this level. His goals in lower leagues are irrelevant to this. You've ignored a lot then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Stevo was responding to people who have claimed he is terrific at this level. His goals in lower leagues are irrelevant to this. You've ignored a lot then. Yeah I probably did miss it because if it did happen, it was probably only one person. Actually I just searched it, and it really was just 1 guy . In fact, you've talked about "people" calling him terrific more than anybody even called him that. The majority of people have been making the point I mentioned, which like I said is so innocuous that it doesn't warrant over 10 pages of discussion. Anyway, I don't know why I'm being sucked into this weird argument but this was the point I was disputing. In very clear terms, Stevo's has been referencing his entire 10 year career. So yeah, it's just wrong. That's all. On 18/10/2018 at 16:40, Stevo985 said: So one 30 game spell in a 10 year career to date is enough to be terrific? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiltorken Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 Not being able to control simple passes consistently or complete simple passes for that matter doesn't bode well for him. His confidence is obviously shot which has to play a big part but to me he looks like a poor man's Andy Johnson, lots of running and being a nuisance but not a very good footballer. In saying that I would be thrilled if he turned it around and shot us to promotion, although even if we play two strikers which I don't think we will, he has to be behind Tammy and Kodjia anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedman Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 This thread is fairly amusing. "He's been rubbish for us" "it's been tough though, poor coaching and no tactics" "but he's failed at the basics of being a footballer, like controlling the ball" "but he's proven at this level, just look at his history" "but he's been a failure for us" "he just needs more time and better coaching" And around we go. It's basically the Steve Bruce thread, tweaked slightly to suit a striker rather than a manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiltorken Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, weedman said: This thread is fairly amusing. "He's been rubbish for us" "it's been tough though, poor coaching and no tactics" "but he's failed at the basics of being a footballer, like controlling the ball" "but he's proven at this level, just look at his history" "but he's been a failure for us" "he just needs more time and better coaching" And around we go. It's basically the Steve Bruce thread, tweaked slightly to suit a striker rather than a manager What a time to be alive. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 36 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Yeah I probably did miss it because if it did happen, it was probably only one person. Actually I just searched it, and it really was just 1 guy . In fact, you've talked about "people" calling him terrific more than anybody even called him that. The majority of people have been making the point I mentioned, which like I said is so innocuous that it doesn't warrant over 10 pages of discussion. Anyway, I don't know why I'm being sucked into this weird argument but this was the point I was disputing. In very clear terms, Stevo's has been referencing his entire 10 year career. So yeah, it's just wrong. That's all. Quite clearly, stevo was responding to the guy who said he was a terrific championship player. You seem to be struggling with that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keener window-cleaner Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 44 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Stevo was responding to people who have claimed he is terrific at this level. His goals in lower leagues are irrelevant to this. I did and I stand by it, it also helps to read it in the context in which it was said. You have repeated this a couple of times now, but you still haven't answered my previous question who you think is a terrific Championship player? As you quite firmly stand by that Hogan isn't, it would be interesting to know who you would say is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, Keener window-cleaner said: I did and I stand by it, it also helps to read it in the context in which it was said. You have repeated this a couple of times now, but you still haven't answered my previous question who you think is a terrific Championship player? As you quite firmly stand by that Hogan isn't, it would be interesting to know who you would say is. I think to be a terrific player at any level, it helps to be proven at that level. Hogan is not. He may well end up being terrific, i'd be surprised but he is no where near that currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keener window-cleaner Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 20 minutes ago, DCJonah said: I think to be a terrific player at any level, it helps to be proven at that level. Hogan is not. He may well end up being terrific, i'd be surprised but he is no where near that currently. If you look at the stats of Championship strikers you'd see that very few have scored loads of goals year in and year out. Tammy Abraham is in my view probably the best Championship striker, but he has also just had one season of scoring goals (a purple patch?) and that was a couple of years ago. Kodjia has had two good seasons, but didn't score many last season. Dwigt Gayle has had one season of scoring many goals. The ones that have been fairly consistent have been Britt Assombalonga and Lewis Grabban, but they have also had seasons where they haven't scored many. So if scoring 21 in 33 doesn't make you terrific, but you need to do it year in and year out, well then there would hardly be any players we could say are terrific Championship players. As I said before I agree that it's difficult to rate him at the moment and I'm not sure if he will have the opportunity to come back to the form he had before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 9 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Quite clearly, stevo was responding to the guy who said he was a terrific championship player. You seem to be struggling with that. Am I? I saw the post he quoted, when I quoted him obviously. You seem to be struggling with context. Has Hogan had a 10 year championship career that I've missed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_b Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 Under Smiths coaching this striker is going to score goals, might be crap with his first touch but his runs will stretch defences and create opportunities of that I have no doubt, exciting impact sub to start I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 He is terrific. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Time will tell if Smith can get a tune out of him. First bit of action since before the play off final tbf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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