Scott Hogan

[Stevo985]

13 hours ago, Stuartc445 said:

That is the Correct answer,  for some reason that i do not understand people will always find an excuse for Hogan but won't with other players.

Luckily that excuse will soon no longer be valid.

He has the same manager he had during the one impressive spell in his career. If it doesn't work for him now it never will.

 

Either he turns back into that striker and we suddenly have a good striker on our hands. Or the excuses run out and we can file this one under dud.

My suspicion is it will be the latter, but everybody wins if it's the former. Fingers crossed.

[KHV]

10 hours ago, Dave J said:

I agree with you and I think we should all get behind Scott Hogan and show him our full support.

I am however realistic enough to acknowledge that sometimes and for lots of reasons it just doesn't happen for a player at a club and this might be the case for Scott - I have felt for some time, that he will go back to Brentford and start scoring once more. Sometimes the expectations of playing for a massive club are just too much for a player and this might be the case for Scott.

This happens most of the time with Aston Villa. We take okay players, triple their salaries and then wonder why they do **** all. Most of the players in our squad won't get paid what we pay them anywhere else in their careers. Villa is like one big early retirement home. Hogan falls in to that category for me.

[KenjiOgiwara]

I think people are expecting a bit too much. Hogan will start scoring when the team start creating. Still haven't seen us create much this season, other than the odd hoofball. Obviously Hogan won't do much with hoofballs.  He's all about channel movements and poaching. Which is the type of football we'll see from DS I reckon. 

Edited October 26, 2018 by KenjiOgiwara

[lapal_fan]

The thing with Hogan is, you have to play to his strengths, otherwise you get very little out of him.  He wants to finish moves.  His main attributes are shooting and being in the right place to shoot - that's essentially it.

He's not going to carve chances out for himself, he's not tall or powerful enough to play with his back to goal and he doesn't want the ball at his feet.  His passing is very limited to finding the man around him or going out wide. 

So, to get the best out of him you need a lot of chance creation.  Guess what we've not had much of the last 2 years? 

I feel for him slightly.  we know he can score, but if he doesn't, and we can't get the chances for him - he's a waste of a starting position. 

See also Rhodes, who is similar (but better I think). 

[bobzy]

14 hours ago, Stuartc445 said:

That is the Correct answer,  for some reason that i do not understand people will always find an excuse for Hogan but won't with other players.

It's because we've all seen what he's capable of.  He's a poacher in and around the 6 yard box, his runs off defenders have been superb and he's scored a lot of goals when played this way.

So far, during his time at Villa, he hasn't been played in this manner once.  Not once!

 

People love writing players off, though.  It's a thing that happens with regularity on here.  You can already see posters responding with "OMG look he's now played under Smith and is still shit" after a 45 minute cameo against a Norwich side that dominated our midfield.  Kodjia did nothing in his 10 minute cameo either - you'll find his thread over on page 2 of the forum having not been commented on for a week or so.  That isn't to say that Kodjia is bad or Hogan is great or any of that; just that people love to write players off and be proved correct.  Shrug.

[bobzy]

47 minutes ago, KHV said:

This happens most of the time with Aston Villa. We take okay players, triple their salaries and then wonder why they do **** all. Most of the players in our squad won't get paid what we pay them anywhere else in their careers. Villa is like one big early retirement home. Hogan falls in to that category for me.

When clubs have a lot of money to spend, they often make rash decisions early on.  When they don't have as much to spend, everything tends to be more planned.

We're not a retirement home, we've just been a terribly run club.

[bobzy]

12 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

I feel for him slightly.  we know he can score, but if he doesn't, and we can't get the chances for him - he's a waste of a starting position. 

See also Rhodes, who is similar (but better I think). 

Spot on.  A bit of a luxury player in many respects - sort of the same with Darren Bent when we had him.  If he didn't score, he didn't really add anything.  However, we played to Bent's strengths a lot and he scored a fair bit.

If we're not going to bother carving opportunities out from anything other than the wing/set pieces, then Hogan is wasted up top.

[Stuartc445]

5 minutes ago, bobzy said:

It's because we've all seen what he's capable of.  He's a poacher in and around the 6 yard box, his runs off defenders have been superb and he's scored a lot of goals when played this way.

So far, during his time at Villa, he hasn't been played in this manner once.  Not once!

 

People love writing players off, though.  It's a thing that happens with regularity on here.  You can already see posters responding with "OMG look he's now played under Smith and is still shit" after a 45 minute cameo against a Norwich side that dominated our midfield.  Kodjia did nothing in his 10 minute cameo either - you'll find his thread over on page 2 of the forum having not been commented on for a week or so.  That isn't to say that Kodjia is bad or Hogan is great or any of that; just that people love to write players off and be proved correct.  Shrug.

A poacher so what happened in the playoff final with that header? And what about the header where he gave up mid jump vs Norwich. He couldn't even poach an egg.

 

As has been mentioned in this thread people will have a pop at Kodjia for being lazy etc.... But will make excuses for Hogan when he's doing the same

[lapal_fan]

1 minute ago, Stuartc445 said:

A poacher so what happened in the playoff final with that header? And what about the header where he gave up mid jump vs Norwich. He couldn't even poach an egg.

 

As has been mentioned in this thread people will have a pop at Kodjia for being lazy etc.... But will make excuses for Hogan when he's doing the same

So a player misses a header, and half jumps to probably confirm to himself that the ball isn't quite good enough to do anything with - ergo, he's a terrible player?

Please do show me someone who has go-go-gadget limbs and a striker who has 100% conversion rate. 

Silly post is silly. And I'm not even a Hogan "apologist" or anything. 

[bobzy]

4 minutes ago, Stuartc445 said:

A poacher so what happened in the playoff final with that header? And what about the header where he gave up mid jump vs Norwich. He couldn't even poach an egg.

 

As has been mentioned in this thread people will have a pop at Kodjia for being lazy etc.... But will make excuses for Hogan when he's doing the same

I don't really see your point.  I don't remember the playoff final header either - but then I guess I'm not holding a silly grudge for one of our players.

Kodjia's game is about holding up the ball, turning his man and having a shot.  If he doesn't work to get the ball, he becomes ineffective.  Hogan's game is running off the last defender to get on the end of passes.  If he doesn't work to get himself into space, he becomes ineffective.  Thus, Kodjia being "lazy" is entirely noticeable and kills his game off.  Hogan being "lazy" is him not getting into space, which people don't spot in the same way.

If you can't see the differences between the players you're comparing, then it's no wonder you don't understand why people are "making excuses for" Hogan.

Edited October 26, 2018 by bobzy

[CosmicVillan]

15 hours ago, Stuartc445 said:

yeah i'm sure it's the system that's the problem

The decimal system..head like a 50p

[DCJonah]

3 hours ago, lapal_fan said:

The thing with Hogan is, you have to play to his strengths, otherwise you get very little out of him.  He wants to finish moves.  His main attributes are shooting and being in the right place to shoot - that's essentially it.

He's not going to carve chances out for himself, he's not tall or powerful enough to play with his back to goal and he doesn't want the ball at his feet.  His passing is very limited to finding the man around him or going out wide. 

So, to get the best out of him you need a lot of chance creation.  Guess what we've not had much of the last 2 years? 

I feel for him slightly.  we know he can score, but if he doesn't, and we can't get the chances for him - he's a waste of a starting position. 

See also Rhodes, who is similar (but better I think). 

Why would we want a player like that?

We have 2 strikers that can do everything hogan can and are also better scorers. 

 

[lapal_fan]

Just now, DCJonah said:

Why would we want a player like that?

We have 2 strikers that can do everything hogan can and are also better scorers. 

 

That's taken the talk in another direction, because no one said anything about wanting a player like that or not. It certainly wasn't the point I was making either. 

[villa89]

3 hours ago, lapal_fan said:

He's not going to carve chances out for himself, he's not tall or powerful enough to play with his back to goal and he doesn't want the ball at his feet.  His passing is very limited to finding the man around him or going out wide. 

I agree and it doesn't sound like the description a player worth £12m to me. More of a description of a Steve Bruce panic buy.

[lapal_fan]

39 minutes ago, villa89 said:

I agree and it doesn't sound like the description a player worth £12m to me. More of a description of a Steve Bruce panic buy.

Actually it's exactly what a £12m pound player sounds like to me, which is why 33 year old Ronaldo is going for 99 million and there's this guy called Neymar who went for 200m 

[TRO]

18 hours ago, sir_gary_cahill said:

Why will you be surprised if he gets anything out of him? He did at Brentford and then some

I agree with the second part of your post

Different time, Different place, Different set of players to play with, different surroundings and expectation.

I hope I am wrong....but its just what I feel seeing him play.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, lapal_fan said:

Actually it's exactly what a £12m pound player sounds like to me, which is why 33 year old Ronaldo is going for 99 million and there's this guy called Neymar who went for 200m 

Its what Deano mooted about attitude......Ronaldo trains and works on his game in his sleep.

[sir_gary_cahill]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Different time, Different place, Different set of players to play with, different surroundings and expectation.

I hope I am wrong....but its just what I feel seeing him play.

Same league, same stadia, the manager will accommodate him and get the best out of him in my opinion, he’ll build the team around him like he did at Brentford 

[bobzy]

10 hours ago, Stuartc445 said:

A poacher so what happened in the playoff final with that header? And what about the header where he gave up mid jump vs Norwich. He couldn't even poach an egg.

 

As has been mentioned in this thread people will have a pop at Kodjia for being lazy etc.... But will make excuses for Hogan when he's doing the same

Man, I hope you didn't watch Kodjia completely miss a header from Grealish's free kick in that first half.  If you did, I can only imagine it will stay with you for months!

Anything Hogan can do...

[VillaChris]

I just think Hogan has completely lost his confidence after playing under Bruceball for two months. I imagine Dean has seen in training a player completely low on confidence compared to what he had at Brentford seeing as he hasn't started him in any of the three games.

It's tough when strikers lose that scoring touch as they rarely get it back. McCormack is similar case and when you think back last 20 years we've had likes of Carew, Angel, Bent (after his injury), Gabby all were consistantly prolific then they fell out of favour and could never get that scoring rate back up when they started again. Can only think of Dion Dublin in 2002/03 who bucked that trend after a couple of lean scoring seasons.

Would love to be proved wrong but I don't think it will happen for Hogan here. It dosen't help when he does get a rare run of starts he picks up an injury and then we don't see him for six weeks.

Baffles me why we didn't loan him out for six months in the summer. Would've made sense to send him somewhere else, hopefully starts scoring and then Dean Smith gets a more confident player back to work with in January. Probably more examples of Bruce mismanagement.