Scott Hogan

[DCJonah]

3 minutes ago, Keener window-cleaner said:

I'd say scoring 21 in 33 in the Championship would make him a terrific striker in the Championship. Scoring a couple in different circumstances during the next 30 makes it hard to rate him, currently obviously not terrific, but still with the potential of again being terrific.  

One spell does not make him terrific.

[terrytini]

I suspect playing under Dean Smith meant he got a lot of opportunities, ( due to their way of playing). I’m not at all sure that his record there says as much about him as it does about Smith.

We shall see.....if Smith rates him highly he will get a chance......

 

[Keener window-cleaner]

37 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

One spell does not make him terrific.

Who would you say is a terrific Championship striker?

[VillanousOne]

wow why do we love to hate on our own players, why not just support the guy and hope under Smith he gets a chance to prove himself and scores some goals. We need depth, Abraham will be gone in the summer, players get injured.

this stuff about RHM deserving to be ahead of Hogan is bizarre, RHM has look utterly useless in every first team appearance he has made, doesn't mean he should be written off just saying he still has a lot to prove, so does Hogan.

[Kiwivillan]

1 shot on target in 15 min late sub for Ireland. Better than most of the 90 min players

[Spoony]

14 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I'm not sure how long Hogan can ride the wave of that one 30 game spell at Brentford. Having the manager he had during that time will show us whether that was a flash in the pan or his actual ability. Considering that is his only real spell of quality in his career to date I suspect it'll be the former. But I'll be pleasantly surprised if he returns to that. We need it.

So one 30 game spell in a 10 year career to date is enough to be terrific? I remember players like Marlon Harewood or Roque Santa Cruz or Afonso Alves having similar flashes in their careers.

But ok. I hope you're right!

At Aston Villa they are both in the frame for how good they could be. I'd rather give RHM the game time as a fringe player and bring him through than waste it on somebody who i consider to be a pretty shit player.

If Smith turns Hogan around and turns him back into the player he was for that short spell at Brentford then obviously my opinion on that would change.

But based on what I've seen in an Aston Villa shirt, Scott Hogan looks crap whilst RHM is a youth prospect with a potentially bright future.

Just a shout out to Roque Santa Cruz as a name I haven’t heard in TIME!

[Dave J]

7 hours ago, VillanousOne said:

wow why do we love to hate on our own players, why not just support the guy and hope under Smith he gets a chance to prove himself and scores some goals. We need depth, Abraham will be gone in the summer, players get injured.

this stuff about RHM deserving to be ahead of Hogan is bizarre, RHM has look utterly useless in every first team appearance he has made, doesn't mean he should be written off just saying he still has a lot to prove, so does Hogan.

Totally agree with you - it's as bizarre  as it gets in my view - but it's a forum and everyone has a view.

As for RHM I also agree - but do feel there is a player in there somewhere and I really feel that a loan would be really helpful for him.

[Tommo_b]

21 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

If Smith turns Hogan around and turns him back into the player he was for that short spell at Brentford then obviously my opinion on that would change.

But based on what I've seen in an Aston Villa shirt, Scott Hogan looks crap whilst RHM is a youth prospect with a potentially bright future.

So you’re saying you would’ve played Bowery over Hogan too if he was still here? 

[Dave J]

7 hours ago, VillanousOne said:

wow why do we love to hate on our own players, why not just support the guy and hope under Smith he gets a chance to prove himself and scores some goals. We need depth, Abraham will be gone in the summer, players get injured.

this stuff about RHM deserving to be ahead of Hogan is bizarre, RHM has look utterly useless in every first team appearance he has made, doesn't mean he should be written off just saying he still has a lot to prove, so does Hogan.

Totally agree with you - it's as bizarre  as it gets in my view - but it's a forum and everyone has a view.

As for RHM I also agree - but do feel there is a player in there somewhere and I really feel that a loan would be really helpful for him.

[Dave J]

54 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

So you’re saying you would’ve played Bowery over Hogan too if he was still here? 

You are totally correct

[Stevo985]

9 hours ago, VillanousOne said:

RHM has look utterly useless in every first team appearance he has made

So has Hogan

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, Tommo_b said:

So you’re saying you would’ve played Bowery over Hogan too if he was still here? 

No. Jordan Bowery was a crap League 2 player who was already 22 when he signed for us and wasn't particularly highly rated as far as I'm aware.

RHM is a 20 year old, highly rated, Aston Villa academy prospect.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Stevo985

[Stevo985]

9 hours ago, VillanousOne said:

wow why do we love to hate on our own players, why not just support the guy and hope under Smith he gets a chance to prove himself and scores some goals. We need depth, Abraham will be gone in the summer, players get injured.

I like Hogan as a person. I think he's a hard worker and has a good attitude for the game.

I am 100% hopeful that Smith turns him back into the player we briefly saw at Brentford and I'll support him in that fully.

But that doesn't mean that I can't say that for Aston Villa he has been shit. The only reason people give him time of day is because of this brief spell in his career when he was prolific.
It's weird to me that our other players who have performed or are performing for us don't get the same benefit of the doubt.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Stevo985

[TrentVilla]

1 minute ago, Stevo985 said:

I like Hogan as a person. I think he's a hard worker and has a good attitude for the game.

I am 100% hopeful that Smith turns him back into the player we briefly saw at Brentford and I'll support him in that fully.

But that doesn't mean that I can't say that for Aston Villa he has been shit. The only reason people give him time of day is because of this brief spell in his career when he was prolific.
It's weird to me that our own players who have performed or are performing for us don't get the same benefit of the doubt.

I'm not quite sure I get what you mean by our "own players", Hogan is our player. And which player or players that have performed for us aren't given the same benefit of the doubt? Is this in reference to RHM who I've seen mentioned a few times? If so then I struggle to see how he has performed for us, I've not once been impressed when he has played and unless I'm mistaken he hasn't scored a senior goal yet.

I don't think anyone is really saying that Hogan hasn't been poor for us, the crux of the dispute is that some such as yourself seem to think he is a poor player who had a purple patch while others think he is a good striker woefully let down by his manager at Villa. I think both views are perfectly understandable, personally I'm of the later view, but we will soon find out which is right I guess.

[Stevo985]

1 minute ago, TrentVilla said:

I'm not quite sure I get what you mean by our "own players", Hogan is our player. And which player or players that have performed for us aren't given the same benefit of the doubt? Is this in reference to RHM who I've seen mentioned a few times? If so then I struggle to see how he has performed for us, I've not once been impressed when he has played and unless I'm mistaken he hasn't scored a senior goal yet.

I don't think anyone is really saying that Hogan hasn't been poor for us, the crux of the dispute is that some such as yourself seem to think he is a poor player who had a purple patch while others think he is a good striker woefully let down by his manager at Villa. I think both views are perfectly understandable, personally I'm of the later view, but we will soon find out which is right I guess.

Apologies, a typo. I meant "other" players. I've corrected it.

Go into the Kodjia thread and he gets slaughtered for a couple of poor performances this season.

He's been playing under Steve Bruce too who apparently is the main reason all our players are crap.
Same with Abraham who has done more in his handful of games here than Hogan has in 2 years.

Yet Hogan gets almost totally excused by most because Steve Bruce and because wrong system and because Brentford.

So it irks me when players like Kodjia, who has been one of our better players since relegation to the Championship gets loads of shit for playing poorly. And Scott Hogan, who has been toilet in a Villa shirt gets a load of pity because he was good for 30 games a few years ago.

[TrentVilla]

Just now, Stevo985 said:

Go into the Kodjia thread and he gets slaughtered for a couple of poor performances this season.

He's been playing under Steve Bruce too who apparently is the main reason all our players are crap.
Same with Abraham who has done more in his handful of games here than Hogan has in 2 years.

Yet Hogan gets almost totally excused by most because Steve Bruce and because wrong system and because Brentford.

So it irks me when players like Kodjia, who has been one of our better players since relegation to the Championship gets loads of shit for playing poorly. And Scott Hogan, who has been toilet in a Villa shirt gets a load of pity because he was good for 30 games a few years ago.

Steve Bruce certainly wasn't the main reason all our players were crap, some of them are just crap but he is responsible for buying some of those. I think he was largely responsible for some of our better players playing crap though but I'm long since done talking about Bruce.

In terms of Kodjia, yes he gets stick but I don't think your comparison is a very valid one for a couple of reasons. Firstly Kodjia prior to his injury was a player that created quite a high proportion of his own goals and who scored a lot of goals initially under Bruce. Since his injury that has changed, we haven't changed how we played its his performance levels that have changed. Now I'm not sure getting on his back is justified but that is materially different in my view to the situation with Hogan. Add to that the main reason that Kodjia gets stick and has always got stick is because of how selfish he is, he got that even when scoring goals.

As for Hogan, I get why you wish to dismiss his form as 30 games. But its a selective way of looking at it, he didn't make his professional debut until 2013. He then scored 17 in 33 for Rochdale, moved to Brentford and scored 21 in 33... then he moves to Villa at the same level and gets 7 in 50. I think there it is fairly justifiable to think that he was a decent striker who's form and progress was halted by playing for a manager incapable of using him correctly.

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

11 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Yet Hogan gets almost totally excused by most because Steve Bruce and because wrong system and because Brentford.

I’d say in the main Hogan has been slaughtered on this site. I’ve been massively disappointed but I do think a confident fully fit Hogan could be a real threat in this league. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 minute ago, TrentVilla said:

I think there it is fairly justifiable to think that he was a decent striker who's form and progress was halted by playing for a manager incapable of using him correctly.

Or it’s very likely that the move was way to big for him and he has struggled under the pressure. If that’s the case and there’s a good player in there somewhere hopefully Smith can get it out of him. 

[Stevo985]

3 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

I think there it is fairly justifiable to think that he was a decent striker who's form and progress was halted by playing for a manager incapable of using him correctly.

 

And I think it's perfectly justifiable to think that he is a striker who has had one small purple patch at a decent level but isn't actually very good.

Like I said, having Smith here will be the ultimate proof either way. There won't be any excuses left if he continues to be shit.

I hope you're right and he turns it around and transforms back into that prolific championship striker he was briefly. I suspect he won't, but I'll be thrilled if I'm wrong.

[TrentVilla]

2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

And I think it's perfectly justifiable to think that he is a striker who has had one small purple patch at a decent level but isn't actually very good.

Like I said, having Smith here will be the ultimate proof either way. There won't be any excuses left if he continues to be shit.

I hope you're right and he turns it around and transforms back into that prolific championship striker he was briefly. I suspect he won't, but I'll be thrilled if I'm wrong.

I still maintain that 38 goals in 66 games at the start of your professional career is a little more than “one small purple patch”. It’s not like he is Grant Holt who has been bang average for years than gone on a scoring run one season but we will have to agree to disagree on that.

I agree there will be no excuse left if he doesn’t score goals under Smith then he will simply have failed here. Currently I think there is reason to think the failing isn’t entirely on him.