Scott Hogan

[DCJonah]

6 hours ago, TrentVilla said:

They do but then how many managers spend £12m on a striker seemingly without any idea what their strengths are or the ability or willingness to play to them? It was a ridiculous signing by Bruce.

What basic things has Hogan failed to master?

When we signed Carew we played to his strengths, when we signed Benteke we played to his strengths. Hogan like Baros we have done anything but and then we wonder why players that score goals elsewhere suddenly don’t? (Let’s not debate Baros)

I find it an odd contradiction that people don’t expect big target men to be making runs in behind, yet expect players who’s game is all about that to be able to effective with balls lumped forward, crosses and painfully slow approach play.

Bruce said we had scouted him for a while. Are you saying he might not have told the truth?

[Vive_La_Villa]

26 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Bruce said we had scouted him for a while. Are you saying he might not have told the truth?

Scouted him my arse. He just saw he was top goalscorer in the league and told the club he wanted him. 

Did the same with Grabban a year later.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Vive_La_Villa

[Killeen30]

8 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Scouted him my arse. He just saw he was top goalscorer in the league and told the club he wanted him. 

Did the same with Grabban a year later.

100% agree with this.

[TrentVilla]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

Bruce said we had scouted him for a while. Are you saying he might not have told the truth?

Specifically? I don’t know. But I have my doubts about the scouting involved I really do and let’s face it there have been plenty of times Bruce has lied. And I have my doubts about some of the other scouting on players like Lansbury, Bree and Nyland.

If he was scouted then in a way that makes it even worse, that’s not me being critical of Hogan as I think he is a good player.

I just don’t think it’s hard to imagine Bruce looking at the top scorers in the Champ and League One and seeing who was available. It isn’t like at any point in his 2 years he has attempted to build a team or system.

 

[Dave J]

11 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Specifically? I don’t know. But I have my doubts about the scouting involved I really do and let’s face it there have been plenty of times Bruce has lied. And I have my doubts about some of the other scouting on players like Lansbury, Bree and Nyland.

If he was scouted then in a way that makes it even worse, that’s not me being critical of Hogan as I think he is a good player.

I just don’t think it’s hard to imagine Bruce looking at the top scorers in the Champ and League One and seeing who was available. It isn’t like at any point in his 2 years he has attempted to build a team or system.

 

Completely agree with you and what is equally damning of Bruce is that he was completely incapable of improving Scott as a footballer - nor it seems did he appear bothered.

I look forward to Scott proving his doubters wrong - along with the nonsensical views that a barely tested young player of the future - is a better choice of striker than Hogan represents. Imo 

[Killeen30]

2 minutes ago, Dave J said:

Completely agree with you and what is equally damning of Bruce is that he was completely incapable of improving Scott as a footballer - nor it seems did he appear bothered.

I look forward to Scott proving his doubters wrong - along with the nonsensical views that a barely tested young player of the future - is a better choice of striker than Hogan represents. Imo 

I think he will prove the doubters wrong and I have a feeling he can have a good Villa career.

[DCJonah]

20 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Specifically? I don’t know. But I have my doubts about the scouting involved I really do and let’s face it there have been plenty of times Bruce has lied. And I have my doubts about some of the other scouting on players like Lansbury, Bree and Nyland.

If he was scouted then in a way that makes it even worse, that’s not me being critical of Hogan as I think he is a good player.

I just don’t think it’s hard to imagine Bruce looking at the top scorers in the Champ and League One and seeing who was available. It isn’t like at any point in his 2 years he has attempted to build a team or system.

 

Sorry, I should have made it more obvious i wad joking. 

Of course the idiot didn't scout him. Complete panic buy when the west ham deal fell through. 

[TrentVilla]

5 minutes ago, Dave J said:

Completely agree with you and what is equally damning of Bruce is that he was completely incapable of improving Scott as a footballer - nor it seems did he appear bothered.

I look forward to Scott proving his doubters wrong - along with the nonsensical views that a barely tested young player of the future - is a better choice of striker than Hogan represents. Imo 

How many players that Bruce signed for Villa have played as well for us as they did their previous club out of the 22? Terry, Grabban... I’m struggling beyond that...

[PompeyVillan]

I think he will start tomorrow. 

[TrentVilla]

Just now, PompeyVillan said:

I think he will start tomorrow. 

I can see him starting with Hogan and Abraham.

[VillanousOne]

12 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

So has Hogan

except Hogan has scored goals.
 

[Stevo985]

1 minute ago, VillanousOne said:

except Hogan has scored goals.
 

Not for us.

I wouldn't be surprised if RHM played 50 games for us and managed to score more than 7.

[Dave J]

19 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

How many players that Bruce signed for Villa have played as well for us as they did their previous club out of the 22? Terry, Grabban... I’m struggling beyond that...

It gets more damning with each page you turn - he was a good man manager though - or so they would have you believe !!

[Zatman]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Scouted him my arse. He just saw he was top goalscorer in the league and told the club he wanted him. 

Did the same with Grabban a year later.

I am sure Hourihane and Lansbury were at top of assists table too

[Zatman]

12 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Not for us.

I wouldn't be surprised if RHM played 50 games for us and managed to score more than 7.

He is on 15 at moment with no goals

[VillanousOne]

9 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Not for us.

I wouldn't be surprised if RHM played 50 games for us and managed to score more than 7.

so you say he hasn't scored goals and then say he's scored 7?????

I hope RHM plays 200 games for us and scores 200 goals.

I hope Hogan gets another chance and starts scoring goals like he did for Brentford.

I except he might not, he might turn out to be all the things you claim, I'd rather be optimistic and 'wait and see'.

[Keener window-cleaner]

9 hours ago, TRO said:

I think its an interesting debate....is it the manager or is it the player?.....all will be revealed.

With his injury record and with probably being behind Abraham and Kodjia, I think there is a risk that it wont be revealed... but if others play better and scores for us I'm as happy with that.

Just a few other takes in general, Hogan has come on as a sub several times for us which makes his statistics worse. If you look at starts he has 7 goals in 28 starts in the league and 3 goals in 3 games in the cups for us. And I think most sites (and Bruce?) say he cost £9M not £12M. 

[Stevo985]

3 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

so you say he hasn't scored goals and then say he's scored 7?????

I hope RHM plays 200 games for us and scores 200 goals.

I hope Hogan gets another chance and starts scoring goals like he did for Brentford.

I except he might not, he might turn out to be all the things you claim, I'd rather be optimistic and 'wait and see'.

Sorry I didn't realise we were being literal. Yeah Scott Hogan has scored goals. He's scored 7 in 50 appearances. I don't think that's a great return.

I hope the things you hope. Of course I do.

But if we just "wait and see" for everything then this place would be a very quiet forum. 

[Keyblade]

11 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

And I think it's perfectly justifiable to think that he is a striker who has had one small purple patch at a decent level but isn't actually very good.

Like I said, having Smith here will be the ultimate proof either way. There won't be any excuses left if he continues to be shit.

I hope you're right and he turns it around and transforms back into that prolific championship striker he was briefly. I suspect he won't, but I'll be thrilled if I'm wrong.

I think @bobzy already mentioned this, but he was better than 1 in 2 for his entire professional career before joining us. That's not just one small purple patch.

Knowing that, I think the much safer presupposition, especially given who our previous manager was, would be that he's been woefully mismanaged in his time here.

[VillanousOne]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

Sorry I didn't realise we were being literal. Yeah Scott Hogan has scored goals. He's scored 7 in 50 appearances. I don't think that's a great return.

I hope the things you hope. Of course I do.

But if we just "wait and see" for everything then this place would be a very quiet forum. 

i only say weight and see because surely we will find out pretty soon whether Hogan can do a job for us or if he is out of his depth.

I guess i am hopeful not just because we now have Dean Smith the man for whom Hogan shone, but also because we have three decent wingers who should if actually played (not all at once) be able to put some chances on a plate for Hogan (plus Grealish, Plus McGinn if we actually again utilise midfield properly), also assuming we play on the front foot and not the tedious, ponderous pace of attack we have exhibited most of the last two years.

Modern football probably doesn't have room for an old fashioned box hogging finisher who contributes little else but taps in from close range and that is what Hogan could well be.

RHM so far has run around like a headless chicken, not sure he's even managed a shot on target, but that could also be in part down to the fact he hasn't started enough or been coached properly in a  formation he could shine in. Could be he just needs more game time, needs to learn, adapt and grow as a player. Probably a bit of all those things.

come to think of it haven't both he and Hogan been injured a hell of a lot also?
 

Edited October 19, 2018 by VillanousOne