Steve Bruce

[terrytini]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

I think what Steve Bruce has done in bringing in John Terry,Ahmed Elmohamady & Glen Whelan is remarkable.....(it hasn't finished yet either, the four hierarchy will not rest until we have sufficient strength.)

all 3 players could have signed for premier league clubs.

 

Completely agree he - or whoever - has done a very good job getting these guys, particularly Terry.

They have signed for a mid table Championship Club and as you rightly say could all have stayed in the Premier League, but not just that - after all we wouldn't think it remarkable had we signed Westwood and he fits that description too - they have all been very significant players at their previous Clubs.

Very much a 'coup' for me - *3

[terrytini]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

Had Steve Bruce had said to the reporter, " its ok he wasn't in my plans to play much anyway, so nothing is lost".......what then.

There would have been manuscripts written of what a so and so Steve Bruce is.

The mind boggles on occasions on here.

you would think he still is the Blues manager.

Yes but that would've been worthy of criticism ! 

He didn't have to go to either extreme.

The problem with what he said is that 

(a) it isn't born out by having watched the team, and 

(b) it would be a very foolish idea to build your whole pre season around one ( not particularly consistent) player.

You say the mind boggles but unless you think he wasn't telling the truth (which would have to be a guess) MY mind boggles that you can't find any issue with it !

You have said many times you don't exempt him from criticism .... even if you are fine with his comments SURELY you can at least see why someone could find them odd ?

Ive heard 1001 comments from Managers who have lost players to injury.

I have never before heard one say " oh cobblers I'd built all my plans around him"

You don't think it's even remotely understandable to query it ?

My mind boggles !

[Tomaszk]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

I think what Steve Bruce has done in bringing in John Terry,Ahmed Elmohamady & Glen Whelan is remarkable.....(it hasn't finished yet either, the four hierarchy will not rest until we have sufficient strength.)

all 3 players could have signed for premier league clubs.

all will be revealed from Saturday onwards.....but equally a few other teams will have something to say too, it will take a fight to succeed.

He hasn't charmed them into bed to get them to sign. Certainly Terry and Whelan have signed on very very large wages. If he'd got them both on 25k a week I'd give him more credit.

He's been the best backed manager in the league since he joined. He's been better backed than most Premier League managers since he joined.

Promotion is a must and Bruce has been less than adequate so far. It's so been so disappointing watching him serve up garbage with the squad available. I'd wouldn't shed a tear if he left today. I'm convinced he's missing a decent coach in his management team - a new appointment in that department could rejuvenate us, and leave Bruce to what are hopefully his strengths... managing the squad.

But here we are. He's not going to be leaving before Christmas and the season starts this week.

If we play the same way this year and go up, I still hope we replace him. I'm sick of not enjoying watching Villa.

[DaveAV1]

If we're looking at excuses being made before the season starts, then I'm not sure his comments on Grealish should be top of the pile. I'd agree more with Terry's above comment (b). I'm more inclined to regard comments on FFP as getting excuses in early. I'm not however suggesting for a moment that FFP is not an issue.

What I am suggesting is that SB has somewhat contributed to the problem with FFP. He has signed some expensive players who as yet have not lived up to their billing, hopefully he will resolve that and those players will improve dramatically starting from Saturday. It must be said though that signing an injury prone Scott Hogan and then playing a style that has no chance of getting the best out of him isn't really an example of brilliant use of the market. 

Secondly his handling of RMC hasn't really been overly clever. Yes I believe RMC has a problem and the finger of blame should be pointed firmly at him for his failure to perform. What does concern me is the public way in which it has been handled. This kind of thing is very much a behind closed doors matter. If we'd have done that I'm sure it would be much easier to get a decent fee for him. Going public may possibly have been a way of giving him a kick up the backside, it could equally have been a manager saying, "look he's out of order, I didn't sign him, nothing to do with me Guv". Either way it's an expensive mistake. 

[markavfc40]

8 hours ago, terrytini said:

Yes I'm not knocking it, I'm just amazed that anyone could be supremely confident of ANYTHING in football.

 

Terry as it was me that used the line supremely confident and TRO just agreed with me then I feel I should answer this mate.

I could write an essay as to why I believe Bruce failed to do what he had done many times before and excel in this league last season but I’d just being going over old ground and I think the time for that has gone.

Bottom line is that I look at us and I see we have an owner with big ambitions who has backed us and I believe will continue to, we have a manager with a fantastic record in this division, we have the best on pitch leader of his generation and we have a squad overall as good as anything in this division. If that combined isn't enough to inspire us and get our backing then I don't know what will. Results over the next couple of months may make my confidence look misplaced and me look foolish but as things stand three days before the start of the season all of the above is enough to make me supremely confident we will be successful this season.

[Tommo_b]

From a fan base point of view based off VillaTalk, this has been the most depressing pre-season ever, everyone just seems to have daggers out for the manager already!

We are in danger of being the reason we don't get promoted! 

Like @TRO has said before, last season was a massive rebuilding job, I honestly believe the greatest manager in the World wouldn't have got us promoted last season, so can we not all just give him and the club a clean slate for the start of this season, then if he isn't performing we can call for his head?

[markavfc40]

6 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

 

He's been the best backed manager in the league since he joined. He's been better backed than most Premier League managers since he joined.

 

As he? In January Hourihane, Lansbury, Bree were brought in for pretty much what we sold Gestede for, Taylor was swapped for Ayew with cash also coming our way. The big outlay was Hogan at around 12 mill.

Over the summer we have made a decent profit due to selling Baker, Veretout and Sanchez bringing in approx 12 mill and spending around 2.5 mill bringing in Elmohamady and Whelan.

Overall I’d say Bruce has balanced the books and is therefore not even close to being the best backed manager in this league never mind better backed than most Premier League managers.

Edited August 2, 2017 by markavfc40

[Demitri_C]

I didnt see too much wrong with Bruce's conment about Grealish just trying to keep the guy abit more positive while he recovers.

But for me grealish is not the difference between promotion or not.

[a m ole]

It appeared to me that all the play while he was on the pitch against Watford was geared to go through Jack. It worked as well. And the 45 against Hertha, wasn't as obvious but we won it 2-0.

It's hard to say that in the games we played they were focused around him as he's only played around 60 minutes. That doesn't mean they weren't doing so on the training pitch. Pre-season is more than the friendly games.

Over the top reaction, in my opinion.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

On the same day as the Grealish comment he said he's confident of automatic promotion. It's just man management, no surprise too much is being read into it. 

[PieFacE]

What Grealish comment? 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

I'm fairly confident he has made a profit as Villa manager so far?

[USA_Villa]

OK, cards on the table. I was bitterly disappointed when we appointed Steve Bruce last year as I thought we had given it to the wrong guy. My choice was Dean Smith, which was confirmed when Brentford caned us 3-0, and finished above us in the table even after gaining 12 million by selling us Hogan. With that being said, he will always have my support, and I hope and pray for a Villa win every week. 

I've read on here about us rebuilding. I'm afraid I don't see anything of the sort. What I see is a manager, making short-term decisions, and who has bought in a number of seasoned and very expensive experienced players. My only hope is that (A) they are for more than just the money (In Terry, I don't believe that's the case), and (B) we have a side that is capable of scoring goals. My real worry is the latter. I do keep an eye to see what Brentford are doing, and they have managed to score 17 goals pre-season playing against teams like Southampton and Celta Vigo. We on the other hand have struggled to score.

What I want to see is a good start, so that I can look forward to the next game each week with a confidence that we will score goals and get results. And, if this happens I will say all hail our mighty leader who had a vision, and made all the right decisions. However, if we are poor to average, and languishing mid-table after a dozen or so games, I think we have to cut the cord quickly and decisively. If we have to do that, and I'm really hoping we don't, just give Brentford and Dean smith a call.

[DaveAV1]

17 minutes ago, USA_Villa said:

OK, cards on the table. I was bitterly disappointed when we appointed Steve Bruce last year as I thought we had given it to the wrong guy. My choice was Dean Smith, which was confirmed when Brentford caned us 3-0, and finished above us in the table even after gaining 12 million by selling us Hogan. With that being said, he will always have my support, and I hope and pray for a Villa win every week. 

I've read on here about us rebuilding. I'm afraid I don't see anything of the sort. What I see is a manager, making short-term decisions, and who has bought in a number of seasoned and very expensive experienced players. My only hope is that (A) they are for more than just the money (In Terry, I don't believe that's the case), and (B) we have a side that is capable of scoring goals. My real worry is the latter. I do keep an eye to see what Brentford are doing, and they have managed to score 17 goals pre-season playing against teams like Southampton and Celta Vigo. We on the other hand have struggled to score.

What I want to see is a good start, so that I can look forward to the next game each week with a confidence that we will score goals and get results. And, if this happens I will say all hail our mighty leader who had a vision, and made all the right decisions. However, if we are poor to average, and languishing mid-table after a dozen or so games, I think we have to cut the cord quickly and decisively. If we have to do that, and I'm really hoping we don't, just give Brentford and Dean smith a call.

I think this is an excellent post. I'm neither for or against Dean Smith, but I do believe he is the right sort of manager we should be looking at to take us forward. Young, ambitious and with fresh ideas. If someone like that comes in after a dozen games or so, we will obviously be playing catchup like last season. However we have to stop attempting quick fixes and find someone who will grow with us and build his vision of Aston Villa. Of course that might take time and the modern world is an impatient world, but we have to eventually find a man for the future and not from the past.

Of course if we follow your advice and go for Dean Smith, his claret and blue allegiance is already in place and so that may help buy him a little more time and understanding him being one of our own. Despite the clear madness that is the Premier League, comments from Daniel Levy last week may indicate that the tide may eventually turn towards a slightly less insane approach and give a more organic view of football management, on and off the pitch, a chance. Whilst I'm not holding my breath there may be a glimmer of light there somewhere. (Cue Spurs paying £80m for a promising 15 year old!). 

[omariqy]

What happened to using youth and trimming the squad? None of them have even got squad numbers.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

15 minutes ago, omariqy said:

What happened to using youth and trimming the squad? None of them have even got squad numbers.

Probably because we haven't gotten rid of as many seniors as we would have liked to yet I would assume.

So we may as well use them until something changes.

[Villarocker]

12 hours ago, TRO said:

I think what Steve Bruce has done in bringing in John Terry,Ahmed Elmohamady & Glen Whelan is remarkable.....(it hasn't finished yet either, the four hierarchy will not rest until we have sufficient strength.)

all 3 players could have signed for premier league clubs.

all will be revealed from Saturday onwards.....but equally a few other teams will have something to say too, it will take a fight to succeed.

Mate, I hear what you are saying with regards to Bruce attracting these players to the club but is it really that much of an achievement to get them here?

Terry wanted to play outside of the Premier League and how many other Championship clubs would have been able to pay him the kind of wages he will be earning plus, have the prestige that we have?

Did Whelan have many PL suitors for him? Even if there was other clubs after him he would have been on decent money at Stoke so maybe any PL clubs after him didn't fancy paying that kind of wage and we did? 

Elmohamady probably wasn't so well sought after and he has worked with Bruce before and obviously has a rapport with him so that's no big surprise either.

Even if Bruce did do great in attracting those players to the club, I can remember how Veretout was asking "who are Leicester City?" when he came to us and look at the difference between us and them that season!

Just because these players have chosen us it doesn't necessarily mean we are going to be a better football club on the pitch. That's not me knocking the players or Bruce for signing them, it's just me stating the obvious that those players might turn out to be bad as much as they could be good - time will tell. I guess I just would have been much happier had we changed a couple of coaches or maybe brought in attacking players that could create chances because last season showed how badly we lacked creativity in the final third and I am not sure that we have addressed that this summer. But, the window isn't shut yet and that could still change.

For now, I have seen nothing to make me think that we won't see the season start off with another 0-0 or 1-1 draw.

 

[TRO]

14 hours ago, terrytini said:

Ok. 

(Not that it matters but I'm sure you know bookmakers odds reflect money spent as much as anything.)

I'm just saying after watching football for 50 years I would never, ever, be supremely confident of anything.

Even just the other night I rewatched the Cup game from a few years ago when Newcastle came back - with 10 men- from 0-3 to beat Spurs. That was funny !

And if I was it'd have to be a much much bigger certainty than a team going from 31 points off promotion to promotion in one summer !

There have been hundreds of far safer bets fail !

(For my part, I'm mildly optimistic but wouldn't be suprised if we didn't)

not saying bookmakers have it always right, but they got it round about right last season......and they get more right than wrong......just another pointer in many.

as you know Terry, I believe in Steve Bruce for where we are, I may change that view when we are mid table premiership, but even then we have to be sure ( as sure as we can)we are getting  someone better.

I agree nothing is for sure....its opinions.

some say but how can you be sure, perhaps we gain faith in different things.

personally now we have improved important parts of the team, i think a no10 and a target man is what we need.....that may be a bridge too far, but I do subscribe to the comments we need more attacking strength, particularly with our most accomplished player rehabilitating.

[TRO]

15 hours ago, terrytini said:

Completely agree he - or whoever - has done a very good job getting these guys, particularly Terry.

They have signed for a mid table Championship Club and as you rightly say could all have stayed in the Premier League, but not just that - after all we wouldn't think it remarkable had we signed Westwood and he fits that description too - they have all been very significant players at their previous Clubs.

Very much a 'coup' for me - *3

Terry, I cannot believe Steve Bruce is oblivious to the offensive concerns.....we just have to wait and see what they all do.

[bannedfromHandV]

14 hours ago, terrytini said:

Yes but that would've been worthy of criticism ! 

He didn't have to go to either extreme.

The problem with what he said is that 

(a) it isn't born out by having watched the team, and 

(b) it would be a very foolish idea to build your whole pre season around one ( not particularly consistent) player.

You say the mind boggles but unless you think he wasn't telling the truth (which would have to be a guess) MY mind boggles that you can't find any issue with it !

You have said many times you don't exempt him from criticism .... even if you are fine with his comments SURELY you can at least see why someone could find them odd ?

Ive heard 1001 comments from Managers who have lost players to injury.

I have never before heard one say " oh cobblers I'd built all my plans around him"

You don't think it's even remotely understandable to query it ?

My mind boggles !

I think anyone who even tries to read into or second guess comments made by a Manager these days is on a path to insanity.

 

I'd suggest the vast majority of what they say is done so on a whim and rarely equates to truth.

 

They're practically masters of soundbites and textbook responses, in my opinion it's rare you hear any major truths.