Steve Bruce

[sheepyvillian]

2 hours ago, Villan_of_oz said:

Fixed

And that one .

[Godders]

@blandy I've been thinking about the coaching side this morning. Mainly as a result of another post asking what will be different in the pre-season that will mean we're better next season. This is the conclusion I've reached:

In the Championship, you're lucky if you get 7 days between matches. Now of those 7 days, one will be matchday, so no meaningful training will be done, which leaves 6. 1 though is probably going to be light recovery from the previous match, so that's 5 days, maybe half a day travelling is 4 and a half days. The players are still human, so they're not going to be able to train at full near match intensity solidly for those 4 and a half days- they'll need recovery in between, otherwise we risk many more injuries than we have.

In a week where we have no midweek game, we'd be lucky to have more than 2 days where the players can train at a high enough intensity that somewhat resembles a match. The rest will be lighter sessions, video analysis etc I imagine.

But all these spare days will be spent preparing for the next game. The defense will be drilling in their offside trap if they're up against a striker who likes to make late runs in behind. The full backs and wingers will be drilling in pushing high up the pitch if the next opposition tend to leave a lot of space on the flanks.

My point is that there really is very little time during the season to do anything other than specifically prepare for the next match. Yes, I agree coaching is a major factor in the way we're playing. I think that's far more to do with the time constraints imposed by the season though.

The age old adage though is that a good team is built from the back. It's reasonable to suggest that what little time during the season Bruce has had to work on a style of play, he's used to make us better defensively, and that looks like it's worked with that run we had recently. Given a pre-season, where has time to implement his vision without worrying about making sure the team are simply doing drills to try and beat the next opponent, we should see improvement in the way we're playing going forward.

 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

6 hours ago, vreitti said:

Sadly I've played for more than 25 years. Actually lost our season opener yesterday. If only we'd have had Bruce to oversee our preseason.

Someone do a search for Finnish players we have ever had at Villa, if any.

Then search for Finnish players Bruce has managed if any.

Then search for shite Finnish players matching both the above criteria.

The EXPOSING of Vreitti (If you are Finnish and not just in Finland)

Edited April 26, 2017 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[bobzy]

1 minute ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Someone do a search for Finnish players we have ever had at Villa, if any.

Then search for Finnish players Bruce has managed if any.

Then search for shite Finnish players matching both the above criteria.

The EXPOSING of Vreitti (If you are Finnish and not just in Finland)

Peter Enckelman, no?

 

[villalad21]

Never rated Bruce as a manager. I see him as a championship manager, but in the premier league he is clueless. I hope Tony don't see Steve as a long term solution.

[Godders]

3 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

I see him as a championship manager

That's handy then, we're a championship club.

[srsmithusa]

2 hours ago, blandy said:

It's well reasoned as always, and I accept there's some truth and validity in the argument, but I'm not sure I really agree with the analysis.

I mean on Chester and Baker being defensive players and the only ones that have had to build up an understanding with those around them - well that's not true at all. The new goalkeeper, new left back, whoever is at right back Hutton/Bacuna etc. - all the defenders have to build up an understanding with each other. So, not for me, that one.

Kodjia, well yes and no. It's true that he's a rare type of forward who is able to make himself some opportunity to score in a game or to pick up on defensive errors often enough to have scored a fair few goals that way and so stand out.

I think the coaching of the defense since Bruce came in has been decent (or better than decent) - initially Bruce on his own, and then later Calderwood, a former defender himself. I think the reason the midfield and forwards apart from Kodjia haven't looked so good is less to do with having been here since January and much more to do with coaching and inconsistent team selection (not always avoidable, I accept). It looks like there is not enough time and work and know how being spent on getting midfielders and forwards to establish patterns of movement, play, runs, passing and so on. It looks like time spent on defensive work and on set pieces has had effect, but that there's something lacking in general offensive play.

There's been no improvement whatsoever in that area. None. I don't think there will be unless the coaching is improved in that area. That might happen in the summer and sure, players will come to understand each others' games better (all over the pitch) as long as the squad doesn't completely change again via "a lot of work to do on getting people out" and bringing new faces in, or through from the youth teams...

But for me, coaching is a major factor.

Blandy, when I keep banging my drum that I don't think I see Bruce doing enough to change the culture, your post states perfectly a part of what I see.  

" It looks like there is not enough time and work and know how being spent on getting midfielders and forwards to establish patterns of movement, play, runs, passing and so on"  

Our culture had/has become one of a general lack of discipline and lack of commitment.  When that is the case, you can't just let players move freely as they feel in the moment.  You have to "establish patterns of movement, play, runs, passing and so on."  There is little to no evidence on the pitch that this is happening.  To an earlier post, it's easier to do that in a pre-season.  But my God, you could make miles of headway with an hour long classroom with drawings and charts followed by 2 hours on the training pitch walking through the motions, then half speed, then full speed, then with an opponent.  Progress can still be made rapidly.   But I'm not seeing it.  I'm glad Bruce and others see it's missing, too.  But you don't just wish for these things.  You coach them.  Or at least you should.  

Edited April 26, 2017 by srsmithusa

[Stevo985]

2 hours ago, bobzy said:

Terrible post - so unnecessarily condescending.

Sorry, it was late where I am. Probably too harsh.

 

However I do find the opinion that nothing happens in pre-season to be pretty baffling. That's what I was getting at. I am surprised that someone who has played football for 25 years, at whatever level, doesn't think pre-season CAN (not necessarily does) make a huge difference.

[Stevo985]

24 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Never rated Bruce as a manager. I see him as a championship manager, but in the premier league he is clueless. I hope Tony don't see Steve as a long term solution.

Again, people seem to think having Bruce NOW means we have him forever.

We don't need him to be our manager in the prem. We need him to get us there and maybe keep us there for a year.

Then we can move on.

[briny_ear]

36 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Never rated Bruce as a manager. I see him as a championship manager, 

That's quite handy, since we are a championship side.

[vreitti]

52 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Peter Enckelman, no?

 

He's probably the only one. He's actually playing in the same "league" nowadays, albeit in an upper division. I'm hoping we advance for next season, so I can get a chance to repay the "slight mishap" against the scum. Some scars never heal.

I do think we also have a Finnish youngster Sundman, nowadays, but I know nothing about him. SCG can probably shed some light on the subject.

Ps. sorry for the off-topic.

[mykeyb]

Nice to see a good Champioship manager at the club next season..........can Bruce step up?

[vreitti]

33 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Sorry, it was late where I am. Probably too harsh.

 

However I do find the opinion that nothing happens in pre-season to be pretty baffling. That's what I was getting at. I am surprised that someone who has played football for 25 years, at whatever level, doesn't think pre-season CAN (not necessarily does) make a huge difference.

Did I say 'nothing' happens during preseason? 

I just happen to think the importance of a preseason is greatly exaggerated by some.

[blandy]

1 hour ago, Godders said:

...My point is that there really is very little time during the season to do anything other than specifically prepare for the next match. Yes, I agree coaching is a major factor in the way we're playing. I think that's far more to do with the time constraints imposed by the season though....

I liked your post. Like Mark's it's well reasoned and fair. I think we're agreed that the time spent on coaching of attacking play is a factor.

It's maybe uncharitable of me to think that the quality of the coaching is not as good as I'd like (after all I don't get to see the coaching activities) but I do percieve the style of play to be turgid, laboured and ineffective. Maybe that's the limit of what is possible under the circs...but I can't help but think that actually for a squad of players with the capabilities and talent that ours have  - much of it natural - that what's on offer is sub par.

To have the goalscoring record we do that is so dependent on one player is something that absolutely (IMO) is a priority to address. It's at least as important as defensive issues and deserving of at least as much effort and time being spent on resolving it.

[Stevo985]

27 minutes ago, vreitti said:

Did I say 'nothing' happens during preseason? 

I just happen to think the importance of a preseason is greatly exaggerated by some.

I inferred it from your post.

Anyway, apologies for the tone of my original reply.

[dn1982]

Our season has been over for a few weeks and I along with others wanted Bruce to use the games we had as an extended preseason. A lot on here thought getting results is more important. That's all fair enough but what's the difference come actual preseason? You want to get your players fit and confident so trying things out then would've been the same as doing it now surely? We will know a lot about how we will be playing next year if Jedinak is still a key component. He is brilliant and what he does but having him in the team isn't good for our football in general. If he is a big part I think it'll be us grinding out results rather than us playing teams off the park. I said last week if we won v Blues Bruce will have a lot more leeway with the fans and that's the case but we were awful. We've 2 games left and I hope he throws a couple of kids in but I doubt he will. Let's hope Bruce not experimenting a bit more now doesn't hurt us next season when it'll matter. 

[Stevo985]

57 minutes ago, vreitti said:

Did I say 'nothing' happens during preseason? 

I just happen to think the importance of a preseason is greatly exaggerated by some.

Another thing to say is I don't think we need a HUGE change in pre season. Bruce has turned our team around. Granted it's not gone as well as many of us thought it could, but he's still done it, and he's still produced close to play off form since he's been here.

We don't need a MASSIVE improvement over the summer to be a challenger next season. I don't think it's crazy to suggest that a solid pre-season with a relatively settled squad could be the catalyst to a promotion season

[blandy]

44 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

he's still produced close to play off form since he's been here.

We don't need a MASSIVE improvement over the summer to be a challenger next season. I don't think it's crazy to suggest that a solid pre-season with a relatively settled squad could be the catalyst to a promotion season

I don't think the first claim stands up. He's produced mid table form - sort of quite a way outside play off form (let alone winning the play-offs form, and definitely not autmoatic promotion form).

Also, on the second part, Bruce seems to think he's still got a massive/major job to do to get to where he wants to be 

That said, I hope you're right on the third part. He deserves the chance to go for it.

[TRO]

On 4/25/2017 at 16:26, srsmithusa said:

I wish I could have been there too.  I've been involved in changing organizational culture a few times.  It's never easy.  I have grown to giving Bruce more benefit of the doubt that maybe it's different in what is essentially the entertainment industry.  His methods would never work in the education field. I would feel more confident if you had left off the phrase...

"that does not mean he can fix it with what he has otherwise, he would"  That's what scares me.  He has not IMO "fixed it" with what he has (or what he got in January).  But "what we have" is all any of us have (hope that's not too confusing.)   As I've said, I think that IS the culture that needs to be fixed.  "We're doing the best we can given our current situation."  ALWAYS becomes an excuse for mediocrity.  Or in this case, bland, uninspiring performances with an improved point return.

I can't change that line because I believe it.

If it turns out we have bought wrong, he has to fix it......you perhaps may have more time in your industry to make the right decisions on recruitment.

He came in on the back of one win in 15  and had to make us hard to beat...........He then limped in to Jan and went for the populist signings.

We will see if it was right.

[sheepyvillian]

5 hours ago, Nigel said:

Hmmm theres a lesson here somewhere!

Brings to mind that old XTC song .