Steve Bruce

[KSV]

Will really need to depend on our signings. Get in a more solid keeper and centre back.. we need a giant with a bit of mobility next to Chester. We need a younger Jedinak. A winger and a striker or two (if McCormack and god forbid Kodjia goes)

 

 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

30 minutes ago, AshVilla said:

I've seen nothing to suggest that we will be tearing up the division next season going up automatically like we should be.

 

For the record, I'm not sure anyone has said that they have?

[Villarocker]

57 minutes ago, AshVilla said:

I've seen nothing to suggest that we will be tearing up the division next season going up automatically like we should be.

 

Me neither. I guess we are basing all hopes on:

1) Player changes in the summer.

2) Pre-season training and friendlies bringing about a change in playing style.

3) Player improvement and familiarity.

It's not too big an ask and you could expect that new recruits would improve us, training without games in between should improve us and, player improvement for us as well as them becoming more familiar through pre-season should also improve us. But, that all needs to happen otherwise we would all be forgiven for thinking we are in for another familiar season.

[Grasshopper]

6 hours ago, villan_007 said:

I'm still in the Bruce in camp, and I can see where the Bruce out people are at. I'd like to ask @Grasshopper and @vreitti about how they feel about that great point on the previous page.

Last seasons bottom 8 being the majority of this yrs top 6. Just reading about Wagners first half season at Huddersfield, they were terrible and almost dropped.

Do you not think it warrants sticking to our guns, getting a proper pre-season in and letting Bruce do what he does in this league?

No

[mykeyb]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

How do you know, he is not doing those things......We don't know, what he is doing at BMH.

There are too many if's buts and maybe's.

We dont to be honest, but if he is it sint effective which raises a more alarming point that his coaching is totally ineffective. Which is worse?

[vreitti]

7 hours ago, villan_007 said:

I'm still in the Bruce in camp, and I can see where the Bruce out people are at. I'd like to ask @Grasshopper and @vreitti about how they feel about that great point on the previous page.

Last seasons bottom 8 being the majority of this yrs top 6. Just reading about Wagners first half season at Huddersfield, they were terrible and almost dropped.

Do you not think it warrants sticking to our guns, getting a proper pre-season in and letting Bruce do what he does in this league?

Honestly, I'd rather not jump to conclusions based upon how other teams have turned around their fortunes. A preseason might have helped them out immensely; then again, they might have already had other 'foundations' better in order before that, regardless of said league position last season. I really wouldn't know, as I don't follow other championship clubs all that closely. 

I can see the reasoning for sticking with Bruce, but I think his previous record of promotions is a rather weak argument, as circumstances this time are different, and for the umpteenth time, I really haven’t seen any progress from a strict ‘style of play’ perspective, that would fill me with confidence that he actually knows what he’s doing.

If he’s given more time, a proper preseason, more money, etc., sure he might develop a much needed ‘style of play’ that’ll ultimately improve performances. However, I just feel we are an attractive enough prospect as a club, that we would be able to get in an even better manager, one that’ll be able to hit the ground running.

Promotion next season (for me) is a must, and the likelihood of that happening will not diminish with a new manager in the summer. In addition, the squad is now good enough that a major overhaul isn’t needed anymore, imho.

For the record, we could be way worse off than Steve Bruce. In fact, we’ve been so, for the last 6 years.

Edited April 27, 2017 by vreitti

[Grasshopper]

6 hours ago, villan_007 said:

I'm still in the Bruce in camp, and I can see where the Bruce out people are at. I'd like to ask @Grasshopper and @vreitti about how they feel about that great point on the previous page.

Last seasons bottom 8 being the majority of this yrs top 6. Just reading about Wagners first half season at Huddersfield, they were terrible and almost dropped.

Do you not think it warrants sticking to our guns, getting a proper pre-season in and letting Bruce do what he does in this league?

But being more specific.

I have seen NOTHING to suggest or convince me that he is able or prepared to changing the current playing philosophy.

When "it" works (whatever "it" can be described as) it's a "backs to the wall, nick a setpiece or Kodjiacianship" that we are pinning hopes on. Against some of the shit in this league it may work.

When "it" doesn't work, we piss into the wind and can't get a win for love nor money (over a series of matches).

Of all the players he has at his disposal and the "new" players bought in, he dumbs them down to his style rather than frees them up to blossom on the pitch.

A lot of fans are clinging on to the hope that "things will change/get better" even though 30+ games and 7+ months has shown not a single change in game philosophy.

A spade is a spade, once a spade always a spade.

In regard to other managers mentioned. They are managers still on their own particular learning curve, developing as they gain experience and ambition.

Bruce is/was and always will be Bruce. A manager with a set philosophy not capable or interested in changing to suit, develop or progress.

He is not the man for us. It's no consolation to watch it all unfold before our very own eyes, wasting precious time waiting for the frog to turn into a prince.

[rubberman]

2 hours ago, sne said:

For this great transformation to happen during the pre season this summer we need the players to stay focused and fit during their weeks off.

We can't have players drunkenly falling asleep in the middle of the road, players gaining loads of weight, and we also need to do most if not all of our transfer dealings early.

Discipline is key,not something Villa players have been great at in recent years.

Otherwise we'll have to spend time getting players back into shape instead of training on the things we need to improve like developing a semblance of cohesion in attack and possession.

A 8 week preseason (doubt our attacking will improve much while the players are on holiday) quickly becomes a 4 week preseason if the energy and focus is wasted on the wrong things.

If we like last season do most of our transfer dealings during the last 2 weeks of August, well then it's even harder.

 

Spot on.  I hope the players are sent off with targets for the shape they need to be in when reporting back and expectations for what they are not supposed to get up to.

Ideally we will have identified the 3 or 4 key players we want to bring in and will get that business done fast.  Spend the rest of the window sorting out the 'outs', while working on the way we want to play next season.  Really hope we get to start the season with a couple of home games, (not on TV!), so we can get early momentum established.

Also on my next season wishlist is to administer a couple of routs -> 4+ goals.

I'm still in the meh camp about Bruce.  I think he's done a lot, but also not enough.  Needs to start strong next season - there'll be no excuses.

[mykeyb]

40 minutes ago, villarocker said:

Me neither. I guess we are basing all hopes on:

1) Player changes in the summer.

2) Pre-season training and friendlies bringing about a change in playing style.

3) Player improvement and familiarity.

 

The trouble is that:

1) Player changes in January have had minimal effect.

2) This seems to be the "big white hope" to be honest

3) I dont think I am being harsh when I say there is very little sign of that having happened for our front 5 so far, defensively I would say possibly but then without Jedinak our form was abysmal.

[vreitti]

3 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

I don't think it can be exaggerated. SIX WEEKS training and only training, drilling tactics and fitness into them with no distractions. No taking over another managers mess and trying to correct his mistakes on the hoof with a game every other fecking day and international breaks to contend with, which unlike most Championship clubs has been a genuine problem for us. If anything I think it's massively underestimated just how important it can be.

Of course he might use that time to make things worse, we shall see. 

And we know for a fact that this is what's going to be the case?

I'll admit, I've got absolutely no clue what actually occurs during preseason at this level. It's all assumptions and blind hope for me. 

However, I can't remember a season were we've come out all guns blazing, filled with confidence, playing teams of the park. My memory is most likely selective here, as we've had to endure all sorts of turgid shit for more years than I care to remember.

[mykeyb]

17 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

But being more specific.

I have seen NOTHING to suggest or convince me that he is able or prepared to changing the current playing philosophy.

When "it" works (whatever "it" can be described as) it's a "backs to the wall, nick a setpiece or Kodjiacianship" that we are pinning hopes on. Against some of the shit in this league it may work.

When "it" doesn't work, we piss into the wind and can't get a win for love nor money (over a series of matches).

Of all the players he has at his disposal and the "new" players bought in, he dumbs them down to his style rather than frees them up to blossom on the pitch.

A lot of fans are clinging on to the hope that "things will change/get better" even though 30+ games and 7+ months has shown not a single change in game philosophy.

A spade is a spade, once a spade always a spade.

In regard to other managers mentioned. They are managers still on their own particular learning curve, developing as they gain experience and ambition.

Bruce is/was and always will be Bruce. A manager with a set philosophy not capable or interested in changing to suit, develop or progress.

He is not the man for us. It's no consolation to watch it all unfold before our very own eyes, wasting precious time waiting for the frog to turn into a prince.

Sadly I am in total agreement with you.

The fanciful idea that Steve knows whats wrong but has made us hard to beat to improve confidence but in the summer will have us playing a more effective attacking game is a pipe dream. Trouble is that some of the fans who are either still in favour of keeping Bruce or at best undecided are now saying things like "I will give him the first 6 games", "he will have to get of to a great start", not exactly firm backing of the manager.

 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

7 minutes ago, vreitti said:

And we know for a fact that this is what's going to be the case?

I'll admit, I've got absolutely no clue what actually occurs during preseason at this level. It's all assumptions and blind hope for me. 

However, I can't remember a season were we've come out all guns blazing, filled with confidence, playing teams of the park. My memory is most likely selective here, as we've had to endure all sorts of turgid shit for more years than I care to remember.

That isn't really the point. 

As none of us have played professional football at a high level I'd say we don't know anything for a fact, no. Touche. 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

I bet if you took a poll of the wider fan base less than 5% would advocate sacking Bruce. 

I'm not saying anything beyond that, I'm just saying. 

[TRO]

45 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

We dont to be honest, but if he is it sint effective which raises a more alarming point that his coaching is totally ineffective. Which is worse?

Or the players are not good enough to respond?

coaching is not the answer to all ills,it is a method of improving what is already there.

It poses questions :

1. has he had time to sufficiently coach to the levels of what is required?

2. Are his coaching methods sufficient?

3. Are the players responding to those methods, if not ,why?

4. Is the team still imbalanced and further players are required to get the best out of the ones we have got?

There are many factors to consider, its our call to which ones we need answering.....we all have our own personal views.

 

 

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

Sadly I am in total agreement with you.

The fanciful idea that Steve knows whats wrong but has made us hard to beat to improve confidence but in the summer will have us playing a more effective attacking game is a pipe dream. Trouble is that some of the fans who are either still in favour of keeping Bruce or at best undecided are now saying things like "I will give him the first 6 games", "he will have to get of to a great start", not exactly firm backing of the manager.

 

each fan is saying what they think and how they see it.....Its not all the same view.

How can we rule out further additions in the summer, will actually spark things off?

I remember us signing Alex Cropley and he transformed the team and the way we played......no evidence of a coaching move......and it was fairly instant after his arrival.

There are many things SB will work on.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, AshVilla said:

I've seen nothing to suggest that we will be tearing up the division next season going up automatically like we should be.

 

None of us have.

[mykeyb]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

Or the players are not good enough to respond?

coaching is not the answer to all ills,it is a method of improving what is already there.

It poses questions :

1. has he had time to sufficiently coach to the levels of what is required?

2. Are his coaching methods sufficient?

3. Are the players responding to those methods, if not ,why?

4. Is the team still imbalanced and further players are required to get the best out of the ones we have got?

There are many factors to consider, its our call to which ones we need answering.....we all have our own personal views.

 

 

I know you put the blame firmly at the foot of the players and none on the manager which I feel is very one sided as not all the players can be "not good enough" at some point you have to ask why our better players are performing so poorly.

Why under Bruce has the "bit in bold" had absolutely bugger all effect,

1. Yes I believe he has had enough time to see some improvement in playing style, improve the pass and move part because if this isnt being done on the training ground then he should be sacked now.

2. No. Plainly not.

3. If they arent then again he should be sacked.

4. Possibly.

[mykeyb]

14 minutes ago, TRO said:

each fan is saying what they think and how they see it.....Its not all the same view.

How can we rule out further additions in the summer, will actually spark things off?

I remember us signing Alex Cropley and he transformed the team and the way we played......no evidence of a coaching move......and it was fairly instant after his arrival.

There are many things SB will work on.

Nearly everyone is saying that come the start of next season there can be no more excuses for him, if some people are only going to give him 6 or so games before deciding he is a dead horse its going to turn nasty quickly if our current style continues.

I am not ruling out further additions improving us but do wonder if the manager has the first clue how to assemble an attacking team.

[vreitti]

29 minutes ago, TRO said:

Or the players are not good enough to respond?

coaching is not the answer to all ills,it is a method of improving what is already there.

It poses questions :

1. has he had time to sufficiently coach to the levels of what is required?

2. Are his coaching methods sufficient?

3. Are the players responding to those methods, if not ,why?

4. Is the team still imbalanced and further players are required to get the best out of the ones we have got?

There are many factors to consider, its our call to which ones we need answering.....we all have our own personal views.

How come most of these players were tearing the league apart before joining us? This 'players are crap' argument simply does not hold water, not even close.

It could be argued they simply don't fit into 'our system', but it's a rather difficult argument to make, as we have no system.

Fact is they aren't performing. Heck Hourihane isn't even starting. 

 

 

 

 

[vreitti]

48 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

That isn't really the point. 

As none of us have played professional football at a high level I'd say we don't know anything for a fact, no. Touche. 

How do you know? @TRO might be Steve Bruce, and I'm fairly certain @Grasshopper is Tim Sherwood.