JE- Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Right here's my summary on the situation. Bruce is not an inspiring choice of manager, we can all admit that. But he has a track record of getting teams promoted there is no denying that but achieving that in 2 thirds of a season with massive transition in 2 windows was always going to be a tall order. So we now see how we end the season. If it's poorly and we just escape relegation then the owners have a big choice to make. If we see improvement game on game and most importantly results improve (which they have) then he will be manager next season so let's just support him hey? Hi mate Well I didn't expect promotion for bruce this season... But what I did expect was a big fight for top 6..His target when appointed was top 6 We are 15th... He's fcked it up 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 3 hours ago, JE- said: Stevo Where are all his clubs he's managed now? What foundation's did he build there for long term success? Zero Man Utd haven't won the league since Ferguson left, so by your argument what foundation did he did build? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JE- Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 19 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said: Man Utd haven't won the league since Ferguson left, so by your argument what foundation did he did build? He didn't build a foundation.. But Fergy had his own foundation hence why when he left united are struggling to create another now hence their own mismanagement Luckily they can keep getting it wrong due to their large revenue streams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted March 9, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted March 9, 2017 Fergie didn't build a foundation? So the 3/4 years where he won **** all at the start he was just dicking about and not building the first of his series of incredibly successful teams? incredible. I am not Bruce's number 1 fan but you can't just say we are where we are because of him, like the first 11 games didn't happen or something. He has had 1 window and no pre-season. I wanted him gone around the time we played Newcastle, and was pretty pissed off after that game but it's not like the totally unbalanced mess he inherited that had only managed one win in 11 was his fault is it? As has been said by others, there are 10 games left now, DCJonah said 17 points, I'd prefer to make that 17+ but still, averaging 1.7 a game next season the whole season should be enough. He has to do enough in these 10 games though, he has to show that we won't be bottom half material at any point next season. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 19 minutes ago, romavillan said: Fergie didn't build a foundation? So the 3/4 years where he won **** all at the start he was just dicking about and not building the first of his series of incredibly successful teams? incredible. I am not Bruce's number 1 fan but you can't just say we are where we are because of him, like the first 11 games didn't happen or something. He has had 1 window and no pre-season. I wanted him gone around the time we played Newcastle, and was pretty pissed off after that game but it's not like the totally unbalanced mess he inherited that had only managed one win in 11 was his fault is it? As has been said by others, there are 10 games left now, DCJonah said 17 points, I'd prefer to make that 17+ but still, averaging 1.7 a game next season the whole season should be enough. He has to do enough in these 10 games though, he has to show that we won't be bottom half material at any point next season. Yep. I think final 10 games is a good period to prove you've got what it takes. If we don't finish strong I don't see us having some miracle turnaround next season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post lapal_fan Posted March 9, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted March 9, 2017 I have read the last 7 or so pages.. and I just can't get my head around it. Some of the denial and extreme selective facts are amazing. Even if you don't like someone, you can probably see something. It seems being "right" is more important. Pretty small minded. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 7 hours ago, markavfc40 said: You’ve answered this pretty much yourself mate with your fourth point but Bruce did very well with the squad he inherited from RDM. They were on a terrible run, low on confidence and he got twice the amount of points the person who put the squad together got in his first 11 games. I think most would agree we were doing well under Bruce up until January. Then he lost Kodjia and Ayew to AFCON, he or the club decided to take advantage of Boro coming in for Gestede, McCormack had started playing silly bastards, RHM got ideas above his station and suddenly we were left with Gabby as the only forward option who had only just got back to anything like full fitness and hadn’t scored in almost a year. I actually think Gabby did pretty well when he came into the side but clearly it left us lacking up top. I think where he arguably did go wrong is making so many changes in January and trying to throw them all in at once. I don’t think for second he or the club envisaged so many incoming and outgoing but opportunities presented themselves, both players becoming available and clubs wanting our players, that as a collective the club felt they had to take advantage of that. For a number of games we then looked like a disjointed mess despite on paper at least it appearing we had a very good squad and much better than the teams we were facing. As we have seen for the last handful of games the more these players have trained and played together the better we have looked. We have shown signs of a very good group of individuals evolving into a team and the rest of the season is all about continuing to do that. Unless we have a poor end to the season then there isn’t a cat in hells chance he won’t be here come kick off in August. I think those at the club are 100% behind him. Wyness has stated they want stability and they believe the best chance of promotion is by giving time to a manager who knows all about what it takes to get clubs out of this division. I am sure they have also been impressed by the initial impact he made here, how he never flinched and looked nothing less than calm and confident during the dire run under him, and how he turned that run around to take 9 points from 12 with improved performances during that run. Time will tell on all this but I think we are heading in the right direction. The squad look way more balanced now than it did when he arrived. A group of individuals are starting to look like a team. Even though it is hard to quantify I think a team spirit is being built as I have seen in recent weeks not only the way they celebrate goals and wins but also in the way they now seem comfortable in giving each other a bollocking when it is deserved. There is, rightly in my opinion, no desire from those at the club to rip things up and start again. This then becomes a wasted season instead of one which was a means to an end and put the foundation in place for promotion next season. With regret, I think you are right about his support and he will stay. Surely that doesn't prohibit me from disagreeing and expressing my view. Or, importantly, hoping like hell that they and he prove me wrong over time. Although, truth be told, I will probably always think that my way would solve the problems faster and more permanently. IMO, our deeper problem is not that our performances are poor, or our results are poor, or that our manager is too traditional, or bad luck, or injuries, or poor coaching, or more preparation. Our core problem is complaency with mediocrity (even if just for now until the mythical key arrives). We learned to be content with good enough under a neglectful owner and that ethos still infects the club at every level. Bruce and every other person at the club needs to be held 100% accountable for things under his or her authority. Rewarded for success and sacked or otherwise brought up for less than outstanding results. Until that happens we will remain a club with great potential but only moderate results. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 55 minutes ago, srsmithusa said: With regret, I think you are right about his support and he will stay. Surely that doesn't prohibit me from disagreeing and expressing my view. Or, importantly, hoping like hell that they and he prove me wrong over time. Although, truth be told, I will probably always think that my way would solve the problems faster and more permanently. IMO, our deeper problem is not that our performances are poor, or our results are poor, or that our manager is too traditional, or bad luck, or injuries, or poor coaching, or more preparation. Our core problem is complaency with mediocrity (even if just for now until the mythical key arrives). We learned to be content with good enough under a neglectful owner and that ethos still infects the club at every level. Bruce and every other person at the club needs to be held 100% accountable for things under his or her authority. Rewarded for success and sacked or otherwise brought up for less than outstanding results. Until that happens we will remain a club with great potential but only moderate results. Give the man time and he will sort it , a bit of patience is required by some - there is no quick fix or magic wand and any new manager would also expect time to develop his own squad of players - we have appointed a proven manager at this level - maybe he deserves to be given the time to sort things rather than some calling for head so soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 3 hours ago, JE- said: Hi mate Well I didn't expect promotion for bruce this season... But what I did expect was a big fight for top 6..His target when appointed was top 6 We are 15th... He's fcked it up There are 11 games to the end of the season, our trajectory has been trending upwards for the past couple weeks. You are putting yourself in a tight spot, since "you didn't expect promotion"", what are you going to latch on to if we finish 7th? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JE- Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 24 minutes ago, Eastie said: Give the man time and he will sort it , a bit of patience is required by some - there is no quick fix or magic wand and any new manager would also expect time to develop his own squad of players - we have appointed a proven manager at this level - maybe he deserves to be given the time to sort things rather than some calling for head so soon. My main issues with the stability and patience crap quit frankly is this.. He's on a rolling contract.. If he was here for us to be 'patient' then why is he not on a 3-4 year deal? It's very evident that he was brought in for the short term only to get us up as quickly as possible namely this season not next season - they wanted him to get into the play offs Considering we are 15th i find this patience and stability talk absolutely incredible and rather a big fat excuse by the board who are now saving face Rdm was wanted by the owner himself and not Wyness and round... They persuaded him to sack rdm to bring in Bruce... To sack Bruce they would probably be looking at the exit door themselves.. Hence why the goal posts have moved 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JE- Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 5 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: There are 11 games to the end of the season, our trajectory has been trending upwards for the past couple weeks. You are putting yourself in a tight spot, since "you didn't expect promotion"", what are you going to latch on to if we finish 7th? lol The fight for top 6 is well and truly over so there will be nothing to worry about regards to this I am afraid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 17 minutes ago, JE- said: My main issues with the stability and patience crap quit frankly is this.. He's on a rolling contract.. If he was here for us to be 'patient' then why is he not on a 3-4 year deal? It's very evident that he was brought in for the short term only to get us up as quickly as possible namely this season not next season - they wanted him to get into the play offs Considering we are 15th i find this patience and stability talk absolutely incredible and rather a big fat excuse by the board who are now saving face Rdm was wanted by the owner himself and not Wyness and round... They persuaded him to sack rdm to bring in Bruce... To sack Bruce they would probably be looking at the exit door themselves.. Hence why the goal posts have moved He was brought in to get us up as soon as possible - given the fact we won 1 iN 11 at the start it was always more likely to be next season than this season - if we don't go up next season then no doubt he will have failed- I think we all know promotion is the aim next season and nothing less will be acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 1 hour ago, lapal_fan said: I have read the last 7 or so pages.. and I just can't get my head around it. Some of the denial and extreme selective facts are amazing. Even if you don't like someone, you can probably see something. It seems being "right" is more important. Pretty small minded. Some seem to think that discussion or debate means 'defend my position at all costs and never concede a point, let alone contemplate changing my mind'. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JE- Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, lexicon said: Some seem to think that discussion or debate means 'defend my position at all costs and never concede a point, let alone contemplate changing my mind'. I don't need to defend my position.. Our league position does that for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, JE- said: Well alot of united fans actually do think this... He got out at the right time etc.. He also has a massive ego and a united fan on Tuesday night also claimed he did what he did to make him look even more of a genius than he already looked The only thing worth laughing at is the apparent unquestionable support Bruce has among alot of villa fans.. Standards on the pitch have clearly dropped and standard off the pitch have clearly also dropped The club was a total shambles from top to bottom and results and discipline have improved under Bruce - he has begun to correct the mess and needs time to see it thru . whilst not great we have won 10 times under Bruce in 25 games whereas we had won 2 in 25 before he came. Edited March 9, 2017 by Eastie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 11 minutes ago, JE- said: I don't need to defend my position.. Our league position does that for me and yet you said you would have been happier with RDM to remain in charge, a man that had us in a much lower league position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 33 minutes ago, Eastie said: He was brought in to get us up as soon as possible - given the fact we won 1 iN 11 at the start it was always more likely to be next season than this season - if we don't go up next season then no doubt he will have failed- I think we all know promotion is the aim next season and nothing less will be acceptable. The 1 win in 11 where only 4 of those 11 games ended in defeat coupled with the fact he had 30+ games left to build a challenge is a very weak excuse IMO he had plenty of time to turn it around and he failed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, JE- said: My main issues with the stability and patience crap quit frankly is this.. He's on a rolling contract.. If he was here for us to be 'patient' then why is he not on a 3-4 year deal? This is definately a point. Quote It's very evident that he was brought in for the short term only to get us up as quickly as possible namely this season not next season - they wanted him to get into the play offs I believe playoff were the aim and after the initial "bounce" became an expectancy for many, dare I say it, including DrT, Wyness & Round Quote Considering we are 15th i find this patience and stability talk absolutely incredible and rather a big fat excuse by the board who are now saving face I dont know, but Its not beyond the realms of possibility that Wyness & Round "persuaded" DrT to sack RDM for their man Bruce. Looking at it, it was a no brainer to give SB a crack at the time, and the first signs were good. Once it went tits up, only Bruce can be blamed for not preventing this, Wyness & Round may have possibly had brown trousers everytime they had contact with DrT. So the goalposts must be moved to save face. Quote Rdm was wanted by the owner himself and not Wyness and round... They persuaded him to sack rdm to bring in Bruce... To sack Bruce they would probably be looking at the exit door themselves.. Hence why the goal posts have moved If this is anywhere near the mark and I would be DrT, I'd be furious and on the warpath. Paying 60+mill for the club, another ?£mill on players, wages & compensation for another failing manager costing us more losses (McC) more players but more importantly valuable time hanging down at 15th in Shytsville league. I'd be doing more than my nut. The guy had his chance, started well, but completely f**** it up. Get rid Bruce Out and whoever else f****up Edited March 9, 2017 by Grasshopper 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, thabucks said: The 1 win in 11 where only 4 of those 11 games ended in defeat coupled with the fact he had 30+ games left to build a challenge is a very weak excuse IMO he had plenty of time to turn it around and he failed. He had plenty of time yes but he took over a team with one win in 19 - to expect an instant turnaround is optimistic in the extreme - I think a top 10 finish is the minimum I'd expect this season but preferably top 8 which is not beyond us. next season no excuses - promotion is a must and should we not be up in the top group come October I would expect swift action. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JE- Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) Why do people keep comparing rdm? He had hardly any time half his players were injured for half his games and he was badly unlucky in the last few mins of games... There is alot more evidence of rdm turning us around the Bruce.. Bruce lost 5 games in a row vs rdm who lost late goal in almost 5 games from winning positions Bruce benefited from this in his early stages then when he decided to brucify us with this boring 352 he put us in a relegation scrap Rdm had all the mess to sort out Bruce has it way easier Edited March 9, 2017 by JE- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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