Steve Bruce

[JE-]

5 minutes ago, srsmithusa said:

I don't think Bruce is addressing, nor has he shown the ability to address our core problem.  My difference with many who would also like to see hime out, I think, is that I very much want to be wrong, because while I think I'm right, I think there are too many at the club that are buying the excuses that are given here.  

"Things were bad when he took over" is true of every manager since MCLeish at least, if not longer.

"he didn't have his own team."  No manager in the world gets to pick whatever players he wants.  Lambert had plenty he tried to get but couldn't.  Garde never got to sign a one.  

"He had too many new players to fit in, in January" He signed them voluntarily.

"he has no other strikers to play"   He got rid of how many, in January ?  And  was playing gabby-a man who showed no concern for this club or his own waistline.

"he has too many injuries in the squad." Which of those injured for us have a history of turning matches single-handedly?  

"bad luck."  (That s appears to be the favored excuse for Huddersfield)  You make at least 90% of your own luck with preparation and intelligent positioning.  Clearly we aren't mentally prepared to finish.   

"The opponents keep getting lost cry with one shot". You don't get repeatedly beaten by one shot on goal unless you continue to be ill prepared mentally for a 90 minute match.  

The excuses, while completely inadequate, IMO, are being accepted in the name of stability.  But stably mediocre is still mediocre at best.  

Because the excuses are acceptable to many, I think we're stuck with Bruce.  For that reason. I'm desperately hoping I'm wrong about his inability to turn this around and take us forward.  COME ON YOU VILLA BOYS!!!! 

(But if Dr Tony is reading, I'm not wrong.  Better for us to replace him.).  

Bang on 

[Stevo985]

9 minutes ago, JE- said:

So one club? He left for Sunderland? Lol really.. How come they ain't had him back and Birmingham for that matter 

Two clubs. He left Birmingham for Wigan. He left Wigan for Sunderland.

Plus he wasn't sacked from Hull in the summer.

So that's 3 examples that go against your original post. I didn't bother finding any more, they may exist. I assumed 3 would be enough to show you were talking utter shite.

[kurtsimonw]

9 minutes ago, JE- said:

Show me the evidence of managerial changes causes 'instability' within a club? 

Swansea crystal Palace have had 2 and 3 managers this season alone and have improved to get out the relegation places.. Hull have improved under Silva overall also 

Absolute excuse for the board to save face on Bruce for appointing him 

Swansea's a cracking example.

You mean the club that kept a manager for a couple of years, then another manager for a couple of years, then another manager for a couple of years. A bit of stability, guiding them from the Championship to a midtable Premier League side.

Until they started changing the manager every few weeks, this season, and now find themselves in a relegation battle. Nothing at all to do with changing managers though, of course.

[kurtsimonw]

13 minutes ago, srsmithusa said:

I"he didn't have his own team."  No manager in the world gets to pick whatever players he wants.  Lambert had plenty he tried to get but couldn't.  Garde never got to sign a one. 

I don't think you know what is meant by "his team" judging by this.

[JE-]

1 minute ago, Stevo985 said:

Two clubs. He left Birmingham for Wigan. He left Wigan for Sunderland.

Plus he wasn't sacked from Hull in the summer.

So that's 3 examples that go against your original post. I didn't bother finding any more, they may exist. I assumed 3 would be enough to show you were talking utter shite.

He left Wigan for Sunderland? So did Sunderland pay compo? Why did he leave Wigan? Sorry I bet the circumstances were totally different to your first point 

And he left hull because they didn't trust him with anymore funding... Like I said in my original post 

So it's one club... Did Sunderland sack him? Yes that's right 

He's a poor manager and your constant support for him is baffling 

[kurtsimonw]

1 minute ago, JE- said:

And he left hull because they didn't trust him with anymore funding... Like I said in my original post 

Any proof for this or you just talking nonsense?

The facts point to the Hull owners being tight. Which is why they also gave Marco Silva no money to spend. Unless you think they also appointed Marco Silva, despite not trusting him.

[JE-]

1 minute ago, kurtsimonw said:

Any proof for this or you just talking nonsense?

The facts point to the Hull owners being tight. Which is why they also gave Marco Silva no money to spend. Unless you think they also appointed Marco Silva, despite not trusting him.

Silva got in players in January... 

[Tommo_b]

43 minutes ago, JE- said:

Well Bruce has achieved fck all of any value to any club he's been at.. In fact he leaves them in a bigger mess than when he went in... Consistently everytime 

Wagner is a manager destined for larger things.. Bruce is destined for fck all

Our manager is as poor as any manager of the last 7 years 

 

I don't understand the Wagner obsession, granted I do not know much about Huddersfield other then I think they had a fancy stadium build awhile back. What's the Wagner style of play, tactics, transfer history etc?

Wouldn't Gary Monk be a better choice, and he did well in the premier league. 

[kurtsimonw]

Just now, JE- said:

Silva got in players in January... 

You realise they made a transfer profit in January, yes? You really ought to do a bit of research.

[JE-]

Just now, Tommo_b said:

I don't understand the Wagner obsession, granted I do not know much about Huddersfield other then I think they had a fancy stadium build awhile back. What's the Wagner style of play, tactics, transfer history etc?

Wouldn't Gary Monk be a better choice, and he did well in the premier league. 

Many aspect.. But he purchased a load of foreign players with a net spend of 2m to be sitting in 3rd putting pressure on the top 2 every week for thst final automatic promotion spot with a club who have mostly been a league one side more than a championship 

Then you look at our strategy.. Puts it into perspective 

[JE-]

2 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said:

You realise they made a transfer profit in January, yes? You really ought to do a bit of research.

That's not the point.. He was allowed to bring in some of his own players 

Newcastle are 30m in profit and in the automatic promo slots 

We are close to 40m down and 15th 

That's me for tonight folks.. Good debate 

[kurtsimonw]

3 minutes ago, JE- said:

Many aspect.. But he purchased a load of foreign players with a net spend of 2m to be sitting in 3rd putting pressure on the top 2 every week for thst final automatic promotion spot with a club who have mostly been a league one side more than a championship 

Then you look at our strategy.. Puts it into perspective 

Ha. £2m net spend.

Brucey made a £20m profit last season and got to the Premier League. Do keep up Wagner.

[Frobisher]

12 minutes ago, JE- said:

He's a poor manager and your constant support for him is baffling 

Why are you trying to make it "Bruce lovers" vs "Bruce haters"? The discussion is far more nuanced than that. 

The guy you quoted has said on multiple occasions that Bruce has until the end of the season to prove he is up to the job. Hardly "constant support". 

[TRO]

When you are work in progress or trying to develop a team.....how can the mood change so dramatically after a reversal......unless its just those fans that never quite fancied him in the first place and are dragging their feet to support him.

This manager of ours after 6 months has a win ratio of 38.4%......the demise he has inherited is unprecedented for such a big club......the slide is unparalled.

this is a list of managers that preceded him in win ratio's

RDM 8.33%

Remi Garde 13.04%

Tim Sherwood 35.71%

Paul Lambert 29.57%

Alex McLeish 21.43%

Gerard Houllier 35.88%

Martin O'Neill 42 .11%

The next manager to get north of 40% was John Gregory.....nearly 20 years ago.

This is not any old job of taking over from a struggling previous manager, it was a poisonous cesspit of abject failure.

None of the defenders of Steve Bruce is claiming he is the messiah,, we are merely recognising the position we were in, not the most attractive of propositions and looking for a man to help repair the grave damage we have experienced.

Steve Bruce has averaged 38% win rate in his whole career and we as a club have average 41% in our whole history.

This is not a failing manager......its not one that is pulling up trees either, but I guess even if he was, that could attract dubious views too.

This rectification is not going to be as quick as some thought but we must give him a chance......and for all those Who think there is a clutch of managers, who can do better, have another glance at the list of over eight years.

There is nothing to suggest that one of these personally preferred managers that some of the fans harbour in their thoughts,would escape that list below Steve Bruce.

just remember......a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

 

Edited March 8, 2017 by TRO

[JE-]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

When you are work in progress or trying to develop a team.....how can the mood change so dramatically after a reversal......unless its just those fans that never quite fancied him in the first place and are dragging their feet to support him.

This manager of ours after 6 months has a win ratio of 38.4%......the demise he has inherited is unprecedented for such a big club......the slide is unparalled.

this is a list of managers that preceded him in win ratio's

RDM 8.33%

Remi Garde 13.04%

Tim Sherwood 35.71%

Paul Lambert 29.57%

Alex McLeish 21.43%

Gerard Houllier 35.88%

Martin O'Neill 42 .11%

The next manager to get north of 40% was John Gregory.

This is not any old job of taking over from a struggling previous manager, it was a poisonous chess pit of abject failure.

None of the defenders of Steve Bruce is claiming he is the messiah,, we are merely recognising the position we were in, not the most attractive of propositions and looking for a man to help repair the grave damage we have experienced.

Steve Bruce has averaged 38% win rate in his whole career and we as a club have average 41% in our whole history.

This is not a failing manager......its not one that is pulling up trees either, but I guess even if he was, that could attract dubious views too.

This rectification is not going to as quick as some thought but we must give him a chance......and for all those The think there is a clutch of managers, who can do better, have another glance at the list of over eight years.

There is nothing to suggest that one of these personally preferred managers that some of the fans harbour in their thoughts,would escape that list below Steve Bruce.

just remember......a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

 

Sorry just caught this 

Sorry what league were those managers in? Rdm had hardly any time also... Absolute rubbish sorry to say proves absolute nothing putting those win %... Alot of those managers managed us in the best league in the country not the fizzy pop league 

[kurtsimonw]

5 minutes ago, JE- said:

Sorry just caught this 

Sorry what league were those managers in? Rdm had hardly any time also... Absolute rubbish sorry to say proves absolute nothing putting those win %... Alot of those managers managed us in the best league in the country not the fizzy pop league 

and therefore had Premier League players, Bruce (and RdM) had Championship players.

[JE-]

Just now, kurtsimonw said:

and therefore had Premier League players, Bruce (and RdM) had Championship players.

You are joking aren't you.. 70% of lambert buys were lower league... 

Sorry this comparison is just a non starter 

[kurtsimonw]

Just now, JE- said:

You are joking aren't you.. 70% of lambert buys were lower league... 

Sorry this comparison is just a non starter 

So that's Lambert's fault for signing lower league players, is it not? Nobody forced him too. 

But technically, no. All of Lambert's players were Premier League players. They played their football in the Premier League. If you don't think they were worthy of that league, then that's a negative on those managers for signing players not good enough.

I happen to think Bruce's signings are good enough for the Championship.

[Wezbid]

33 minutes ago, JE- said:

And he left hull because they didn't trust him with anymore funding... Like I said in my original post 

 

Yeah, Hull went into the season with 12/13 fit players because they thought that was a better option. 

Or maybe the club was an absolute shambles off the pitch and the owners didn't want to spend any money hoping that the takeover would go through. 

You're simply making this up. The owners had to bring in a few players in January because nobody is taking over and they took in about £20m or so from losing Snodgrass and Livermore. 

Actually discuss things rather than make shite up to try and fit your point of view. 

Edited March 8, 2017 by Wezbid

[Grasshopper]

Having watched a few PL games of late, I can honestly say that this "Bruce's way" of playing is a million miles away.

As its a step up from here and over a number of seasons teams have been promoted and stayed up, I think we are miles behind whats needed just to get up even.

When having carte blanche I would not be choosing Bruce for our next anslaught at promotion. I'd take most of our squad, but I'd look for a manager with the balls to take the game to the opponent, dominate games and with our resources outskill and out power everyone in this league.

I cant see that coming from Bruce, only a steady grind at results culminating in not enough for 1st/2nd, the playoffs being too risky for me.

We had a bad start under RDM, the Bruce approach didnt work to get us to the playoffs, so we're just wasting time and development with the current squad under his mandate.

Now, just imagine if YOU are a manager for one moment.

You go to an interview at AVFC and are made aware of

1) our current squad - loanees possible returns

2) the good news that the owner will give you money to buy players (ie GK CB LB DM)

3) The intention that the club wants to go up next season (to the PromisedLand) and will do all it can to assist you getting there. All you have to do is get the results.

So my question is 

Anyone worth their salt (incl you) would die for such an opportunity like this wouldnt they?

Instead of spending time and brain power preparing excuses why it isnt happening, they/you would be breaking your balls to get it to happen.

So why should the club be afraid of

letting the devil you know go

oh we got an appointment wrong.

If we sacked Bruce now and went through another 2 managers but got promoted next year, who would give a f***?

So why settle for something thats not working instead of going on a quest to find the one to make it work? no matter how long it takes?

The simple fact of it all is

We cannot afford to stay in Ch

Next year is already 1 season too many.

Out with the shit

Out with Bruce his coaches, SJ/Bunn (going anyway), Hutton, Richards, Elphick, Amavi, Kozak(also going), Gaby and ALL the remnants from last years relegation.

In with a fresh new approach, Manager, staff, GK CB LB DM ST and whatever else we need. Lets just GTFO of here ASAP.

VTID

PS Just in case it isnt clear

Bruce Out