Jas10 Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Absolutely. Letting him continue would just be procrastination at this point, which ultimately results in failure... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 26 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said: Eh? He took over a squad with players that weren't his. He's now signed his players. Why would another window give him more time? Yes and his results were mostly good for the first half of those 20 games, so I'm willing to give him a bit more time due to the reason above and losing our top scorer to ACON for a few weeks. What is the big deal people make over 'players who weren't his ' ? At the top level the best Managers need pieces XYZ to fit but we are in the Championship. Yes it can make a difference but it's not a catch all excuse as it seems to have become for some. And his results with his players are WORSE !!! There are plenty of Clubs where a Manager would be slaughtered for suggesting his own transfers would cost the club any chance of promotion because of how long he would take to get results out of them !! its upside down Alice in wonderland logic for me I'm afraid. And that's leaving aside the fact that with his own players he's appeared even more clueless as to how we should play !! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 1 minute ago, terrytini said: What is the big deal people make over 'players who weren't his '? This is actually a post. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 2 hours ago, TRO said: What I saw last night i saw a Newcastle team that I was not impressed with, but they grafted off the ball better than us,particularly second half. i saw a Villa team that acquitted themselves well in the first half i saw a villa team generally concede most aerial ball....very concerning. I saw a Newcastle team who closed us down, but a villa team that only did that in the first half i saw Jedinak make a difference until he faded i saw a villa team struggle to find simple passes to their man I saw Hourihane and Lansbury a shadow of their previous selves I saw a Kodjia that looked a level above most on the field I saw a Chester and elphick who lack dominance i saw a Hogan that is not in his comfort zone and also looks a shadow of himself. I saw a newcastle team who will struggle in the prem on that showing. We have nothing to fear getting out of this league......all we have to fear for is ourselves.....we look like a team that would lose, if there was no opposition there. ps we are not losing to teams with superior technical skills.....we are being out battled. I agree with most of that. The think that most disturbed me though was 1. the complete lack of cohesion between the players especially in the second half and the way we just gave in when it was 2-0. If Newcastle had played anywhere near their best we would have lost by 4 or 5 and that is most concerning. When teams can beat us without much of a sweat when they are well below par is the worst thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 The thing that really pissed me off was seeing our new striker get a nasty injury and only one villa player going to check on him - without team spirit there is nothing - shocking. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 47 minutes ago, VillaCas said: No he gets credit for that. If his record was solely 2 points from possible 27 he'd be gone already a la RDM, but whatever good he did (and he had a large slice of good fortune in his early run) that has well run out now. We've been discussing this for months and from the off I told you that he was not the right man for us, although I had no idea that he would be as bad as this The "can't keep changing managers" is a well worn meme but each manager has to earn his right to be there for the next game and Bruce has had his chance and blown it Much more procrastination and we will see ourselves in League 1 To follow up on your Catch 22 reference “Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them" Bruce is a mediocre manager and to shake us out of our malaise we need something more than that Look I have no control over fate and I do understand your points.....But, The bolded bit does kinda fall selectively on to your side of the argument.....just as equally he could be having an unlucky spell now, but I guess that is not a mitigating factor you wish to foster. I am not going to claim that by the way.....because i think you make your own luck in the main. The "keep changing managers is a well worn theme" that some fans don't want to hear, but In my view , has valid merit. Look, you could well be right and me wrong.....That the manager is the problem....but where does that leave us......we are no more further forward in trying to find this elusive man that will cure all our ills, than we have been over the last 6-7 years. I am not claiming, to have a stronger argument than you, by the way, or all the other posters that want Steve Bruce out....I just happen to have a strong doubt in my mind that we are barking up the wrong tree pursuing that route. If he got the sack today, I would be a liar if I said that the prospect of a chance of a reversal of fortunes based entirely on hope, would not appeal to me.....believe me I am as frustrated as the next man in our present plight of performances and Results. UTV 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Eastie said: Xias silence is welcome right now - let's see where we are after the Rotherham game . i think that could well be, a defining moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USA_Villa Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I will say it again. When was the last time we scored a goal? We don't even look like scoring. We are a BAD TEAM. There is only one reason for this, and it's not stability, it's not change, it's Steve F-In Bruce. He needs to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Just now, USA_Villa said: I will say it again. When was the last time we scored a goal? A week ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 1 hour ago, terrytini said: That's a dreadful excuse. So because he decided he couldn't get anywhere with the players who were here and bought more that buys him more time ? So if he buys a load more every window it keeps buying him time ? The point of adding to the squad is to improve results and performances. He has added to the squad and both have fallen through the floor- and we're doing before the new guys arrived. Its bonkers imo to say we have to ignore the fact he's actually had over 20 games. Terry Its not a dreadful excuse, its a reason. So when he went after Hourihane, Lansbury and Hogan.....you didn't want them?.....you thought they was worse than what we had?.....is that correct? There will come a time when he will be judged, but right now maybe too soon in the light of the size of the demise over 6 years and the current level of personnel disruption. I believe most fans were happy with his additions.....so far, its not working.....but lets not divorce ourselves from the excitement of signing them particular ones just because its not working, maybe our judgment is impaired too?.....perish the thought. We can't ignore any facts, but equally ( I don't want to get all religious) what we can't see, does not always mean nothing is there.....He maybe working hard behind the scenes and if you was there to see it may say, may say.....what more can he do or say, he is saying/doing the right things its going to take time to sink in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Jas10 said: I honestly cannot fathom how any supporters or fans can stomach and allow or accept these continuing losses and abject non-performances. There isn't any reasoning for continuing like this now, all those points and arguments have fallen flat and are looking really foolish now. Forget everything else, just look at what has been happening on the pitch week after week and the body language and mood of the players and staff every time. We are in major dire straits and we just can't allow this to go on. As much as people don't want change or are afraid that it won't change things, that is irrelevant now. Change is needed (probably more than ever) and by that I mean a different manager and coaches to at least give us a chance of winning the odd game and try to avoid relegation!!! Can you actually believe we are in this position? How can anyone accept it?! - No, just no! No one can stomach it. We have had more coaches than the " National Express" Group We have been in major Dire straits for 6 Years or possibly more We have as much chance of winning as staying with it, as changing it( no more no less).....we have proved that, with successive recent managers. No one is accepting it....The manager is having sleepless nights, by his own admission.....but I guess he's not the only one, Ranieri is too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 1 minute ago, TRO said: No one can stomach it. We have had more coaches than the " National Express" Group We have been in major Dire straits for 6 Years or possibly more We have as much chance of winning as staying with it, as changing it( no more no less).....we have proved that, with successive recent managers. No one is accepting it....The manager is having sleepless nights, by his own admission.....but I guess he's not the only one, Ranieri is too. Agreed with this. If the past few years has shown us anything, it's that regularly changing managers and having each of them bring their own players in, it takes you in one direction. It's time for a bit of stability. Oh, and to give a manager more than 5 games with his players. It doesn't mean we're accepting failure, it just means we have a difference of opinion on how to get out of the current failure. Tro, myself and others believe that way is sticking with Bruce. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 He is doing a shocking job, end of story. People want to suggest that he hasn't had his players for long, but I really do not see this as much of an issue. When he first joined the club he got a tremendous response out of players who weren't 'his', as evidenced by the results. It's over a longer period of time that this has slipped away because he has not been unable to motivate them beyond the 'new manager effect', and his tactics have been increasingly exposed as poor and sub-optimal given the players we have. Funnily enough now he has some of 'his' own players in we actually look worse! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: He is doing a shocking job, end of story. People want to suggest that he hasn't had his players for long, but I really do not see this as much of an issue. When he first joined the club he got a tremendous response out of players who weren't 'his', as evidenced by the results. It's over a longer period of time that this has slipped away because he has not been unable to motivate them beyond the 'new manager effect', and his tactics have been increasingly exposed as poor and sub-optimal given the players we have. Funnily enough now he has some of 'his' own players in we actually look worse! This I agree on He brought his own players in so you would think he would have a system in place ready for them , and yet its chop or change every week.Birkir Bjarnason for instance since he joined has played in 4 positions , we already had a utility player in Bacuna for that so what was the point of the purchase ??? Infact I can't see how if your going to play a 4-3-3 that Bacuna isn't ahead of Bjarnason anyway !! Look at the midfield options we have in CM none of them have pace , or ability to run into the box there is zero balance there and yet he purchased all of them bar Jedinek. It takes time for players to get to know each other but I look at that midfield and don't think it will ever work. I think he needs something from the Derby /Bristol games or has to go with an eye on a massive game against Rotherham 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czechlad Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 2 goals scored in the last 5 matches 11 goals conceded in the last 5 matches This is godawful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 3 hours ago, hippo said: I think we should either sack him or stick with him. I disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted February 21, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 21, 2017 Blackburn just pulled the trigger on Coyle. Be interesting to see who they get in and what impact they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 1 hour ago, TRO said: No one can stomach it. We have had more coaches than the " National Express" Group We have been in major Dire straits for 6 Years or possibly more We have as much chance of winning as staying with it, as changing it( no more no less).....we have proved that, with successive recent managers. No one is accepting it....The manager is having sleepless nights, by his own admission.....but I guess he's not the only one, Ranieri is too. Sorry , but really? How can you this say with any certainty? > "We have as much chance of winning as staying with it, as changing it" Come on now, there is no way you can guarantee that. That is absurd. No one can guarantee that a different manager will not do a better job, at this point changing the management is the only potentially impactful thing that could be done. I would suggest that anyone who thinks we should just continually "wait it out" certainly is able to stomach or even accept it (due to the faint and rather unrealistic hope that things will improve, at least in the short term - there is 0 evidence of that). We are sleepwalking to relegation!! Even someone new coming in just giving us an initial lift would probably save us from the drop and definitely be better than carrying on like this. I'm not even giving any guarantees either but the least we can do is try to turn this around. At the moment there is no sign (and has t been for ages) of a win or decent performance. Getting so tired of repeating myself, it makes no sense to carry on as is, as it is further ruinous and hazardous. Forget the past for now, the present is a disaster and we need to do whatever it takes to try and avert it. Things have become that bad. We have had some terrible managerial appointments over the years, there is nothing to suggest that the right management/coaching team could not and wouldn't have done better. I'd even go so far as to say that some previous managers would have done a(n even marginally) better job than Bruce has under this owner. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Could Be Rotterdam Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I genuinely think he lost the players when he persisted with gabby in the January transfer window. I've said it before, but if I saw another person at work not even coasting by but going all out to rob a living, and a new manager came in and gave that person the most important role in the team, knowing that person's history, I would lost all respect for them. It's no different in our situation. There seems to no team spirit, no passion to push on and no understanding. The lack of understanding I can give time for, the others I can't. I still think stick with him but that could change if the next three results are as bad as the last few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, This Could Be Rotterdam said: I genuinely think he lost the players when he persisted with gabby in the January transfer window. I've said it before, but if I saw another person at work not even coasting by but going all out to rob a living, and a new manager came in and gave that person the most important role in the team, knowing that person's history, I would lost all respect for them. It's no different in our situation. There seems to no team spirit, no passion to push on and no understanding. The lack of understanding I can give time for, the others I can't. I still think stick with him but that could change if the next three results are as bad as the last few. Yeah that's the source of the problems for 20 odd other grown professional football players getting paid handsomely at a Prestigious football club. lol Edited February 21, 2017 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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